Witelli

I don't know which one has a higher casualty ratio, but there's really no way to tell which is more dangerous. Let's try it this way. SKYDIVER: Has to jump from an airplane at 14,000 feet and can't pull his chute until he's at 500 feet and only 50 feet from a cliff wall. (This would be considered skydiving) BASE JUMPER: Has to jump from a 14,000 foot bridge. (This would be considered base jumping) We have just made skydiving more dangerous. That is, if you want it to be.

Thank you, this was exactly what I was looking for, the "Unobvious". Sorry if I screwed up by mentioning my student rig. I'm glad you're OK!!!

There is no confusion, I always talk to my instructor about the gear that's how I found this out. Apparently I just learned everyone something, since noone has ever heard of this. Maybe your DZ could use this type of mechanism on their student rigs, it probably is there to assist AFF instructors in that if they have to pull a students reserve he can do it from either side. I would also think it helps if a student makes a mistake in his EP's. Anyway, knowing about this doesn't change what I was taught and what I was taught doesn't include anything about this. Always red then silver in a canopy mal, I know that and practice that. Sorry to have stirred you all up. Goose: I just noticed part of a cable exposed from my left shoulder strap, and asked about it. That's the answer I got. I hope it's not something that someone at the DZ just rigged up. Since noone here has ever heard of that. I will ask what it's called and the specifics next time I go to the DZ.

Then what am I missing? Help me out here. So when I asked my instructor "What is the purpose of this cable" and he told me "that's connected to your silver handle and will cutaway the main in the event a student goes right to silver, it's only on some student rigs." Then he stressed to practice the EP's I was taught and not to think about this feature that's on only some student rigs. So you mean to tell me he made that whole thing up!?!?!?!

But how did it happen?

Wow, everybody calm down. I was taught emergency procedures and understand them. I know how to react to 2 out mals as well as high speed mals, at least I think I do, unless I missed something. Now I'm concerned. You're making it sound like EP's change with the equipment. I will definitely talk with my instructor now, I just would like some input on one question so I can bring back to him what I have heard. How does "grab red, grab silver, pull red pull silver change with student vs. normal rigs? I thought it was the same procedure. Which brings me back to my first question, I just don't see how you can have a 2 out mal if every handle on the student rigs I've mentioned cut away. Unless the Cypres fires or the reserve falls out on it's own. I never said I would rely on these gizmos or skip a step in my EP's because I had some student safety device on my rig. Am I really far off?

Being the lowtimer on this thread, I have to admit the training can cause memory overload. So I read the SIM on EP's with 2 out mals. Anyway, on a student rig it doesn't even matter, you have an RSL and I think if you pull silver only, it will release main anyway. Although they won't tell you that. So either way you shouldn't ever have a 2 out mal with these student rigs. Am I correct? Either way I'm always thinking and trying to learn how to deal as if I didn't have these extra devices. I'm not trying to hijack, I just thought maybe things aren't stressed enough because they can't really happen on student rigs, or can they?

...But never try to get back into the order?? Go last or don't go, right?

I didn't have line twists.

Good question. I've been wondering this myself. If you open up under a perfectly good canopy, what could make it turn bad? I'm very curious as well.

Congrats on dealing with everything and keeping your head on your shoulders. I'm just a student as well, so I'm just giving advice from my own experience. I still wave off at 5,500 so when I'm done doing my canopy checks, I'll be over 4,000 ft at which point I always make sure before I go up to consult my instructor about a holding area. Once I get to my holding area, I have nothing to do until about 1,500 feet when I begin my landing pattern. This helps in that you can concentrate on one thing at a time. Get to the holding area, begin downward leg, come around into the wind at predetermined altitude, concentrate on keeping legs together and landing technique, then flare and land. Your experience might have been from a bad spot, I think that's what also happened on my first AFF. I faced the DZ the whole way back and prayed, didn't even think of outs, plus I think I was holding quarter brakes the whole time which I've since learned minimizes your forward motion. Keep those toggles up to fly. Luckily, I just made it back. These forums have helped me immensely, by giving me new information to bring to my instructor. You can learn a lot here, but bring it back to your instructor before you implement anything. Enjoy the sky!!!

Thanks for clearing that up. I guess they would call those first load guys "Streamers"

I guess this might be the meat of my question. If I pass on my turn, where does that leave me? I would think I would have to go last then. Since I wouldn't want to screw anything up. Since getting out at a different time would throw everything off with openings and separation and stuff I'm not too keen on yet. So, if you pass your turn, try to go last, if you don't like it, ride the airplane down. Is that correct?

What do you mean by streamers? Never heard that before.

Awesome. Thanks again, I'm sure It'll all come together with time as does everything.

That was perfect. Thank you!!! One thing though, they say the model doesn't change speed assuming same wing loading. But glide angle might change. I'm assuming speed refers to forward speed and glide angle would increase downward speed, am I correct?

I figured upper winds would come up. But even if you knew the winds at all altitudes, how can you possibly calculate that in your head, meaning your horizontal movement in freefall and winds under canopy relative to the exit point and desired landing spot before you even leave the plane? I'm probably overthinking this as I do everything.

This question is mostly hypothetical, but I'm curious. So I'm about 220lbs at 5'10" (fatbastard) and I still rent gear, a Navigator 240. I'm not sure exactly what is my exit weight, but I'm probably close to a 1.1 wingloading. Can anyone estimate how much the gear weighs for me? Anyway, if I lost 40 pounds tonight, would I have the same canopy experience if I flew a Navigator 200 tomorrow? I think you'd probably agree that wouldn't be too much of a problem. But if I said I was going to fly a Stiletto 190, you'd probably say absolutely not. (example is off only because I don't think they make a stiletto 200 or a Navigator 190, but we can assume the Navigator and Stiletto would be the same size and wingloading) Why is wing loading such a big deal when canopy performance has so much to do with it? I saw a thread that discussed recommended wing loadings that were added to the new SIM. Could this be misleading, 'cause if you go to the PD website they have recommended exit weights and experience levels for their canopies? I'm probably asking a stupid/already discussed question and I may not have my facts straight, but I figured I'd throw it out there since I have nothing better to do. Plus, I want to learn everything I can. Thanks.

Thanks a lot Tom, you're always full of great info, I totally respect your experience. You're right that I really don't know how to spot. All I really would try to do is look straight down and assuming ground winds, I'd like to leave the plane upwind of anywhere on the DZ. I wouldn't have a clue how to spot unless I was looking straight down and I can't do that until it's my turn. It would probably take me longer to register what I'm seeing given my experience and I don't want to sit there contemplating and pissing people off. So to be honest with you I just go when it's my turn. I really like to understand things for myself. There just seems to be a lot of pressure when everyone is going out the door and I don't want to be the one to delay everything. By the way, our instructors are awesome, always looking out. My question was prompted when I was on a CASA load full of funjumpers and it was decided I should go last. I got a bit nervous. I thought LAST=FAR. But it worked out perfectly since winds were going pretty good and I got out way upwind. I just want to figure out this stuff for myself. Thanks again for all of your useful info.

Being a newbie, I want to clear up the proper etiquette for exiting. Being that I still pull high (5,000) and our airport is huge, it's not really a problem for me now. However, when I pull lower and am visiting smaller DZ's, I need to make sure my spot is really good. If it's my turn and I look out and am not confident in the spot, what do I do? Remember, you could have 20 people behind you anxious as hell to get out. I might feel pressured to go anyway. Is is OK to pull higher than you had planned and told everyone? I don't think so. Should you wait at the door until you're ready? How do you handle this? Please answer this question in 2 scenarios. You don't like the spot because there's a potential you could fall through a cloud, or you feel that with the winds, you might not be able to get back to where you want to land, the DZ.

I'll tell you. Being a kid now must suck. There's too many assholes out there nowadays endangering our kids. I don't know where they came from, but from being a parent I notice it every day. Skydiving is probably safer than letting your kid ride around the block. In the real world it seems everyone is looking out for themselves. In skydiving, I'm noticing that everyone looks out for eachother. That's one reason I love the sport.

You said it perfectly. Our children rely on our decisions to ensure their safety, not their own. Who are we to put them in harms way, when they are unknowing of the risk. But then again, I'm terrified of carnival rides. Look around the carnival and tell me you trust that those people are maintaining the equipment properly. That might not be a good example.

not "just" feel free, you should ABSOLUTELY ASK YOUR OWN INSTRUCTORS before enacting anything you read here. This is the internet. You don't know me from smack. Ask your instructor about everything and why they have the opinion they have. Sorry 1010, I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I just wanted to stress that you shouldn't be afraid to ask questions to your instructor about anything related to skydiving. If you are curious about something, feel free to ask him/her, DON'T JUST DROP IT. And, absolutely ask yor instructor before trying something you heard elsewhere. Thanks.

Well, maybe talking about it here will help someone. Maybe after reading this one of those wannabe or current AFFs will pay a little more attention to the bits in the FJC about how to PLF and holding your flare if you start too soon. Or at least ask their instructors before the same happens to them... (note - in both these examples it is the instructor who teaches!) I totally agree, I tend to flare early and my instructor would yell through the walkie talkie to hold it, and I fought with myself not to release the flare. Now it's always in my head. I think we, as students need to hear these things, but as Bigway said, we need to pass everything by our instructor before attempting to do something. Our instructors know our abilities better than anyone. Feel free to ask your instructor "I heard this, should I try it?" and take his word over what you hear here.

Try getting a video of your next jump. Then you can watch it with your instructor and the critique will be invaluable.