Deisel

*BUMP* Does anyone know of any PRO rating courses now that Jim Wallace has closed up? Any on the east coast? D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Professionalism. Anything less can get the both of you killed. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Sorry to see such closed mindedness at a supposed place of higher learning. But the ball's in your court. Are you going to accept this as the final word or continue to push it? Trust me, she doesn't have the absolute last say on what does or doesn't happen on the campus. Find someone more influentual that's friendly to the cause and continue to push. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Keep squeaking The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Bingo! We have a winner! While I don't agree with everything you said, I do agree with the base solution you cite. The standardization of continuing education would be the single biggest improvement to our student programs that can be made. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Please immediately stop trying to get answers to emergencies on the internet. It may get you killed or seriously injured. There are very good reasons that you have been trained the way you were. Once you build some experience, feel free to question all you like. For now, follow the procedures and continue to learn. These are questions for your instructors. If someone is telling you something different than your instructors, they are irresponsible. Seriously. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Great point about complacency – it kills. I jump at a tandem factory with a total of 8 jumpers. We have our process dialed in tight from working it all summer. Everything is buttery smooth at this point. But in the last week and a half we’ve had 3 chops and several canopy conflicts low in the pattern with one resulting in a last minute change of direction that sent a tandem into the high brush. But right along with complacency we also have to worry about burn out. Especially for instructors that are at seasonal DZs and hitting it hard before the winter comes. It’s easy to wear yourself out and not know it. If you’ve never experienced burnout before the warning signs can be very difficult to recognize. Please keep an eye on each other. Watch your buddy for signs of slowing down and loss of sharpness. Day dreaming and forgetting simple things can be indicators as well. D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

I've been convinced that every small business should have a good working relationship with a good lawyer. Just in terms of building a rapport with someone that understands your business and industry so in the event that you actually need their services, you arent trying to explain the difference between tandems and AFF, high vs low altitude hop and pop, wingsuits etc. So I'm looking to get some opinions on which specialty type of lawyer makes more sense for a DZ to consult. A small business or aviation centric lawyer? Or does it really matter? Any other considerations specific to skydiving any of you DZO/Ms may have come accross? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

A coach is typically a newer jumper working towards getting more advanced ratings. Not a fully rated instructor that can do other things. Most I's that I know don't do much coaching and leave it to the younger guys working on their teaching skills. If the rating holders are doing the coach jumps, how do the new guys get the experience to become I's? One of the good things about the coach program is that a coach with 100-200 jumps can relate to a new jumper much better than the old farts. That means the student s more comfortable, which is a good thing. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Well understand that there will be reactions accross the spectrum. Just as people are drawn to different interests for different reasons, the opposite is true as well. There will always be a group of folks that have an emotional reaction of sorts. And for people that just can't understand why I would intentionally throw myself out of a perfectly good airplane, I usually respond with something like - why is it that you can watch dudes make left turns for 5 hours? To each their own, I say. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

I disagree with the entire concept of showing up already trained. If you want to learn something, you go to school. Where exactly is AFFI school? There should be somewhere that individuals can go to receive proper training and education. Why is that no disagreeable in this sport? Seems to be the standard everywhere else. And without standard training the result is multiple interpretations of what the standard should be. Kind of how it is right now. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Being paid has nothing whatsoever to do with teaching. I have never taken a dime for a coach jump and have done plenty of em. And it was actually DZ policy where i did most of my coaching, that coaches don't get paid. It's old school thinking but it's how the DZO does business. And it bothers me that money continues to be associated with teaching. It is a byproduct of business and completely irrelevant here. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Hey Michael, No disagreement whatsoever. My only question here is why couldn't there be an S&TA exemption for someone truly having trouble getting jumps done? Just not a blanket policy for any old RW jump to be counded as coaching. But I also think that the S&TA system needs to be revamped as well. I completely agree that coaches should be working with students. I just don't see a problem with adding some flexibility to the system for those that really need it. But of course, as with all of the ratings, there is always the possibility of abuse of the system. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Good job picking apart my reply. So what, exactly, is your answer to the problem presented? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

So this morning right after I got done pulling handles on a spinning tandem mal, this post came to mind! While not my first cutaway, it served as a good reminder to do plenty of practice flares up high. And I was high enough to do plenty of em cause I do not screw around with mals. 5 seconds and my decision is made. Choppity chop and deal with the DZO later. He can bitch about free bags and pilot chutes, but both me and my passenger are actually standing there to listen. After a very smooth landing, by the way! The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

I don't, nor have ever heard of anyone else, use this technique. But thinking about it, sounds like it could work. But not something I want a student trying. It's counter to everything else they're taught. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Ok. So how do you accomodate the OP? A coach on a small DZ that cant get enough student jums to meet the currency requirement? IMO Theres nothing wrong with having an exception for this situation. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

I'd also recommend that you talk to the DZ first. Some schools work in conjunction with their local tunnel. At my old DZ a 6 minute flight was part of the FJC. That would also include special student prices which were only available through the DZO. The FJC instructor may also have some concerns about you going down there first. Worth mentioning at least. Good luck and have fun. D The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

In an attempt to get information out sooner than later, I'm posting what I currently have (more or less confirmed). Some of this may change a bit, but you can start planning now! I will post more details soon. TENATIVE SCHEDULE September 14, 2013 DC Skydiving Center Warrenton, Va. PAC750XL Notes – a Wounded Warrior event will be held concurrently. Come out to support and say thanks, as well as jump with fellow Marines. This event is open to all. October 19, 2013 Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures New Market, Va. Cessna 206 & 182 November 16, 2013 Skydive Orange Orange, Va. Twin Otter December 14, 2013 Virginia Skydiving Center Richmond, Va. Super King Air The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Let’s look at this from an education perspective. You must begin with where you want to end. This is what we must first agree on and how we get there is a secondary concern. The end point is an AFFI that can do what exactly? Once we answer this question, only then can it be determined the appropriate method for achieving the outcome. The discussion of ‘what should an AFFI know’ would require a new thread to fully discuss, so I’ll leave it alone for now. I happen to be a fan of how pilots are trained and maybe we should consider emulating their process. For those that aren’t familiar, a private pilot’s license can be obtained under either FAR part 61 of part 141. Briefly, part 61 is informal training with any CFI and no structured curriculum (by FAA standards). Part 141 is a structured school house environment whose curriculum is periodically reviewed by the FAA and required ‘stage checks’ throughout the training. One must pass a stage in order to proceed to the next. Graduates of both systems arrive at the FAA testing site ready to rock, but part 61 grads must have more flight hours completed in order to test out. We are currently using a very loose copy of this training system, but without any USPA oversight of anyone’s curriculum. I believe that once we decide on the specific block of knowledge needed to be an AFFI, which is very different from what knowledge is currently required to pass the course. Only then we can determine an appropriate manner in which to train them. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Yes we have schools, but as you point out they are incomplete and insufficient. I'm talking about a complete course of instruction that includes a soup to nuts cirriculum concerning all things AFF. Including the prerequisite knowledge. IMO our problem here is that we are assuming that through the completion of the needed jumps to get your rating, you gain the needed level of general skydiving knowledge. And while at one time this may have been a valid assumption, it certainly isn't today. This is why I support revamping certain aspects of the course. But it should be done in a manner that addresses what the specific shortfalls are. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Why not have an AFF Instructor school? Take a week/month (or however long needed), teach everything that AFFIs are expected to know, test & evaluate, then graduate those that make it. Isn't that how the rest or the universe does it? Why does skydiving need to be different from other education systems/models? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

The downside is that based on how this is worded, any RW jump can be considered a coach jump. If you haven't noticed, we already have a problem with padded logbooks and instructors whose skills aren't quite what they should be. This has a potential to be abused significantly. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Anyone know where to get them? Or are they mostly home made? The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

Maybe they should have just made it one of those S&TA waiverable situations. In the event that a coach is unable to jump with actual unlisenced jumpers, they can be waived to coach sub 100 jumpers. That would cover the folks at the small DZs in situations like what was mentioned earlier. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

I don't know what the rationale was here, but I can see it. Newly licensed jumpers still require plenty of teaching. If a coach is teaching them formation skydiving beyond what's in the ISP, shouldn't that still count? It meets the intent of the rating (another term that should be reexamined). But the way it's phrased is far too broad. Using this language, if you land and say 'good job', then technically it counts as a coach jump. Ripe for abuse in my opinion. The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.