jakee

Logical fallacy. According to you the snake's attempt at deceipt was evil in intent. Therefore evil did exist before Adam and Eve ate the apple. If they already had knowledge of good and evil they would have seen through the snakes treachery. So why did god forbid them to eat the apple? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Steve: we get your premise, we just found holes the size of Australia in it. Thank you

The fact that they are so easily able to see it in another light shows the flaw in your argument. If god installed in us a moral judgement that murder was wrong we would not be so easily able to redefine our way out of it. We would see murder as wrong no matter what we called it! Riddle me this, why would god make us morally object to murder within the community - but eminently capable of murdering with no justification those we see as outsiders/ underlings? It makes a huge amount of sense from a behavioural evolution standpoint but simply does not hold up to a 'God wants us all to be lovely' explanation. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

ok........ Im going to go outside and enjoy the sunshine and world I live in, without the need to attribute it all to some mythical sky god.... I would too, but the fact that it's sunny in November means its fucking freezing outside - so I'm going to stay in and play pool instead Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Right here. It is your argument that is the circular fallacy (people use murder to describe a killing they don't agree with, therefore no one agrees with murder) not our debate. So please tell me - why would god make us morally object to a word and not the actual act of unjustified killing? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Why do you say that? Its a valid theological question that has been asked many times in the past. Don't know if I've ever seen a serious answer to it - anyone know where I could find one? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

And that is precicely the reason that your point doesn't work. Killing people for no real reason (not war, not punishment, not sacrifice) with no moral judgement is and always has been quite widespread in the world. The word murder (as per your definition) is the word people give to a killing they find morally objectionable - so of course they dissaprove of it. Its the most basic circular argument I've ever seen! On another tack you again admit that unjustified killing is fine, as long as its not called murder. So why on earth would god give us a moral objection to a word and not the action it describes? It makes no sense. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Craziness, I'm sitting here listening to Hunky Dory and was about to post the same thing myself! Yep, the man is brilliant - I haven't got any of his really recent albums but I heard a lot of the singles and they did sound very good! Bowie is just someone you can listen to whatever mood you're in y'know? Some personal favourites include Oh! You Pretty Things (best song ever!) Cracked Actor Starman Rebel Rebel Ashes to Ashes Do you want to have an ideagasm?

How about this culture embracing infanticide for the sake of convenience? Sorry I'm not quite clear on your meaning. If you are looking for a culture that accepts infanticide then in ancient Sparta infants that were judged to be weak or feeble would be killed by exposure on a hillside. If you were making a crack at legal abortions then disregard. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Its not about that. It sometimes see to me that the people who pick and choose what to believe about an incident (whether because of 'he wouldn't do that' or any other reason) are less likely to really examine the issues that lead to the incident. I feel that being clear on what happened is usually a solid first step in learning from it. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Here's one just for Prof Kallend Do you want to have an ideagasm?

What it basically boils down to is two conflicting positions from the eyewitnesses, one of which is supported by photographic evidence. To accept the other eyewitness position wuld be foolhardy IMO. Video/stills is always better than "This is what I saw." Do you want to have an ideagasm?

President Merkin Muffley: How is it possible for this thing to be triggered automatically and at the same time impossible to untrigger? Dr. Strangelove: Mr. President, it is not only possible, it is essential. That is the whole idea of this machine, you know. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision-making process which rules out human meddling, the Doomsday machine is terrifying and simple to understand... and completely credible and convincing. Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, EH? Ambassador de Sadesky: It was to be announced at the Party Congress on Monday. As you know, the Premier loves surprises. Peter Sellers was an absolute genius! Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Gentlemen, please! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room! Do you want to have an ideagasm?

For the very best one liners, is there any film to beat Casablanca? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

And once they redefine it they approve of it. It is the action that is important, not the description. I'm going to paraphrase your argument back to you. "There are lots of ways to describe killing someone. For the sake of this argument, we will define 'murder' as the word people use to describe a killing that is not acceptable by their societal norms. Once we do this we find that every culture in the world disagrees with murder! This cannot be a coincidence." Your argument is fundamentally flawed. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

I'm not trying to REdefine any word, but hopefully come to a common understanding of what MURDER is (it is not war, it is not capital punishment, etc) . In fact the only way cultures approve of murder is to redefine it. (Jews are subhuman, NA and slaves are subhuman) Ok look, you've talked yourself around in a circle. You've started off saying that 'murder is wrong' is a moral absolute that is shared by everyone. You have then gone on to demonstrate that a) murder itself is not an absolute and b) even among those who share a definiton of muder they find it very easy to circumvent it and commit murder without calling it such. In amongst the semantics you have in fact proved that the killing of a person by another person for no good reason is not only acceptable but downright encouraged throughout the world. For your theory to work this should be the absolute - that the killing of a person is wrong. You yourself have shown this not to be the case. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

If you keep redefining words you can succesfully argue whatever the hell you want, but it will be a very hollow victory. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

a) Because its absurd. b) I'm cleverer than they are. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Not really. Certain patterns of behaviour are common to the human race because they work, and they allow society to work. BTW, I can't think of a single people on the planet that don't habitually get intoxicated, whether it be on alcohol, peyote, mushrooms, toads or whatever is to hand. Does this mean god wants us to get hammered? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Disagree. Murder of slaves for no particular reason is accepted in many cultures (including yours not too very long ago). Ritual human sacrifice was wildly popular in some areas, headhunting still continues today, revenge killings, blood feuds etc. are seen as honorable in many cultures..... I think thats enough to make the point. So, which moral codes do you think are absolute? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Still doesn't explain how it's hypocritical. Are Jews in America notorious for their arsenals? Damn, are you not aware that Jews in Germany registered, then surrendered their firearms, prior to them being sent to the concentration/death camps? Evidently not... Evidently you are unaware of the meaning of the word hypocrite. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Still doesn't explain how it's hypocritical. Are Jews in America notorious for their arsenals? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Yeah there inlies the hypocracy, a Jew telling us all we need to weapons to protect ourselves. His ancectors must be so proud. Ummm, care to explain? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Yep. While its never bothered me in freefall, I have been known to cry like a girl when my fingers are thawing out after the canopy ride in winter Do you want to have an ideagasm?