dudeman17

No, I'm thinking he could've just taken an airline flight out of SeTac heading south and just watched out the window. Just get a general idea of the terrain and the layout. My thought here is that when all of this happens, Cooper's already gone.

I think you're overthinking a bit of this Robert. This part makes sense. He's got to take off, hijack the plane and make his demands, then land somewhere to collect the money and parachutes. It's where he goes from there... If he says 'go to Mexico' and he doesn't think they'll know when he jumps, that makes for a huge search area. That makes sense. Speculating about the Federales storming the plane when it lands does not make sense, because he clearly has no intention of being on it then regardless of where he had hoped to jump. As for being familiar with the area from the air, it's possible that he made some reconnaissance flights beforehand to to check out the terrain. If you're planning to make a jump, it's certainly prudent to be at least somewhat familiar with your possible landing areas. Doesn't necessarily mean he's a local.

Check your PMs.

Are there any videos posted anywhere from the recent Cooper Con? I'd be interested to hear Mark 377's presentation.

There have been many management/ownership changes since those days, and all the facilities/buildings are different, I wouldn't expect them to have records that far back. It certainly doesn't hurt to ask, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Was kinda pleasant while it lasted. Old habits die hard, I guess...

Someone pointed this out to me: dbcooperhijack.com You guys have probably already heard of and discounted this guy, but it's an interesting read, and the guy's photo certainly resembles the sketch.

Just to clarify, that wire on the handle doesn't do anything as far as the function of the handle goes. It's not connected to anything mechanical or powered. It's just a seal on the handle. It serves two functions. One, it holds the handle in place so it doesn't move inadvertently. Between removing a door, breaking a flange, and breaking that wire, you've got to intend to move that handle. Second, in the aftermath of an incident, the broken wire tells the investigators that the handle was indeed used.

I'm not an expert, it'll be interesting to see what the ones at Quora come back with, but from what I do know about aircraft, the breakable wire on the handle simply indicates that it's an emergency use handle, not the normal operations handle.

Some questions about Hahneman and his Honduran adventure (just out of curiosity)... Do you know: What kind of parachute he jumped. Where did he get it (did he bring it or did he ask for it). What kind of terrain did he land in. How much money did he get. Why did he turn himself in.

This has been discussed on here before, so if you can find the other thread you'll see more suggestions. But yeah, know what the experience requirements are for your country and how well you meet those. Also, a question is what kind of flying do you normally do, belly or freeflying? Freeflying skills can certainly help in some instances, but it's primarily a belly flying game. Especially if you're normally a freeflyer, this is what I'd suggest: All of the above, plus - It's been said by a lot of old-schoolers, myself included, that a great training ground for AFF is 4-way. Find 3 like-minded people and start a 4-way team. Doesn't matter about actually competing, just practice that discipline of skydiving. You'll get current/proficient at linked exits, piece flying, close-proximity slot flying, and other belly skills that you'll use in AFF, and do so in a relaxed, fun manner that doesn't feel like you're burning a lot of money and jumps on 'training'. Then, when you're closer to taking the course, get coaching in AFF specific skills like botched exits, spin stops, rollovers and what-not. You can do some of that in the tunnel, but the tunnel negates the reality that you sometimes have to chase unruly students across the sky or through fall-rate variations. Good luck.

Haven't had a chance to listen to the Marla Vortex yet. And a quick search shows a fair amount about Marla, but not so much about her uncle other than how he relates as a possible suspect. Where was he from, and was it ever established whether he was/became a jumper? The reason I ask is, and forgive me if I'm wrong, this is a very old memory, but I seem to remember a Lynn Doyle jumping at Southern California drop zones in the early 80's. Don't remember 'Cooper' being part of his name, just Lynn Doyle, everyone just called him 'Doyle'. Would/could this be the same guy?

But the curse word on the book - was it an adjective or a verb?

The weather was kinda crappy and I had a few other things to do, so I didn't go to the dropzone this weekend. That means that by the time I go next weekend, it'll be two weeks between jumps. Man, my feet are gonna be sore from standin' on the ground so long... Anyways, I thought I'd exercise a bit of futility and throw a few cents in. Robert and Shutter, if this thread gets shut down again, I'm gonna blame YOU. The two of you constantly bickering the same crap back and forth in a public forum is embarrassing, and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. And now you want the thread trashed because you can't have the last word? How selfish and petulant is that? Seriously, you two should just get on the phone and argue about it privately. Better, you should just drop it. Apparently it's old crap and you're not going to agree. Rather than trash this thread, Meso should just ban the two of you. WHICH WOULD BE A SHAME, because the two of you are clearly long time, knowledgable researchers on the case, and your input ON THE CASE is valuable. So PLEASE... Derek's constant spamming is annoying, but at least he's got some humor about it, and it's easy to skim past. (That photo of the Sirhan Band, or whatever it was, was hilarious.) But trying to pick the needles like the latest Vortex podcast or Flyjack's contributions out of the haystack of balderdash between you two, THAT'S what is annoying. Again, gentlemen, PLEASE...

Your profile says you're an AFF-IE with 45 years in the sport. Where do levels 4 & 5 include docks? I've been an AFF-I since '90, and every school I've taught at 4's & 5's are about heading control and turns - docking comes later. Anyways, to my mind, having them use a point on the horizon for heading reference during turns makes them less dependent on us and establishes practices that they'll use on their solos. (Obviously on docking dives they would use us for that reference.) Indeed, on later levels I like to stay above and behind them. (Other than for docking), I don't want them to see me. I tell them that unless I'm giving them hand signals, just ignore me and do their thing. One, this gives them the idea that they don't need us, and two, it gives me an idea how they're gonna act when we're not there. On a side (but related) note, I always find this scenario funny: At the end of those dives I like to show up in front of them and give them a smile and a thumbs up, let them know they're doing a good job. Then I go to their side for the pull. Often they follow me. On the down side, I'm trying to get to their side so that I can watch the pull and assist if needed, and them following me makes that harder. On the UP side, that is usually their first intuitive turn. That is, they're not 'mechanically executing' a turn, they're just flying that way without thinking because that's where their attention is. It makes for a good teaching moment.

Was that considered normal/acceptable for the autoland system or was that a bug that needed to be improved?

That theory would stand to reason. If the s/n's are different then they're different. Also, I can't imagine that the FBI would give back a rig that was actually used (evidence) in the case (which includes the ones left on the plane). But a couple of questions... Is it possible that the s/n's or the data cards were erroneously mixed up with the front-mount reserve's? And, If your theory is correct, does that affect what is known about the chute that Cooper jumped with? I keep coming back to the idea of Cooper jumping a non-steerable chute and how that would affect his chances of success in the jump. If your theory is correct, is it possible that that is erroneous information?

B.A.S.E. Basically Anything, Something, Everything

Another factor not yet mentioned is climbout time. Early level AFF's often take a bit of time to get set up in the door, do the hotel checks, and exit. Early AFF's aren't usually spotting yet, but if you're taking a look, that's ok. But if you're taking your look as you get to the door, then get set up, do your hotel check, count, and exit, you likely covered a bit of ground since your 'spot'. Sounds like you're at Elsinore?

(Apparently BASEr's are TSO'd)

I have a question. How exactly did those airstairs work? I know their intended use on the ground, they lower to the ground and people go up or down them into or out of the plane. But when they were lowered in flight, would they hydraulically lower into a fixed position, or would they hang loose and move up and down with the varying airflow, factored by their weight? The reason why I ask this is, there's an integral part of this case that's never made sense to me. And that's the idea that the pilots would 'feel' it when Cooper jumped. I fly in much smaller, lighter, less powerful planes than a jetliner, and when one person jumps, you don't feel it. It's not like you're sitting on the edge of a springboard when somebody launches off it into a Triple-Lindy. Now, if those stairs floated up and down freely, and were light enough, so that when Cooper ventured out on them they lowered with his weight, then recoiled back up when he left, then I could see the pilots feeling that. But if they were in a relatively fixed position, then not so much.

I once had a round reserve zapped on exit. Intricate 4-way exit from a DC-3, my reserve ripcord got snagged by someone else's container, so I ended up under a low-performance round reserve at 12,500'. I don't remember what the winds were, but I landed about a mile, mile and a half away.

I don't think so. I'm not a pilot either, but I've got a pretty good grasp of aerodynamics. If the pilots at Quora state differently, I'll stand corrected, but... You can look up Bernoulli's law or whatever, but the operative issue is airflow over the wings, not ground speed. Take it to a theoretical extreme: If a jetliner will fly at 300, it'll fly. If it were flying into a headwind of 400, then it might have a groundspeed of 100 backwards, but if there's 300 airflow going over the wings, then it's flying. We fly in turboprops, which are much less powerful than jets. We occasionally get uppers of 50-60 at altitude. It affects the spot and how much time given between groups on exit, but the plane flies just fine.

I can certainly see this point. And if someone is hiding behind anonymity and obviously trolling, then they can certainly be discounted. But the other side of the argument, and the one I run with is this: I'm an extremely private person. I don't do facebook, twitter, instagram, or any of that social media stuff. The stuff people put on there, to me, to my life, what I'm up to is nobody's business but who I'm doing it with. I come on this site because I'm a skydiver. I read this thread because I've always been fascinated with the Cooper case. If I post a thought or an opinion, I'll usually state the reasons why I think it. If someone wants to disagree with me and state the reasons why, I'm all ears (eyes?). Does my name really make a difference? Indeed, if I did state my name, most of you wouldn't know who I am anyway, so what's the difference? I can tell you my experience. I've been jumping for over 40 years, almost 30 of those as an active, rated instructor. I've made thousands upon thousands upon thousands of jumps. Jump pretty much every week, made 16 last weekend, pretty typical for this time of year. I've jumped out of and off of a wide variety of things, into a wide variety of places. So I think I know parachuting fairly well. Again, I'm willing to state and discuss the reasoning behind my opinions, so does the spelling of my name really matter?

If the exit is from an aircraft, it is NOT a base jump. A lot of proximity flying is done from helicopters, a lot of times because there is no exit point from the cliff. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not a base jump. --- I've always thought a dam was more of a Span. It's man-made, not a natural cliff made of E. It's not a B, because a building is an occupied structure in a different, unique, urban environment. A dam is more like a bridge with a structure, and it does in fact 'span' a gorge.