danielcroft

In the sky, you have a rig on, you might die, you have no points of reference (most of the time) other than people who are also moving and you have to open and fly a parachute at some point if you'd like to try to skydive more than once. There's a big head game going on. In the tunnel, you might hit a wall which *may* lead to an injury and you're spending a bunch of money in a short period of time. It's like transposing music from one key to another, is pretty similar and it seems the same but it's not just a simple cut and paste.

dq, true dat, breaux. Here's the first landing (17-49-41), my pattern was really shit #FAIL but turned around at the last second and swooped the other direction https://vimeo.com/142103153. Landing starts at 2:47 (high pull). Here's the second landing (19-19-04), as a plus, you get to see me fall on my face after I tripped on a mound of dirt #FAIL https://vimeo.com/142103512. Landing starts @ 1:44. I watch my jumps, review my landings and check my flysight data for all my jumps; usually more than once. #NerdAlert

I get that in a lot of mine as well, something I'm trying to work out. The thing to check there is dive angle, you'll find you're leveling out on your turn at that point. You should be able to identify what part of your technique is causing that with some coaching or at least, outside video. After getting some coaching recently, I've changed my turn around a bit but still bedding that in, to be honest. Two of mine attached here (I keep them all so, I have A LOT - I also have inside video) one is bad pattern followed by an ok turn. Check the roll out time and you'll see that I'm in the range I'm looking for which is nice but messy on the top end doesn't help. The other is a better looking turn but you can see the affect of the longer rollout in the difference between max vertical and horizontal speeds. 10ish mph is fine for me since I'm not trying to be a competition swooper. I'm aiming for a 3.5/4 second rollout. My turn height is defined by how long I can actually stretch the turn out, i.e. if I don't go as slow as I possibly can on the top 180º, I'm high and so my rollout is longer and my on the deck speed suffers for that. I start in half-ish brakes (yep, should be exact but #REASONS) 3 second lead in from 850 *aiming* for a 2.5 second first 90º, 1.5 second, second 90º and then whip around the last 90º. Doesn't always happen, obviously and I'm usually free falling, not hop and pops. VK79 @ 2.2. I'm certainly not an expert in this arena and started doing 270ºs in a pretty sub-optimal way. I've recently got coaching (270º specific, I've done other coaching) which was pretty helpful but not a whole lot of changes, just to not pause between the first 180º and whip. Basically, just do what I'm doing but suck less. When I look at my flysight data, I check the dive angle, rollout time and difference between max vertical and max horizontal. I look at how I'm building speed and work towards minimizing that drop that you see as well but I honestly feel like it's a function of the way I'm doing my turn. I check that those lines are nice and smooth, as well.

http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/files/Man_SCM_2015.pdf There's an effort afoot to get MFS added to other country's events but they're going to need to add a couple of rounds for it to be acceptable for worlds so, that means a bigger pool... You'll find the pool for MFS Open on page 145 (chapter 9 page 34), it's slightly different from the MFS Advanced pool which doesn't include the flat points (for now, lol) and which also excludes a few of the other points (sole to sole, hu round, etc.).

The problem is that even when you get to a point where you can safely start working on 90ºs once you've got your double fronts dialed in doesn't mean that your 90ºs are going to be any good. If you're "doing it right", learning double fronts will teach you your swoop technique from the top down, which is what you need to be learning and what your wing's recovery arc looks like. The top end (which is dependent on *how* you're learning high performance landings, there are different ways) includes pattern, pre swoop flight mode, initiation, etc, etc. Ideally you're not changing any of that when progressing from double fronts to 90ºs. For example, you might fly in half or quarter brakes then, at the correct altitude (you should definitely have audibles while you're learning your sight picture) you let up your brakes, as you wing recovers from braked flight and surges forward, you follow it forward, pulling your front risers down smoothly. Once down you hold them for "X" amount of time (something an experienced coach should be able to help you with, I personally use a flysight) and then proceed with whatever turn you're doing. When you have that working consistently, switching to some other degree of rotation will mean adding that to your top end that you've already got worked out. If you're not getting coaching and/or advice from someone who knows what they're talking about, figuring out on your own the very important numbers that I deliberately left out of this post can be dangerous. The video the OP posted shows what *might* be a consistent top end but one that most people would agree isn't going to result in much performance.

As mentioned, get more canopy coaching on the wing you have (sounds like you already have that organized, which is good) as that will not only provide you with an opportunity to learn but also some advice about how to proceed. When you say "mess with front riser turns" it suggests that you're trying random stuff and aren't really taking a structured approach which can lead to serious problems. Regardless of what you're flying, not respecting your wing is a good way to get hurt. You might have just said it that way for laughs but, remember, when you're online, no one hears how you're saying it so, try to be specific. To your question, based on your profile and posts, you definitely want to be on a wing like that right now. You can talk about a short recovery arc but, the real advantage to your wing is it has a positive recovery cycle. If you're low, and you drop your risers on a Safire 2 / Sabre 2 / etc. they recover positively, meaning that they will help you if you make a mistake, of course, you can't rely on that but it's a helping hand. The short recovery arc will definitely have you initiating lower but you're really only trying to learn what that looks like and, how and (more importantly) when to bail. Having a wing like a Katana (for example) which doesn't have a positive recovery cycle means that you *HAVE* to bail properly, and soon, or you'll get hurt. Elliptical wings bring with them another set of considerations; roll rate, sensitivity, etc so, they require more precision. As you start progressing with some more canopy coaching, your coaches will guide you on when you might be ready to change planforms but, until then, you're really getting ahead of yourself. Will you learn bad habits from flying this wing? Sure but, "bad habits" are really only things people do when they're not paying attention. You don't have that luxury (nor do I) so don't look for "reasons" to change to a more advanced wing. I think the "bad habits" that people think they'll learn are turning too low but, if you change to a different wing and keep doing your same turn, that's not a habit, that's just being reckless. If you don't have someone at your local DZ helping you, you really should find someone respected at your DZ to help out rather than just "trying stuff". When it comes to the wing (and loading) you're on right now, the fact that you've taken canopy courses already and, definitely sound like you're focussed on your wing, are mitigating factors but don't kid yourself into thinking that you're gtg because it's not an advanced wing. You're making the grown ass person decision to be in (at best) the upper limit of wing performance for your experience so, take grown ass person responsibility for that and do it right.

#SliderHipster

The competition wing Fluid have been working on is called (for now?) the "HK", short for "Hooker", I believe. There have been prototypes in testing for a while but this should be the competitor to the Peregrine and Petra.

On the subject of new, there are several new AADs coming on the market... c-mode cypres vigil extreme (it's extreme!) etc.

Not worth it; downsize to sub 100 crossbraced canopy and start doing at least a 450º turn /sarcasm #SoFPiDaRF Serious answer: it's always worth investing time into your canopy skills IMO

It looks like I'm going to be freefly load organizing at Elsinore on Saturday, if you're around, come out and say hi. :-)

YAY!

Thank you, sir.

Hey Guys, If you wouldn't mind, when you get a chance, could you please update the list of main canopies in the profile gear section? Missing the Valkyrie and Helix. Thanks, Dan

You should see the epic fail in some of my gSwoop plots... "ass" is too good for me.

So, as far as gswoop is concerned you're literally swooping like ass?

My issue (beyond going too fast in the top end, which is true for whichever wing I fly... lol), was more that, once I finish the whip around at the end, the recovery from that was relatively a lot faster than VK or Leia for me. If you jump the Helix, you have the perfect excuse for poor performances: "I haven't dialed this wing in yet"... Let me know if you get the yellow one, the 79 I had was serial number "0009". :D

There are so many assumptions in this, it's difficult to really understand the point you're trying to make. The implication is that the presence of a good LO removes the chance for poor decision making on the part of participants is just false. Who's to say that the newer LO didn't dirt dive a lot, hammer in canopy safety, etc. and the jumpers just didn't follow direction? The point here is that an LO should do all of these things but experience LOing doesn't remove the human factor, ego and all the other issues that can lead to the problems identified here. An experienced LO is much more likely able to identify issues, potential issues and, avoid those problems but explaining them well, planning jumps appropriate for the participant's skill level and, probably do a better job. Claiming that the list above can all be attributed to an LO really only tells half the story at best. It doesn't take Andy Malchiodi or Luis Prinetto to tell someone to follow the DZ landing rules, to fly a safe pattern, etc. I've had my own exits go poorly, sometimes it's my fault, sometimes it's "us". If you're LOing people who don't understand how to fly a pattern, or respect other people in the sky then it's on the LO to say something but it's not the LO's responsibility. You can tell that person they're not jumping with the group anymore and that's about it. Serious safety issues should be reported to the appropriate person at the DZ - that's why dropzones have briefings and S&TAs. I don't feel that it's my responsibility to explain the basics to people who *should* already know them, I do anyway but, the point is that people who can be LOed in a group should have those requisite skills to begin with, a LO can't be held responsible for someone else's actions on their own. Note I didn't say "shouldn't" I said "can't" because I'm not in control of your canopy or your decision making. TL:DR I don't agree at all, sometimes exits and time in the door can be attributed to an LO not doing what they should but I can't imagine why anyone would want to point the finger at an LO for jumpers not following the DZ mandated safety rules regarding landing. I really wish I could unsubscribe from this thread, it's pretty ridiculous.

Very likely, hence why I'm always saying I'm no expert. If my dive angle was closer to 90º on the final whip, I'd probably find the recovery a little more in line with the VK but I think the over all point is, for me, I found the Helix harder to be consistently mediocre on. And for me, I always turned the VK at the same altitude as the VC, just assumed I was getting it wrong when it didn't work as well. I didn't think that the roll rate was the issue for me, but it depends on how you're doing your turn, right? I feel like the roll rate increase from these wings will not only bring you around faster but also increase your dive angle, no? I guess if you're maximizing your dive angle then it's not as much of a change but I know I'm not thanks to the flysight. HA HA HA, so true. I'd suggest avoiding that with the Helix but, you're a grown ass man... I'm really stoked to have the chance to jump all these wings in the same sizes to see what they're like and I think my experience is useful for people who aren't CP focussed but much less so for people who are. It comes down the the Helix openings and required precision and, the Leia's lack of stopping power. I can say confidently that the VK is a better wing for me and why but that may not be true for others.

TL:DR The Helix is shorter for sure. To me (again, I'm not a CP guy, I'm a fun jumper who swoops... poorly ), the Helix feels similar at the start of the recovery arc and then often surprises me at how quickly it recovers in the bottom end. I attribute this to inexperience with the wing, firstly but also with it being a faster recovery arc than either the VK or Leia. Both of those wings felt relatively familiar to my VC84 (when considering the downsize/loading) whereas the Helix feels quite different. I have done about 10 jumps on a VC79 which is really only enough to know what it tastes like but added to the 250 or so I have on the VC84, I feel like I was getting an accurate flavor. I'd love to see what you think about it once you've had a chance to jump it. Most of the people I know who've jumped it rave about the openings (I'd agree, with the qualification that it requires non-OCD pack jobs or a better pilot than me) and enjoy the way it flies. I have a friend who has heaps more jumps than me who put a few on the Helix. He normally jumps a VE75 (might be a VC, I don't remember) and his impressions and mine were on par except that he loved the openings from the get go but he trash packs (in his words). Given that he and I are among the very few who've jumped all three, I'm really interested to see what other people think and how they compare these wings.

Well, I've sent the Helix back to Fluid Wings. Once I adjusted the way I was packing to promote a faster opening, the wing opened very nicely and was quite controllable. In flight, it's a lot of fun and very responsive, certainly on the same level as the VK and Leia. I'd say it lands more like the Leia but with a shorter recovery arc. The shorter recovery arc requires more precision that I'm not super good at providing the wing. Rears feel strong when you get it right, although it doesn't shut down as well as the VK for me. I'd say the Leia and VK are more similar than the Helix and VK in terms of the way they fly so, if you've been considering a wing in this category and feel that the Leia suits you better, you'd be doing yourself a huge disservice in NOT demoing the Helix. I love flying different wings so, I'd say the same even if you preferred the VK to the Leia but, you know, you're all grown ass people. For me, keeping in mind the limited experience I have on the Leia and Helix, I'd probably have to say I'd take a Leia over the Helix because I seemed to gel with it a little easier but I don't feel like the Helix is worse by any means and, people sensitive to faster openings should put the Helix at the top of their list, IMO. If I factor in the wait times on the Leia, I'd *actually* order a Helix. YMMV.

Yeah, reload solved it but I have the latest non-beta firmware already so I didn't end up installing anything.

503 "Service unavailable" when I try to get the latest firmware by clicking the link.

It's clean coming off the rings for sure and it's not prone to the VK's slider hang ups which is good but I'd say the Fluid Wings slider takes me twice as long to attach than my VK slider. I've learnt to pack nice, slow openings to make up for the RDS slidered VC (that's why PD doesn't recommend it, I'd say) and have dialed that back a little for the VK (and, as it turns out, the Leia as well). Like I said, I'm not a fan of high performance wings opening that slow but, it's certainly really fun to fly once it's open. The guys at Fluid did a great job.

Helix 79 RDS slider / VK79 RDS slider / Hybrid Leia (HL) 79 RDS slider - 2.2:1 TL:DR The openings on the Helix are significantly slower than either the VK or HL so, for people who want slower opening in this level of wing (with a removable slider) the Helix definitely is a good option. For me, the VK and HL are about the same in this regard. Flight characteristics of the Helix: it feels smaller than the VK79 and HL79 and is very responsive to harness and riser input. Rear riser barrel rolls work! Yes! Landings (I'm doing 270ºs at a field elevation of ~1300ft - Skydive Elsinore): To me, the Helix feels pretty similar to the HL in terms of having super power rear risers but has a shorter recovery arc than either the VK or HL. The VK still shuts down better than either the HL or Helix - YMMV. RDS slider attachment is awkward and takes more time than either VK or HL. The openings, for me, are a little slow and have a tendency to go off heading. I'm in the habit of packing slow because I jump RDS slider PD canopies (yep, not recommended) but the Helix opens slow enough that I need to pack faster openings. I'll update at some point and I still have the demo Helix for a bit longer and need to test out the faster opening pack jobs. Happy to answer questions if peeps have them, remember though that I'm no CP guy so I'm not pushing for tenths or meters, just smooth, consistent stand up landings. https://vimeo.com/album/3515955