flydive 0 #1 January 28, 2013 Hey folks, What's the word on the street these days with RSL's on today's big wingsuits? Specifically, does anybody have actual incidents of RSL's making things worse in a given malfunction scenario? Old RSL/WS thread here from 2005:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1679424;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WickedWingsuits 0 #2 January 28, 2013 When you want to hear about how things with an RSL and big suit worked out just fine let me know.Summer Rental special, 5 weeks for the price of 4! That is $160 a month. Try before You Buy with Wicked Wingsuits - WingsuitRental.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #3 January 28, 2013 Though views on the use of RSL/Skyhook vary greatly within the skydive community, the general consensus is that more fatalities could have been prevented by the use than accidents have been caused. Most of out sponsored athletes have RSL/Skyhook equipped rigs, and aside from malfunctions related to entanglement with camera gear and/or CRW related activities (similar to normal skydives), we see no reason to not have an RSL connected if present. With some of the newer, large surface wingsuits from various manufacturers having an increased potential for instability on longer delays after a cutaway (legwing extentions and lower armwings going beyond the point of being collapseable, tumbling end over end after a cutaway becomes a much bigger risk) we do from PF in fact highly recommend the use of an RSL/Skyhook if present.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #4 January 28, 2013 I'm not sure I understand what RSL's have to do with wingsuits. Small wingsuit, large wingsuit, no wingsuit... an RSL is going to function the same in all of those cases. Once you are under a malfunctioning canopy, you are no longer flying a wingsuit... you're flying a malfunctioning canopy.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murf62 0 #5 January 28, 2013 Until you chop it, then with no RSL you're back in freefall, stable or otherwise still wearing your wingsuit. I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS and believe me it's not a particularly fun place to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #6 January 28, 2013 Quote I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS From what I heard, you've been unstable at most other altitudes as wellJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #7 January 28, 2013 Quote Quote I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS From what I heard, you've been unstable at most other altitudes as well ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #8 January 28, 2013 QuoteUntil you chop it, then with no RSL you're back in freefall, stable or otherwise still wearing your wingsuit. I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS and believe me it's not a particularly fun place to be. And you have the rest of your life to spend trying to get stable before deploying your reserve.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #9 January 28, 2013 I've got over 2700 wingsuit jumps and I have an RSL on my wingsuit rig. I"ve chopped two BAD spinners with it and I have not had a problem. Still, I brief both the pros and cons of it in my FFC's. If I had a Skyhook rig I would ALWAYS use it; I do not. With or without an RSL one of the things you MUST try to do prior to cutting away a main is take your legwing out of the equation. I ALWAYS teach to hook the ankles and break at the knees and try to throw yourself back onto your belly prior to pulling the cutaway handle to help prevent doing a gainer. With a "regular" RSL there is the chance that you could backloop through your deploying reserve risers if you chop from a spinner that has you on your back with your neck tied down. Personally, I throw my knee into the direction of the spin, hook my ankles, then chop. YMMV, but I doubt it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tomek13 0 #10 January 28, 2013 QuoteHey folks, What's the word on the street these days with RSL's on today's big wingsuits? Specifically, does anybody have actual incidents of RSL's making things worse in a given malfunction scenario? We had really sad incident in Poland 22 July 2012, you can read about it in this report (but in polish language): http://www.transport.gov.pl/files/0/1795437/20120845RK.pdf Wingsuiter died, he had a mulfunction on his main canopy and the next he had a big problem with his reserve - reserve conopy was still in freebag until he hit the ground. He had RSL in this jump and it did not help him, he was on his back and reserve bridle caught the camera on his helmet :-( My english is not good to explain what exactly happened in this jump but I think people should read this report and should know what happened (maybe someone can translate it). I wrote this text here because I think it may save someone's life in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #11 January 28, 2013 QuoteHe had RSL in this jump and it did not help him But it also doesnt seem to have influenced the outcome in a negative way. Either with or without an RSL, the issue seemed to be the camera mount on the helmet catching the reserve bridle. A similar big sidemounted camera (with a box on it) caused a wingsuit fatality in Holland a few months back as well, with the reserve risers getting caught behind the box (no RSL present). Sadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 0 #12 January 28, 2013 Quote Until you chop it, then with no RSL you're back in freefall, stable or otherwise still wearing your wingsuit. I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS and believe me it's not a particularly fun place to be. So from that we can take home that not having an RSL may result in a different situation after a chop depending on whether you are or are not in a wingsuit (assuming you actually "go back into freefall" after chopping a main, which I would not, depending on how you define freefall ). But, my original question was, what does having an RSL have to do with whether or not you are wearing a wingsuit? The OP asked for concrete examples of a wingsuit/RSL combo causing problems, and I doubt he will find any, but I'm more interested in what kind of hypothetical thoughts would lead one to even ask this question. I still don't understand how an RSL could even be bad in theory even with the world's largest wingsuit. I don't have an RSL because I do so many jumps with a pretty big camera setup. But otherwise I would have one for sure. Unrelated but cool story bro: I did have one chop years ago with an RSL where it actually disconnected itself when it was supposed to function (I did not realize this until after landing when I noticed the RSL still on my rig with the shackle wide open). I asked the rig manufacturer about it and they said that is a known issue with RSL shackles.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 0 #13 January 28, 2013 QuoteSadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits. Agreed.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tomek13 0 #14 January 28, 2013 I did not mean it is RSL blame. There was bad canopy choise (crossfire2 135), not much wingsuit jumps and decision to use Vampire 3. I have not much wingsuit jumps (~ 50) and I think very often about this sad situation, I am not sure what is better: use or do not use RSL with wingsuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #15 January 29, 2013 QuoteQuoteSadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits. Agreed. +1 It's a risk you take when you choose to wear a helmet. I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves.. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #16 January 30, 2013 Quote . I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves.. Chuck +1 on that too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #17 January 31, 2013 I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves.. Chuck Wrong answer Bobble-head videos are the best! IGM. Chicks dig it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #11 January 28, 2013 QuoteHe had RSL in this jump and it did not help him But it also doesnt seem to have influenced the outcome in a negative way. Either with or without an RSL, the issue seemed to be the camera mount on the helmet catching the reserve bridle. A similar big sidemounted camera (with a box on it) caused a wingsuit fatality in Holland a few months back as well, with the reserve risers getting caught behind the box (no RSL present). Sadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #12 January 28, 2013 Quote Until you chop it, then with no RSL you're back in freefall, stable or otherwise still wearing your wingsuit. I've been unstable at under 3000ft in a big WS and believe me it's not a particularly fun place to be. So from that we can take home that not having an RSL may result in a different situation after a chop depending on whether you are or are not in a wingsuit (assuming you actually "go back into freefall" after chopping a main, which I would not, depending on how you define freefall ). But, my original question was, what does having an RSL have to do with whether or not you are wearing a wingsuit? The OP asked for concrete examples of a wingsuit/RSL combo causing problems, and I doubt he will find any, but I'm more interested in what kind of hypothetical thoughts would lead one to even ask this question. I still don't understand how an RSL could even be bad in theory even with the world's largest wingsuit. I don't have an RSL because I do so many jumps with a pretty big camera setup. But otherwise I would have one for sure. Unrelated but cool story bro: I did have one chop years ago with an RSL where it actually disconnected itself when it was supposed to function (I did not realize this until after landing when I noticed the RSL still on my rig with the shackle wide open). I asked the rig manufacturer about it and they said that is a known issue with RSL shackles.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #13 January 28, 2013 QuoteSadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits. Agreed.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tomek13 0 #14 January 28, 2013 I did not mean it is RSL blame. There was bad canopy choise (crossfire2 135), not much wingsuit jumps and decision to use Vampire 3. I have not much wingsuit jumps (~ 50) and I think very often about this sad situation, I am not sure what is better: use or do not use RSL with wingsuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #15 January 29, 2013 QuoteQuoteSadly more related to cameragear (and the Skyhook RSL decission based on the use of that gear) than being related to wingsuits. Agreed. +1 It's a risk you take when you choose to wear a helmet. I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves.. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #16 January 30, 2013 Quote . I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves.. Chuck +1 on that too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #17 January 31, 2013 I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing wingsuiters with big, stupid gopro-equipped booms all over their shit so they can video themselves.. Chuck Wrong answer Bobble-head videos are the best! IGM. Chicks dig it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
