Rigging Software? Which would you prefer?

[MikeFB2764 0]

I am toying around with the idea of writing a log book program, for riggers. In fact, I am currently in the process of prototyping the application.

Before I get to far, I wanted to get an opinion from the riggers out there about the type of software that they would most likely use (if any).

The options would be:

A PC based program (Windows 2000/XP .NETv1.1) that you would load on your computer and all of the information is stored locally. Updates would need to be installed on you local machine.

A Web based application that you would access via you internet connection. All of the information is stored on the web server and all of the updates would automatically be applied to the application.

And of course, there is the option of neither and sticking with the old reliable logbook and pen.

My bias would be for a web based application due to the fact that updates would be readily available and everyone, regardless of Operating system, could use it.

What are your thoughts? Please vote!

Thanks,

Mike Garza

[PhreeZone 15]

Does'nt the FAA require paper logs?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[MikeFB2764 0]

Sort of... record of the repack is required. According to FAR Part 65:

Sec. 65.131 Records

(a) Each certificated parachute rigger shall keep a record of the packing, maintenance, and alteration of parachutes performed or supervised by him. He shall keep in that record, with respect to each parachute worked on, a statement of-

(1) Its type and make;

(2) Its serial number;

(3) The name and address of its owner;

(4) The kind and extent of the work performed;

(5) The date when and place where the work was performed; and

(6) The results of any drop tests made with it.

(b) Each person who makes a record under paragraph (a) of this section shall keep it for at least 2 years after the date it is made.

(c) Each certificated parachute rigger who packs a parachute shall write, on the parachute packing record attached to the parachute, the date and place of the packing and a notation of any defects he finds on inspection. He shall sign that record with his name and the number of his certificate.


Paragraph (a) indicates that a record must be maintained, but does not indicate or limit how the record is kept. Regardless, the software would have the capability to generate paper records on a repack or logbook basis.

Thanks for the feedback,

Mike

[mr2mk1g 10]

I would suggest you look again at the software version. Reading the regs I would anticipate any rigger being nervous about handing over control of his records to a third party. What if the server crashed and he lost that data? - would he then be liable for not keeping records of the repack?

If you market a product that allows him to have control over the data himself that worry is gone. You could have the program prompt the rigger to back up the data in a suitable manner at regular intervals to guard against data loss.

You could also have it automatically prompt to check for updates (think the way norton or windows its self does).

You may come up against the slightly nastier problem that "keep" may be legaly interpreted as meaning that the rigger must actually have possession of the data... that may be a difficult hurdle to surmount if the rigger only has access to data which stored remotely.

[BadDog 0]

Personally, I like the idea. I use an electronic logbook for my flying (in addition to the paper logbook that I keep) and my skydiving (in lieu of a paper logbook). I used to keep one for my diving as well, but since the computer didn't keep enough dives to enable me to spend a week diving in the Caribbean and then come home and download all of the dives, I gave it up in favor of paper only. As long as it has other features (search, totals by type or date range, etc.) it would be useful and would also provide a backup in case the paper logbook gets lost, stolen, or mutilated.

[councilman24 36]

I your one no vote at the moment. I don't believe a web based system would even meet the intent of the regs let alone the letter. Who's responsible for 30, 40, 50 years of storage and backup? (I've been rigging for 20 years and I'm a pup.) Electronic signatures would have to be dealt with. If the FAA has already promulgated requirements for electronic signatures then you might be ok, but the FDA still hasn't fully solved this problem. A local system is fine. In fact I use one. It's called Excel. I keep not only the 5 or 6 items from the paper log but also all the component serial numbers, DOM's, service dates, colors, etc. But, I also keep my FAA minimum paper log. It will always be compatable with new technology. Of course it may burn in a fire but so might my PC. And it fits in my rigging kit.

It something you might ask on the PIA riggers forum and I'll bring it up at the next PIA meeting in Feb. See what people think and use.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[markbaur 0]

Quote

Who's responsible for 30, 40, 50 years of storage and backup?

I read FAR 65.131(b) as requiring records to be kept for only two years. A prudent rigger might keep records longer than that, but is there a requirement to keep records until an article is no longer in service?

Mark

[councilman24 36]

No, your right. There is no other regulatory requirement that I know of. Of course if you want proof of experience for additional ratings or master ticket you might need it. And with battery changes, AAD service, various service bulletins, etc. and in the legal environment in this country (USA) I would and do chose to keep my records forever.

In some case destroying records is safer than keeping records longer than necessary. If you don't have it you can't produce it. And in this case you can cite the regulation that doesn't require you to keep them. But, the packing data card will likely be around longer than 2 years, I've had people forge my name multiple times adding up to more than two years, and so I may be held accountable for my work for longer than two years. So I guess I chose to keep them. All so, it makes great history reading.

My previous comments still stand for 2 years concidering the speed things change.

Does anybody destroy their records after two years? Hmmm maybe I'll do a poll. And bring this up at the next PIA meeting also.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[KevinMcGuire 0]

I've been running a loft in Eloy for years and I had a friend write a program for me that I use. I think it is just what youre looking for. It's Very specific to what we do. I have never seen or heard of any thing quite like it. PM me and I'll tell you more.
Kevin

[BadDog 0]

Wouldn't the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act cover the issue of the signatures?

[riggersam 0]

I've created databases for my jump and pilot log books already. I never got around to building a front-end, so I just access the tables directly. I tinkered with a rigging log book database several months ago, but never got around to entering all the historical data to make it useful. I'd like to see what you come with.

Mark

[hookitt 0]

Check this out. A friend of mine designed this. A few changes are needed but it's a brand new online program. I'll be working with her very soon to edit the content.

http://www.riggassist.com/

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[MikeFB2764 0]

Site looks good. There is also another rigging based site, aslo under development, out there:

http://www.riggingzone.com

[Wags 0]

I don't think I would ever go to a paperless logbook, but I hate to say never.

I have however made a spreadsheet to track when peoples rigs are due for repack. This works for me, as I am the only rigger in the area, and I use it so I can e-mail them when their rig is close to being due. It also gives me info on how many Cypres batteries I will need in the next few months, and when 4 & 8 year inspections are due without constantly checking each packing data card. The copy here is an old backup so most of the rigs are out of date.

If anyone wants to use this, go for it. Just don't use it as a system for determining if anyone is legal to jump, because I don't make any clam that this is at all accurate.

Blue Skies,
Wags

[jdthomas 0]

I like the idea of an electronic log, but I just don't see myself having it.
I don't do enough rigging for it to be practical. and I like having my riggers log with me.
My computer can be funny sometimes and my log book can only get lost if I loose my riggers kit.

www.greenboxphotography.com

[MikeFB2764 0]

I dont think that this type of solution would replace a rigger's logbook. It would "enhance" it.

Personally, I do like having a log book in my kit, so that I can document repacks on the spot. I see this type of application supporting the information that is being loggged.

This type of application would provide statistical information (totals and what not) of the type of work that was done. It would also provide and alert mechanism so that you would know when reserves are coming due, batteries are expiring and what not.

The intent of this software would be more information management. It would not be a replacement for a logbook.