mdrejhon

"Does it really matter? We all know that every one of them is just a sith puppet." (Copying a quote that a Facebook friend wrote.)

I've had enough experience with big ways to have experienced quite a FEW rolls in various conditions. I've rolled automatically/instinctively in the following cases: - Crosswind (might have been downwind) landing in tall grass outside of Perris triangle, intending to slide. but caught my foot, forcing me to roll forward. Someone else on got their shoulder injured on landing during a tumble in nearly exactly the same area I landed in, and had to skip the next jump. - Zero wind landing in Perris dried mud, tripped over large loose chunk of hard dried mud at Perris (almost the size of a head), propelling me to a potential faceplant but rolled over my head succesfully. I got all dusty. The biggest ouch was from the stubbed toe. - Semi-downwind landing with cows/horses in fenced-in yard in Texas surrounded by forest (north of Spaceland). Narrowly avoided cowpies. Grassy with small bushes, tripped over a bush, and rolled almost twice. Had to jettison rig and climb barb-wire fence to escape the animals (ehm, the cows looked a little disturbed...) Tall grass, thin grass, mudflat...rolls are more risky in some situations than others, and it's nearly impossible to prevent yourself from rolling when you've got lots of forward velocity in very tall vegetation (which provides a padding opportunity anyway for a higher speed roll). High speed slides are much easier on flat/thin ground or asphalt. The nature of the jumps I do -- big ways during a bad spot, and is an outer tracking away from the drop zone at break off. And sometimes the assigned landing direction becomes downwind... Other minor injuries do happen (stretched ligament in thumb or neck, sprained ankle) from jumps with much tamer landings, or from a hard opening, etc. While I tend to run or slide a downwinder if it's easy to do so, I'm sorta conditioned to immediately PLF if my feet get caught, which often happens during a downwind landing into tall grass. (Seems to go back to the student days: I landed downwind on a Manta 288 once as a student on a very windy day too -- landed in tall grass -- tried to slide, but I got flipped over.)

riggerrob, can you compare this tunnel to Skyventure, AAC and/or Flyaway style tunnels? For skydivers, I'd imagine it's superior to Flyaway (that old tunnel in Vegas), but not as good as Skyventure, correct? Still very good, considering it's the only one remotely near Vancouver at the moment.

And Canada. But here, we go beyond the state level now. For the last several years, me and my spouse have been allowed to file taxes just like a married or co-habitated couple -- at the FEDERAL LEVEL, here in Canada. This benefits us if one of us has a higher income than the other, and want to transfer tax credits to each other.

Right, you're right about the unit confusion. THAT said -- I learned something new about the chart: That's a measuring point at the gate (which gate?). Translate the japanese to English, and the translation suggests the gate location, and even the Wikipedia graphic chart visualization of this TEPCO data uses the word "gate". According to Google Earth, the main gate to the campus of 6 reactors is more than a kilometer away. If we're getting 10 uSv/h more than a kilometer away from the reactors, I fear to think how strong the radiation is near the strongest source -- believed to be Spent Fuel Pool #4 (which is in the building furthest away from the gate!! Over 2km from the gate, I think, if I'm correct about the gate location -- I may be wrong). I don't think anybody can easily get close to #4, making cannons and helicoptor drops necessary. (water and boric acid) And, the wind seems to be consistently blowing in the opposite direction (towards sea, rather than inland towards the gate), so the plumes are not going through the gate measuring point. When all of this is considered, it's still scary.

I'm baffled by this statement. Is it a joke? I think the statement viewed the "numbers game" perspective: if everyone was strictly gay, nobody would do natural procreation, and civilization would stop. Obviously. However, I think there's a certain neglect to consider the whole picture. For example a certain percentage (say, 1%, 10%, or whatever) of something actually can help contribute/moderate/balance civilization. We're actually very productive members of society, even way back to antiquity. It happens naturally, in nature too. It doesn't just apply to gayness, either. If there were not enough or too many queen bees in the same hive, there's lots of problems too. If there were not enough fertilizer or too much fertilizer in a soil, there's lots of problems too. Etc. And, yes, it varies from species to species. (For example, lots more bisexuality among bonobo apes than among humans). Clearly, there appears to be an evolutionary reason why gayness hasn't been 100% "evolved-out". Lots of debate why and lots of disagreements (genes? population control? lack of women; to spare remaining women to survive with other men? alternate method of release of sexual tension that's different and less fight-risk versus cheating (survival of fittest by avoiding fighting with other men over few women)? Or combination of all of the above? And/or other reason? etc. etc. etc. etc.) BUT, clearly, the gayness *has not* been evolved out of existence. And clearly, not even ALL of the world's religions are against it either (to the dismay of some). Short form: Our civilization continually disagrees why gayness exists, but it exists. Accept it! The point is, we should all live with it as a natural thing!

OK, you're right -- I need to doublecheck on that portion. I'll make an edit to the original post. I just noticed that in the chart, that it says the measuring point location is "gate" (the Japan-English translation) No wonder I got confused -- that's far away from the reactors. If that's the gate to the entire complex/campus, then 11 mSv/h (11,000 uSv/h) means things are much more severe when working a fire engine pump or military water pump sitting next to the reactor building! (I think we can agree that the workers are still heroes)

Billyvon, see this: http://www.world-nuclear.org/education/ral.htm The chart shows that radiation hovered near 10,000 for almost a full hour in one specific location. An instantaneous dose versus an hour of sustained dose? There's a world of difference. Obviously, different parts of the nuclear campus would be much lower, but no wonder the emergency workers had to temporarily abandon their posts near the spikes. (which they appears to do at the time, according to news articles of events that coincided with the time of this graph) The workers are heroes -- some of them may be dying soon -- for saving Japan from Chernobyl (which it definitely isn't at this time, and optimistically probably isn't, but it's definitely far worse than Three Mile Island.)

I've been paying attention to maybe over 100 articles on this material. I think it's a nuclear disaster so far, that's escalating. Here's some material I've dug up. [This info is up to date as of noon EST on March 17th. By the time you read this, all this information may be hopelessly out of date.] Good sources include: - CHARTS at http://www.jaif.or.jp/english and click the latest Status Report. One example is the CHART CLICKY for March 17 at 22:00. Although they are not 100% in the tune, they appear to seem to be a more accurate information source than uninformed executives talking to media and government contacts. (Based on looking at these charts, I correctly deduced that spent fuel pool at #4 could become the biggest worry) - Yesterday, New York Times reporters had a great Q&A at http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/q-and-a-on-the-nuclear-crisis-in-japan/?partner=rss&emc=rss ... This Q&A answers a lot of common questions relatively more accurately than many other sites. - Although Reuters vary in accuracy, this reuters status update (read all 4 pages) is unusually good: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/17/us-japan-quake-fukushima-idUSTRE72G33Z20110317 As of this time of writing, reactor 5,6 seems safe and could be even safer once the electric line gets hooked up (almost there). Reactor 1 & 2 appears to be under control (despite damage to buildings and potentially #2's outer concrete containment shell), with parts of the damaged buildings potentially intact enough to re-electrify with new electric line. Reactor 3 & Spent Pool 4 seems too radioactive to approach and might be out of control, requiring long-distance water jets or helicoptor drops. Spent pool 4 appears to be Japan's potential Chernobyl. - Recent photo of damage to all 4 buildings (most media don't show this, yet): http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/mar/16/japan-earthquake-tsunami-nuclear-pictures The damage to the bottom halves of both building 1 & 2 is relatively minor, with some major damage at the top of building 1. Building 3 is totalled (it's also the only reactor fuelled with plutonium -- MOX fuel). Building 4 is probably totalled even though no fuel in reactor, it is presumed at least part of the pool dried out and the top of the fuel rods in the spent-fuel pool started burning, igniting the fires, and the explosion at #4, if hydrogen, may have come from flaming fuel in the spent fuel pool (which is actually not spent fuel -- fresh fuel taken out of the reactor during maintenance of #4). Recent news indicates helicoptor drops and water cannons are being focussed on #3 and #4, which seems accurate with my analysis. - [EDIT] One location at Fukushima (the gate, according to a Japan-English translation) spiked on March 15th at 9:00am to 11,930 uSv/h. Source (top of last page of PDF): http://www.tepco.co.jp/cc/press/betu11_j/images/110315g.pdf ... Wikipedia has a visualization of this official TEPCO data (the owner of the nuke plant): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fukushima_I_accident_radiation_monitoring.PNG Observe the escalating spike-decay nature of the green line. There may be mini-criticality events happening in some locations? This is worrisome -- radiation spikes may become a lot worse before it gets better, dooming at least some the 180 heroes to certain death since the spikes are getting stronger, and not all the measurement points are close to the reactors/pools. - Multiple-crisis overload: The problem in Japan is babysitting 13 potential mini-crises happening simultaneously in one location (6 reactors and 7 spent fuel pools), and when one of them throws a temper tantrum (radiation outburst) it hinders the japanese ability to fix one thing. Mega-spike of radiation, and nobody will be able to stay around to babysit #3 and #4 (and possibly not even #1 and #2) -- then we've got Chernobyl, if Spent Fuel Pool #4 goes critical. (it is common for power stations to re-rack the spent fuel pool to put the fuel closer to each other, when running out of space in the pool, and keep things in control only by boron walls between the bundles of rods. In addition, pool #4 has relatively fresh fuel -- temporarily taken out of reactor #4 during maintenance. And the damage in recent photos of buildings #3 and #4 looks severe enough on these that the pools might have sprung leaks, keeping it hard to keep filled. Now, if that pool goes dry, the boron walls disappear, and the pool has leaks making it impossible to fill, and the mass is so radioactive you can't get near to separate the fuel away from each other -- and if you paid attention to even a day nuclear physics primer in your final year of high school or any one of the university years, you can then begin to understand how risky Pool #4 is to possibly becoming Japan's Chernobyl, especially if further mistakes are made regarding resolving pool #4. P.S. I am not anti-nuclear, though very wary. More than 50% of my home's power is coming from nuclear. I am currently not opposing the nearby construction of new CANDU nuclear reactors near my current hometown, in principle, due to the far safer CANDU design (it survives better in unattended situations). That said, I hope our country learns from Japan to make nuclear even safer, and consider other alternative energy options but not coal -- I'm glad Nanticoke is shutting down. The smogs of 1989 used to be awful! (the tail end of the old Acid Rain days).

I learned two things on dropzone.com I wouldn't have quickly learned at any dropzone through normal learning channels: - Before I hit 100 jumps and was having problems afte a reline, I figured out during landing approach I need to preposition my toggles t where the brakes stops being loose and goes taut (the start of the flare band) to quickly adapt to flaring properly when switching between gears, and relines where the lines are longer then expected. - I've found, by a tip, and real life experience, that it's much faster to escape linetwists by pressing risers together, rather than pulling them apart, at least for my canopy. (Yes, really. Yes, seriously. There's a couple of big threads on this.)

Or you mean, Old Navy. But it could just as easily be any metrosexual.

Go read some of the swooping threads. Or get a wingsuit. P.S. to shah269: At 26 jumps, you have 174 jumps left!

I had the same problem. Some spamfilter was eating up my emails. I resolved this by messaging Kolla on Facebook, and posting a message in the Blue Skies Magazine Facebook group (I did both), and my subscription address mistake was promptly corrected & I got sent some issues retroactively. P.S. I do definitely dislike Skyride, but much ado about nothing in this case -- I agree with a lot of billyvon's posts on this subject matter.

Except for a few exceptions, I suspect that the number of tunnels on hold is not necessarily related to profitability. It's just that tunnels -- attract individual investors such as skydivers, who have more limited investment funds relative to Wall Street. -- are a capital-intensive project, with potential cost overrun -- can run into problems with municipal, from things such as electric supply to city ordanances, zoning. -- when cost overruns occur, it is hard to convince angel investors to pitch in, because not everyone is familiar with tunnels. --> Newark rights are tied up, I think. The upcoming Xanadu/Meadowlands mall, opening later 2011, is supposed to have iFly Meadowlands at one point. --> There's alternatively Manhattan rights, but I think the rights to the area has already been tied up too, some investors wanted to put a Skyventure on a barge parked off Manhattan. You may have to purchase rights and/or due-diligence from someone else. --> But go ahead and ask Skyventure if there is any leftover regional rights elsewhere.

Last weekend, I flew with the Lemays at Skyventure Montreal (Evolution Team Canada -- the Canadian champions). Michael Lemay phrased it in such a way that Toronto's coming soon, they certainly seemed to be "in the know".

You didn't define what "Some..." was. "Somebody?" or "Some event?" So I'll chime in. 900 miles -- roadtrip to Skydive Chicago all the way from Ottawa, Canada. It was a roundtrip too, so it was 1800 miles. 40-way camp I attended, to try to get my ambitions into a subsequent Chicago 100-way (didn't succeed on that, but my effort was recognized!). I eggshelled the gas, so got me 23mpg in an old Jeep I got for $1200

Yes, most of your points are good ones. It will likely take fewer catchup camps for a previous 400-way world team member to get invited. That will definitely happen in many cases. That said, one or two bad impressions -- and oops. I saw a few past record holders not get invited to an event I attended -- they applied and didn't get in. So clearly, it seems to happen from time to time. (Yes, it is likely just a simply a combination of a a currency issue and lack of "face time" in front of specific big way organizers they don't jump as often with). I did get declined from CSR, TSR and the SQ1-200, while I did get accepted into MWR, 2009 Kaleidoscope, ZTeam 2010, Canadian Record. It is important to stay current further in advance and put your face in front of more organizers more often, to maximize your chances. That said, there's MORE onus on the new ones to "show their stuff"... And you got it right on about peaking at the right time. Arguably, the P3 regular that attends 4X as many big way events (there are some out there now -- I'm seeing a few P3 regular friends who jump way more often than I do, attend 2 events a month that involve 16-way to 200-ways, ranging from 16-way speed sequentials) will have plenty of opportunities to out-peak. They are the ones who got invited to TSR, CSR, SQ1-200 (which I didn't get accepted to) -- they weren't even skydivers yet in 2006 when that 400-way world record happened. Some of these P3 regular friends outranked in the selection process over some higher-jump-numbered world team members. (Granted, one did 900ish SELF-PAID non job jumps in one year and attended more than half a dozen P3 events in a year! And is a 4-way team member at their home dropzone, and probably has triple digit tunnel time by now) They will outrank certain high numbered-jump world team members who even revisit a P3 camp 2 or 3 times because of the sheer simple currency overwhelming -- not all world team members are THAT current, who can compete with a P3 regular who has something like 900 self-paid RW jumps a year with a hundred of hours of 4-way tunnel, to something I lost count of, something like over 2000 RW jumps since they started just three years ago or so? (but you and I also agree on that point of currency anyway). This is just a friend I know. There are others. I saw 3 members who I don't remember the names of, of a 4-way team come from a eastern europe country (I dont know how many jumps each, but they were the national team for their own country), and pretty much aced one of the Perris events on the first try, much better than I did at my first Perris event back in May '08. Certianly, it is expensive for those people. (Lucky SOB's!) No matter if you are a new pup or a world team member, you got to have face time and sky time... Nobody can get complacent. Currency considerations aside, there is no argument that the onus is much higher on young pups (And people like me) who needs to work harder at staying big way current, to compensate for our lack of World Team or other massive record experience. That said, there appears to be a few past record members who will lose out because they did not attend a specific camp (i.e. Dubai 500 requiring at least one attendance to a P3 event in most cases). Some will just need to be patient enough to endure one "camp" and mesh into the P3 vibe. And if they are not into that, then some other young pup (or me) might step one slot up on the list of potential candidates for the last few slots on that 500-way. The ones that are patient enough, are the ones who listen through the video debriefs, and are willing to learn new things, even if they are already highly experienced. I suspect there was some dissapointment by some world team members in P3, since sometimes it happens that some of them are not accepted at say, a TSR or CSR or JFTC or even simply Canadian Record. Someone said they don't want to go to a "camp" and watch others funnel. (Yes, I got that by someone else in PM in the not-too-distant past, from someone other than Ron and mirage62). But the last P3 100-way did a successful 100-way on the 7th attempt -- there wasn't that much funneling, and funneling is still important learning experience. (there were minor occasional localized ones which were video debriefed in a very educational manner). And yes, it is likely easier for some to stay with the main group (i.e. BJ Worth side), while it is easier others to stay with the other group (the P3 side) where they have more reputation with. It is not going to stop some people, like me, to continue and try to apply for events at both, even if the cost of certain events might be a little higher. Not to be a 'hero' as it wasn't my aim, I was "one of the lower jump" relating to Kaleidoscope 2009, not THE lowest -- somewhere in the lower 5th percentile in numbers of lifetime jumps at the time -- I pointed that out merely to show that BJ did likely, indeed, take my P3 and MWR experience into consideration when he invited me to Kaleidoscope. Despite rivalries between the groups, there is a limited worldwide pool of skydivers for various major mega-bigway organizers to draw upon. Anyway, there's no disagreement about that, so I'll close out that paragraph to say we generally agree on that bit... And finally -- Georgia, the overseas, or Georgia the U.S. state? When I flew from Ottawa, that's about 2400 miles. Atlanta is only 1900 miles from Los Angeles and Atlanta probably has nonstops where I had to do connections. (I sometimes drive/train somewhere else to an alternate further-away airport that provides nonstops -- it occasionally results in exactly the same time but less hassle) Granted -- yes -- you are probably in a part of Georgia that's far from a convenient airport. You could still probably leave work at 3pm on the Wednesday, and still get a 5-day trip (3 vacation days) with a good night's sleep on the first and last nights. But that said, $3000 may be realistic for a rural resident far from a convenient airport. I think it is not typical of the average P3 jumper -- so I'll just redirect it as a defense not to scare away the typical person interested in P3, since while it's not cheap, the vast majority of attendance from North America aren't generally paying $3000 per event. I'll note again that I did say all systems have their own respective flaws. That includes camps. It was a counter-argument to somebody's statement that the camp system is flawed.

Also -- feel free to send me more PM's if any of my counter-argument replies sounded arrogant. Right now, I am merely providing healthy counter-arguments to the Internet anti-camp crowd (not targeted at you, Ron/mirage3 in particular -- and you both did admit that the camp system still has advantages too). I suspect at least one or two others might have felt slightly offended by my slightly aggressive counter-defenses to comments made against the camp system. Let me close this by saying I don't necessarily deserve a 500-slot. Perhaps I don't belong in the next Kaleidoscope, or TSR, or CSR, because for a 6 month period in 2010, I slightly reduced my bigway currency due to my Toronto move and my summertime skydiving injury (abrupt canopy opening at RB2010). Some organizers already noticed my temporary blip in participating in slightly fewer bigways in 2010 than 2009. (but still lots in 2010 relative to most people). That's a perfectly legitimate concern for big way organizers to reject me from the next bigger-than-100 event. I do plan to hit big ways in a increasing pace again, targetting participation in Dubai 500 in 2013. I had no intention of sounding overly defensive against the talk made against the camp system. Arrogance get people killed, yes. I am plainly aware of that. But I am going to continue to provide healthy counterpoints to the arguments made against the camp system.

All systems are broken. The question is what system is the least broken. For me, it's a 4 day gig, and I'm further away from P3 than you are (your profile suggest you are near Memphis). I'm in eastern Canada, almost 1.5 times further away Memphis and I've still successfully managed to need to need to take only 2 vacation days off for a single Perris P3 camp, plus the 2 weekend days. I work the Wednesday prior the camp, fly during the evenings on a Wednesday, start camp Thursday-Sunday, and I return on a late Sunday evening or red-eye flight. (Camps end early on Sundays to allow people to fly home). I can share a motel at $40-$40 each ($160 total) at Super 8 Sun City near Perris. But I usually save even more money than that! The onsite dropzone IHOP hostel house with kitchen/AC/heating/free WiFi at Perris costs only $15/night. I reserve months in advance. If it is ever sold out, the bunkhouse cost me $10 per night, and I can camp onsite for free. I never rent a car (except if I'm also flying the LA highways on vacation on the days prior/after). I have always successfully gotten pickups at airport and rides back to airport are common. A Perris camp trip cost me only $1600 in total trip expenses ($860 camp + $500 international airfare + $75 Perris IHOP hostel + $200 bombshelter restaurant buffet food). Free T-Shirt and a bump upwards on the candidate list for record events, priceless. If you want to pamper yourself instead, it is still under $2000 including shared car rental and hotel. I would be surprised if you have to spend twice as much as a mere distant Canadian such as moi. Yes, it is still expensive, but I think your numbers are slightly high -- even when I ask my friends at P3 for cost saving tips, and some who don't bother saving money, end up spending less than $3000 from the east coast, and is rarely more than a 5 day gig (for those who like to preserve sleep), and is still only a 4 day gig for many. If you gain the most pleasure in getting maximum jump per buck, the camp system is the wrong way. If you gain the most pleasure from the accomplishment of participating in an event on the fast track with minimum number of vacation days, you gotta pay up. Tunnel time ($$$) and big way camps ($$$) as well as major events such as JFTC/MWR/Kaleidoscope ($$$) accelerate your ability to be invited to events, without taking as much vacation time off. (Self employed, my vacation time is unpaid). I became one of the lower jump numbered person to participate in a prestigious Kaleidoscope event. When I jumped in Kaleidoscope 2009, some other P3 regulars including Greg Mirken and others, had fairly low numbers (i.e. barely above 1000) compared to the average jump numbers of a BJ Worth Kaleidoscope roster. Despite known rivalries between the two groups, BJ does not reject enthusiac P3 regulars that also want to attend BJ events. Bang-for-the-buck, and experience-improvement-per-day the camp system have shown obvious wins in getting P3 members invited into events, especially those who plays all events. It is big winners for self-employed people like me who can only get time off to skydive 10 "long-weekends" (150-200 jumps) per year. And many of my friends CANNOT, in the belt-tightening era, get days off work. A single P3 trip gains more big way experience, tracking safety experience, precision flying experience, than going to their cessna home dropzone every weekend for two months in a row (16 days of weekends). There are people who say every single P3 jump teaches as much as one full day at their regular dropzone, especially if it is a Cessna dropzone that doesn't suit their vibe as much. (P3 events have been well known for their amazing vibe). Sometimes these people rather scale back their dropzone visits back to "every-other-weekend" (8 days of weekends in a 2 month period) and spend the savings on throwing in an extra P3 trip. P3 experience gain reputation points too. P3 participants bring the skills back to their dropzone, now becoming a clamored coach or load organizer of novice 4-ways, thanks to their newfound improved reputation at their home dropzone, allowing them to accelerate their own learning experience even further at home. I even noticed that when I went to a couple of dropzones I rarely went to; they knew I went to many P3 events and asked if I could load-organize a couple of novices in a 3-way. (That itself was a learning experience; and also trying to keep things simple and safe, also cross-checked the load organizing plan with the DZO to see if it was simple enough) For many reasons, not just including these reasons, the camp system is essential and successful to people like me.

Data to back that claim? Attend P3 several times, and watch them perform. Watch the video. How high/low they track, how well they accurately get into their slot, how the organizers criticize them. MANY world team members are amazing performers and they vastly outpeform me, but it's already clear from the video debriefs that many people (apparently, including me) have surpassed the performance of several prior world team members who have not been staying current. That is not to necessarily say I should get a slot myself. For a 1000-jump sky wonder, there are indeed such P3 regulars who are more trusted to a slot in the upcoming 500-way, and will perform more reliably in a 2-week progression of a 500-way record, than a specific previous World Team member, that have not been staying current. (Mind you -- I perhaps wont, since I have fairly low jump numbers in this league, and I clearly will need to compensate by a massive surge of jumps/tunnel in year 2012 and potentially at least one 200ish-way somewhere before 2013.) Dozens of people can vouch for this generality, billyvon (who already did), cpoxon, katecooper, and in fact even BJ Worth would vouch -- he also prefers to choose a highly current 100-way jumper who has never done a 400-way, than a person who hasn't jumped a single 100-way (or bigger) since the 400-way World Record, especially if they are attending one of their recent events and showed them to be a great 100-way flyer. In one case, I even saw someone at P3 reassign to the base, some prior world team member when that world team member funneled someone else (two DIFFERENT people, so they couldn't blame the 'other guy') two times in the same day and went unrecoverably low both times. MANY world team members are amazing performers. But there are already at least a couple dozen uncurrent in the group of 400 that currently underperform many P3 regulars.

True, though as evidenced by the successful 181-way and the three consecutive successful complete 200-ways, the P3 team have already proven successful in quick calculated reassignments with the bench team. With a healthy safety margin of time, they even did the first 200-way on the day before the last day of the "SQUARE ONE 200-way" event. In my opinion, I think they're perfectly capable of doing a 500-way now with their current planned progression. Even if they don't invite me. Let's not forget this. Many frequent P3-campers who have been to four 100-way event with extremely high big-way currency, already outperform many of the 400-way World Record team members who have not been staying big way current lately. These P3 campers have a jump average of way more than 1000 jumps each. Are these beginner 250-jump wonders who are starting out P3 camp, like I was at my first P3 camp? No. There's a lot of 1000+ jumpers at P3 events too. Yet, even after 10 P3 events, I have lots more to learn. I also play on Guy Wright, BJ, and other groups too, don't close the door on anyone either.

I enjoy big way events in both major big way groups (BJ and P3) and based on my experience, both could probably pull off the 500 way. I will attend either one that I am invited to. I have been to ten P3 organized/hosted events now (three in '08, four in '09 including MWR, three in '10). The P3 team has been gaining experience necessary for a 500-way, as they: - Successfully accomplished the 181-way JFTC - Successfully accomplished the 200-way event (three completions, plus one near complete 2-pointer!) They used a bench team (the "K plane" team in the JFTC) which is kept hot and ready to jump. There is starting to now be a history of healthy time margins on serious NON-CAMP P3 events, too. They also succesfully integrated bench teams for expanded records, such as the Australia 112-way record well beyond the original Australia 100-way target. There are a number of longtime big way veterans -- including a few 400-way recordholders -- that make almost EVERY P3 100-way camp, because they enjoy these camps and want to stay current in big ways. They are not just "campers"... They are patient enough to sit through the class, to keep learning more techniques. There's always something new every year -- P3 has refined a few new big way training techniques that did not exist in 2006. The 252-way in Dubai 2012 is not much larger than the succesful 200-way the P3 team did, and there is plenty of time. It is wholly possible I might not even make the 500-way since I scaled my skydiving back by about 25% due to my Toronto move, but I have proven a reliable 100-way jumper (including 2-point 100-ways) that can take the pressure now. It's the big step up that I need to prove, but not everyone in the last 400-way actually had prior 200-way experience, and it is possible I may have to make the large leap up from the 100-175 way range. Fortunately I track better than average now (BJ can vouch for that too, he was in the same tracking team in MWR) However, I would rather have at least one 200-way league formation between now and 2013. I really don't think there's a problem with the P3 approach of using camps to incubate more big way jumpers that eventually qualifies for the record, as proven by the 181-way and 200-ways organized by P3, which used a higher pressure bench system, than the no-fault camp system. They have successfully gained experience in that territory already. There's a lot of 1000+ jumpers at P3 events too, including seeing members of a country's champion 4-way team showing up a P3 event to do their first big ways. They also tracked like rockets as I had opportunity to see. It does not take too many camps/events to turn them into great 500-way record holders. I was, of course, rejected from the first Perris 100-way in May 2008 when I asked if I could apply after my first 49-way. I applied again 6 months later and got accepted, and successfully got my first 100-way. Try again, don't give up, and you gain more points with the organizers.

You just have to apply, apply, and show up to a few big ways, and you get higher on the list. I've applied to the 200-way-plus league events but haven't been accepted yet, but I'm easily accepted on 100-ways now, as well as Kaleidoscope 2009 / Men's World Record / upcoming Canada Record. Assuming I make a good run to keep large big way currency in the next two years, a person like me probably has a good chance of getting to a 500-way, but may have difficulty squeezing onto a 250-way. I'll keep trying though!

Are you saying there's something more advanced than central air and digital thermostats? Zep may have actually instead been referring to 'quite inefficient compared to other developed countries' -- which is more accurate. Some countries do pick on efficiencies much more aggressively, due to double fuel costs, etc. Do you know now how expensive fuel is, in Europe?

Collisons are a quick way to die (and take other people with you). Track like your life depends on it... if you land out, so be it. You won't be welcome on jumps if you can't be relied on to track. The center belongs to the camera guys... don't be there. Confirmed... To original poster... Please track anyway from any formation skydive, no matter how bad the spot. Unless you are specifically assigned the center (only one person can be -- and that's typically the video guy/girl!) Landing out is safer than having two center flyers collide -- you might kill 2nd person above you when you pull.