WS WL?

[Maksimsf 0]

We all know how to figure out our canopies WL and manufacturers may recommend what needs to be flown for student, intermediate, experienced and badass, but what about WS? For Example: Shadow 3 - ease of flight 3 stars / Vampire 5 - ease of flight 3 stars

[voilsb 1]

Do you mean something like this: http://www.phoenix-fly.com/products/product_overview?

Granted, that's Phoenix Fly specific, but it sounds like exactly what you ask. Click on the suit's "Product Details" link to get a description of what they recommend as bare minimums.

Brian

[flipwithit 0]

i think he means more like what he said...wing loading. a 120lb person is going to have more suit to deal with than a 180lb person even though its the same model suit. i think he wants to hear a v5 is as good for a heavier person as a p3 is for a lighter person.

i have wandered why wing loading has never been taken into consideration with wingsuits though.

[voilsb 1]

Probably because it doesn't work that way. A 100lb person in a P3 is flying a smaller suit than a 200lb person in a P3. A 100lb person in an X3 might have a smaller suit than a 200lb person in an R-bird. You don't get to say Colugo = 15 sq ft, Swift = 8 sq ft like you can with canopies.

A more equivalent comparison is Petra vs Storm vs Triathlon rather than wingloading. Even though a 100lb jumper can load a Velo 120 at 1:1 doesn't make it an appropriate first canopy. Likewise a 220lb novice wingsuiter shouldn't be in an S-bird.

Brian

[shropshire 0]

Interesting how as you get more experienced with WS you UP-SIZE

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[WickedWingsuits 0]

voilsb

Likewise a 220lb novice wingsuiter shouldn't be in an S-bird.

Agreed but due to their weight it might be a goal for them to get to a larger suit where a lighter\smaller persons goal would be a smaller suit. By larger I don't mean HUGE.

I think the inverse is also true. A lighter jumper in a huge suit is actually trying to drive fabric with drag beyond their ideal WL.

There is such a thing as WL in wingsuits for sure and surface area\size needs to be respected just like canopy progressions should be. Just like canopies there is more to it than just sq ft. Once the tail goes below the feet such as an S Bird things suddenly can get more radical, just like a large elliptical canopy does.

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[flipwithit 0]

good post wicked.

voilsb...100lbs and 200lbs is pretty dramatic seperation...that said i know 120lb girls doing ffc in a p2 that my ~175lb frends have used for their ffc. ive laid plenty of wings on top of one another in my day...my biggest wtf moment was when my buddy's rebel who is 5'7" 160 had 95%+ the surface area the demo we received from tony which fit me fine and im 6' 190. not to mention the people that get stuff off the classifieds that they either squeeze into or fit like 50 gallon trash bags.

so if ya ask me...wing loading isnt much of an issue, but it still effects the performance of the wing and would be something fun to know. and yes ive busted out the tape measure :)

[LouDiamond 1]

I briefly spoke about this in my book in the Aerodynamics chapter. Years ago, Robert P used to post white papers on the PF website. In one of those papers I recall his speaking to the fact that at the time the "average" surface area is in the neighborhood of 15-16 sq ft which I concurred with as thats what I came up with as well. Granted the suits have gotten larger since then but generally speaking, it is safe to say that the "average" sq ft number will still be closely within those numbers. This is due simply to the constraints of the human form and the ability to add and control additional fabric/surface area. What this means is that we load our wingsuits at 10 1/2 to 12 1/2 lbs per sq ft. on "average". The key point here is to remember we are talking in "averages" across all the suit designs out there and variables involved. I say this because I know some one will measure their suit trying to determine surface area and do the math. Just keep in mind that even if your suit is bigger in surface area that all that means is the WL lbs per Sq Inch number will come down slightly.

I know someone will wonder about same model suit and small person vs big person and more material vs less material. Short answer is this, it's all relative to weight. Which should make a light go on in your head at this point. As with most topics in any online forum, we have discussed this before. I believe it was Lurch who actually played around with the incremental adding of weight based on this topic to increase ones speed in order to produce lift for BASE competitions, much in the same way swoopers add weight. And similar to swooping, there is a point where adding more weight becomes detrimental to performance, you just have to find it. I'm sure if you searched using Lurch and WL you could find his posts and conclusions, which in typical Lurch style, are quiet in depth and informative.

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[maretus 0]

LouDiamond

Years ago, Robert P used to post white papers on the PF website. In one of those papers I recall his speaking to the fact that at the time the "average" surface area is in the neighborhood of 15-16 sq ft which I concurred with as thats what I came up with as well.

Btw those white papers are still there in the "Articles" section.

http://www.phoenix-fly.com/media/articles.

The one you are referring to is the "Wingsuit flying and Basic Aerodynamics 1" where he writes "For the average person, the wingsuit wing area is 15 – 16 sqft, and the weight is 170 – 190 lbs. This gives us a wing loading of 10,5 – 12,5 lbs/sqft, ten times higher than a square canopy."

http://www.ufufreefly.com

[Maksimsf 0]

Thanks guys, good info. I'm a 6'3 260 Lbs exit weight, and just started flying my GTI. In order for me to progress properly I would like to move to P2/P3 after putting few dozens jumps on GTI, but since there is no available used suits that will fit me - I have to order brand new and then struggle selling it when I'm ready to up size. So I'm thinking about Havok/G3 as my next suit.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

Maksimsf

Thanks guys, good info. I'm a 6'3 260 Lbs exit weight, and just started flying my GTI. In order for me to progress properly I would like to move to P2/P3 after putting few dozens jumps on GTI, but since there is no available used suits that will fit me - I have to order brand new and then struggle selling it when I'm ready to up size. So I'm thinking about Havok/G3 as my next suit.

This was the main reason we started renting suits. Folks that had their eye on a larger suit but needing to invest time on smaller suits as part of a sensible progression.

We do have Extra Large Tall suits for someone of your size.

Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month.

Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com

[voilsb 1]

Maksimsf

Thanks guys, good info. I'm a 6'3 260 Lbs exit weight, and just started flying my GTI. In order for me to progress properly I would like to move to P2/P3 after putting few dozens jumps on GTI, but since there is no available used suits that will fit me - I have to order brand new and then struggle selling it when I'm ready to up size. So I'm thinking about Havok/G3 as my next suit.

If your profile's correct, I'm sure there's *SOMEONE* close-ish to your size at one of the numerous DZs there who wingsuits and might be able to help you borrow. And if that doesn't work out, by all means try renting something.

Brian

[OuttaBounZ 0]

Maksimsf

Thanks guys, good info. I'm a 6'3 260 Lbs

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