Driver1

I agree. That's why you have to take Skyride's cut into account. Let's say it is 20%, and the DZ gets $160 for a $200 tandem. A group of four tandems will bring in $640. Subtract $140 to pay four TIs, $40 for four pack jobs, and your left with $460 to pay for two loads in a 182 plus the pilot. Now drop Skyride, and make it three $200 tandems, for which the DZ will collect $600. Subtract $105 for three TIs, $30 for three pack jobs and you're left with $465 to to pay for two loads in a 182 plus pilot. You reduced the number of tandems by 25%, and still made $5 more than doing four tandems for Skyride. If you happen to have two fun jumpers around, you can put them on the second load, and collect another $35. I know it's about the money. That's what I'm saying, but the money I'm looking at is the cash the DZO gives away to Skyride. Once you're in bed with them, it's easy to say that they funnel you business, so you just stay with them, but sooner or later it has to end. Do the DZOs intend to have Skyride taking a cut of their profits for the rest of their natural lives? At first it may have sounded like a good idea, but now, years later we know for sure that these guys are crooks, so now it has to end. The best way to make it sop without leaving anyone in the lurch is to make it stop all at once. It puts everyone back on a level playing field, and keeping 100% of their profits for themselves. DZO's can make more money doing less work by dealing directly with all of the prospective skydivers in their geographical area. Jim Moore down at Skydive Ky used to be in this program, now he claims he is not? Word has it he got stiffed. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

Ooopps! I did forget to mention the insurance. I almost always require it. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

I would not think a non paying demo would get the extras like smoke or pyrotechnics or any other cost incurring extras, except maybe a flag, mascot suit or something like that if they supply it. So you could say the quality may not be as good from that aspect. The paying demos would get the smoke, extra altitude, canopy stacks, down planes etc. In addition to what Billy said, The money should not have anything to do with the safety of the jump, it is the the element that we have to stay on top of, demo or not. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

The question I have is this; Can Airport Access be an issue here? Here's why I ask this. Being that Skyride/ASC has done everything they have done, and throw in all the negative media attention and the Georgia court order which they ignore, and all the other ways they have used and abused the city of Cedartown, Wouldn't Cedartown have the right to just say, "Your lease is up, go away" and not allow another DZ to come in? This refers back to what I said in the "Greed" thread about how Skyride has done detrimental harm to our sport. What's to keep the City of Cedartown from Saying, "The last Skydivers we had, trashed our town and made us look bad on a National level, so, no, Mr. (New DZO), you cannot set up a DZ here"??? Someone enlighten me here, I just don't see where Airport Access can be an issue in this case. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

I agree with you in your discontent with USPA for losing the case and letting Skyride back in, but I think you may be just a bit harsh about crucifying them. I do believe that there are a certain percentage of the BOD, RD, and EC that support Skyride, and that's sad that they support such an organization built on crime and deception, but unfortunately, it's a fact we have to live with. I will add that the title of this thread is "Greed's Effect on Skydiving", so that being pointed out, it's only appropriate that Skyride be a prime example of what Greed does to Skydiving. A certain select few love Skyride, support them through thick and thin and think Skyride in the best thing to ever happen, while the whole industry is suffering great damage, ie; the honest, hard working DZ's out there who loose thousands of dollars every week due to the deceptive websites and the sales reps connected to those sites telling the customers that DZ "A" is closed, but "Our Cedartown location" is open. And the public image of our sport is deeply tarnished because of the Skyride fraud. If Skyride were to go completely away, it would still take years for our public image to recover. I've seen plenty of forums that talk about "Skydiving is a scam" and other derivitives of that and as I read them, I see that they are written by people who got scammed by Skyride. That, my friends, is Greed's Effect on Skydiving! There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

I do recall you making that racially slanderous post that got the ASC Sucks thread locked and sent to recycle, so the way I see it, you are closer to that than I am. Besides all that, how about them Stickers in Nashville? Are they getting cleaned up? There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

You are admitting to doing that? Damn Fincher, that's a Classic! BTW, I like your new user name, snazzy! There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

What do you see as slanderous there? He merely stated that he had seen them laughing at someone for reasons that they shouldn't be laughing about. That looks more like them being their normal disrespectful selves. He's pointing out something they did, and do regularly. I'm not a lawyer, but I just don't see the slander in that statement. If anything, Chuck and Fincher would have been slandering the lady they were laughing at. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

I thought there was something about civilians jumping out of military aircraft, something to do with MWR rules and regs. And why would someone who is a civilian have to be "neat and well groomed have short hair" to attend this event? And I have always had my gear checks just before boarding the aircraft. This is an exerpt from the email that an airforce buddy sent me. Attend the mandatory pre-briefing beginning at 19:00 on 28-January-2010 at Skydive Kentucky. Present a valid photo ID. Present a valid USPA membership with B-license number or higher (or) Military ID with Military Free Fall certification (or) USPA membership with MFF. Complete a Fort Knox Parachute Club membership memo dated 28-Jan-10 Complete a Skydive Kentucky (SDKY) waiver dated 28-Jan-2010 after having watched the video waiver. Receive a gear inspection of all equipment to be used the following day. Night Jumpers - have their night gear inspected. Be neat and well groomed. No long or facial hair. Wear a rigid helmet during jumps (tandem masters and students may use soft helmets). Observe FARs and BSRs. Review Skydivers Information Manual, section 6-4 d, page 25 All jumpers must: Night Jumps - To participate in night jumps you must: Must have a flash light of a least 89 lumens. Not utilize strobes Use Chem. Lights which exhibit a NSN# and be in date. Use illuminated altimeters. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

You showed your intelligence when you made that racially derogatory post in the thread "Why ASC Sucks" that got locked. Yep, I saw it as did a bunch of others before the moderator locked and thrashed it. I guess the Cary way hs rubbed off on you as well... I do have a question for you Cary supporters, Where do you plan to jump when the authorities finally catch up with Cary and his companies and your DZ's get shut down? I know of several DZO's in the Indiana/Illinois area that would laugh in your face if you try to get hired up here! There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

Please allow me to refresh some recent advice that I offered, I strongly recommend that you and your AST/ASC/Skyride friends urgently seek the counciling of your local Denial Crisis Center. I'm sure you can find a "location near you" and if you are interested, they may even offer extra altitude for a small fee and don't forget to rent the pilot chute just for safety. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

That's exactly what I was saying. The roadside sign thing, even though was deceptive and shitted on another DZ, In my opinion, it does not compare to their web pages. For example, refer back to the most recent news report from FOX Atlanta, They still have websites that are advertising to have Skydiving in Kansas, but they admitted themselves that they don't have a location there and no one takes their gift certificates and it looks like they have no intention of correcting that. Even after the Georgia Supreme court ordered them to quit doing that,,, well,, There you have it. I don't think they know how to run a business in an honest fashion. Basically, all those web pages are shitting on each and every DZ in America just as the signs did. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

If you guys showed up at Clarksville in March of '08 and of course got kicked out and moved to Waverly, and your DZM has took $100 out of the register every weekend, that would surely be at least 7 or 8 thousand by now. Have you ever seen how pissed Cary gets when he loses money for any reason? It's not pretty! There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

ASC started the whole 1 800 Skyride mess. They started the fake web pages in other states and giving the appearance of being in every state, then spawmed Skyride and scammed soo much money out of Alabama that they forced Pell City in to closing, then they opened up a couple of other dz's and continued the scamming. Where's is going to end? There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

Haven't heard anything on that, but if true, what a double whammy that would be, facing possible eviction from both Cedartown and Waverly locations. Wow... If the Airport management of either airport has any morals at all, they would kick their asses out! There's enough information available to build a rock solid case to do that because of their scam, fraud and deception and the other bullshit. I don't think that the Airport defense fund will defend them if the Airports don't want to be affiliated with a company who uses fraud and deception as their way of doing business. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

Exactly There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

After further review of that video, I have come to the conclusion that the AFF Instructor in that video is Jeff Fincher. One easy way to tell is the name "Cletus" on his helmet. He's the only one I have seen that has that. And when it shows the load boarding the aircraft, just for a split second, The person doing the video scans over and gets Fincher in the video wearing the same jumpsuit and has that ski-mask on his head. Where's his student at that point? Looks like about 30 ft. behind him in the blue jumpsuit. Almost looks like he intended of doing all of his teaching after the jump. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

Well said, and you are absolutely correct! There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

I actually added that as a signature after Bdashe called the customers in the Nashville news story Bitches", "Morons" and "Retards" because they were pissed that they got scammed by 1 800 Skyride! As if those customers are supposed to get scammed, not get a refund , don't have any right to voice their opinion and are supposed to like it. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

I can't help but to think of how long it took that guy to get righted from that funnel. That may have burnt up some altitude that could have been used for valuable student training. And what did happen to the gear check? That instructor had a lot of opportunity to catch that riser cover and toggle, I mean it was right there smiling and waving at him. geez! There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

Boy, that sounds like dedication? And it's believe, not beleive There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

Read his post again One in the same. After Chuck AND Berger showed up in court together, I have not seen anyone trying to use that lame assed excuse that they are separate entities. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

What "threat" was there? Did I miss something? I think he merely asked if you still have your Hawks. Looks like friendly conversation to me. To the contrary, it does appear the you threatened him without just cause. And wouldn't videoing the Chicken jumps be the same as participating in or at least promoting or exploiting cruelty to animals? Nobody accused you of that, You admitted it yourself dude! There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

This is a PM from Jeff Fincher that was in my inbox when I returned from the holidays. I tried to reply, but apparently he has his settings set to not accept messages, so I will respond here. My response is below the message. From: fincher Date Sent: Dec 30, 2009, 9:53 AM just wanted to say that its a little wierd how much you and your friends stalk me. I am keeping good records in case i need it for future legal actions. I'm sorry you dont agree with my style or judgement when it comes to tandems but my decisions are based off my experiences and ideas on safety. I am comfortable and competent with that exit. It promotes a student arch and is never more than 90 degrees from relative wind. Its almost exactly like poised exit except for the initial 90 degree rotation. If student doesnt arch it is same result as a poised exit with a non arching student. Tandems are about awareness and action. Sorry you dont understand the physics like I do. Everthing I do has reason and is calculated. Just because you dont understand doesnt mean it doesnt make sense. Now please stop stalking me and at least get your info right. I know you guys twisted that cat aids thing into something it wasnt and I'm not sure why you guys keep saying I jump with animals????? Thats a rumor that you guys started and believe. Show me where im responsible for jumping with any live animal??? Furthermore if you have problem with me quite being a weasel and a bitch, just confront me in person or arrange a meeting with me. I will be glad to meet you to work out your issues, otherwise I would appreciate you staying the fuck out of my business. That goes for your insane friends too. thank you, Jeff i'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down see you in hell bitches (My response) 1. Nobody is stalking you, as I have said before, you have made yourself "the face of 1 800 Skyride" and you are stuck with the burden of catching their shit. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. 2. Don't allow yourself to be in a "legal" situation and you won't have to worry about keeping records. 3. These links will assist you with your infinite knowledge of Tandems, http://www.uspa.org/SIM.aspx, http://www.uspa.org/AboutSkydiving/FAAUSPA/FARs/tabid/205/Default.aspx, or if those don't help, maybe you should consult your Instructional Rating Manual. In addition, there's some informative sections in all those publications that cover cloud clearances. 4. As for twisting the Cat Aids thing, NOT SO! Your DZ's own website had it posted before the event and after it on there that you guys "Raised a great deal of money for the Clarksville Humane Society". Now I can't help it if the Clarksville Humane Society got wind of your boogie, joke or not, they saw it on your own websites AND your Myspace/Facebook profiles, and was able to go after the involved parties. Again, if you can't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen! 5. As for your last paragraph about arranging a meeting, that somewhat sounds like a threat or something, but I'm sure you will come back and say that was a joke as well. And "My Friends" may be insane, but at least they are not in denial! If you would be interested, I will be glad to look up the nearest "Denial Crisis Center", I'm sure there's "A location near you" because they have a National chain of them! Just give me your credit card information so I can charge a cancellation fee, weather insurance fee, and oh, let's not forget the all important Airport Landing fee for the BIG airplane. And what benefit is there to burning down someone's packing tent? And finally, as for "See you in hell bitches", I guess it takes one to know one????? There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

I'm gonna carry it off topic for a second to point out the backflip that was done at about 3 seconds off the door and came out at about 11 seconds when the drogue was thrown. I thought there was some kind of a five second rule about throwing the drogue. **Note to Mods** This part may need to be carried over to the Tandem Backflip thread if it drags out very far. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!