jakee

This brings up an interesting point though - one which I tried to raise earlier with Speedracer but which probably got lost in the deluge. The writers of Genesis undoubtedly did believe what they wrote. The story of the 6 day creation and Garden of Eden etc would have been an oral tradition many, many generations old by the time it was first committed to paper. The writers did not have knowledge of evolution or cosmology, the intention of Genesis at the time was to lay out how they thought the earth was created, how they had been taught the earth was created. Now we come to the modern world, people (well, sane people at least) look at Genesis and know that, taken literally, it is wrong. Some go on to say 'well that doesn't matter, we read it as a metaphor for a greater truth'. The problem as I see it is that the authors of Genesis did not intend it to be read that way. That is not the reason they wrote it. So while people may claim to find greater meaning in the work, it is surely a completely subjective greater meaning that goes above and beyond what is actually present, and quite possibly counter to what was intended. Given that, what is the actual worth of the text when you need to look at it in ways never intended in order to find worth in it? Criticism of any stage of this train of thought is welcome. (I'm not too happy with how I've worded the end bit, but it'll do for now.) Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Cool. Probably time to offer a virtual handshake and go our seperate ways. Until next time, anyway Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Well, having come up with the 'wedge' idea to get god into schools through Intelligent Design they live in perpetual fear of a wedge being applied to them. I read an article from answersingenesis that someone linked to which unequivocably stated that accepting the earth was older than 10,000 years was the first step in denying faith and being swallowed up by the evil secular lies. That kind of fear is hugely powerful. And of course many of them are either idiots or insane. Arguing with fundamentalists of any religion is about as fruitful as arguing with a cat. Um.....I think that's an insult to cats. Good. Cats get away with far too much Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Post #70. After 3 pages of debate in which you argued against the viewpoints of myself, kallend and Champu you decided that we were misreading (I took that to mean deliberately misunderstanding) you. Our arguments had been consistent throughout the exchange - why did you only then point out that you meant something different? Again.. what are you talking about? SPECIFICALLY? You claim we misread your posts. So clarify what we did not understand and what you meant to say. This seems completely random. What are you talking about? I am insinuating that when you realised we had answered you with valid points you could not contest, you changed tack and pretended you were talking about something else all along. The line itself comes from and old TV sketch show. Can't remember what the sketch was about, I just like the way it sounds. Boo! Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Well, having come up with the 'wedge' idea to get god into schools through Intelligent Design they live in perpetual fear of a wedge being applied to them. I read an article from answersingenesis that someone linked to which unequivocably stated that accepting the earth was older than 10,000 years was the first step in denying faith and being swallowed up by the evil secular lies. That kind of fear is hugely powerful. And of course many of them are either idiots or insane. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

It is a tactic I learned from you Of course in this case a simple read through of the thread is all the support I need.

It's all right here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do%3Dsearch_results%3Bsearch_forum%3Dall%3Bsearch_user_username%3DNCclimber%3Bmh%3D25=Show+user%27s+posts Knock yourself out. Hmm, I notice you neglected to mention we were 'misunderstanding' you until you'd comprehensively lost the argument. Strangely enough you haven't attempted to clarify your actual meaning either. Co-incidence, or cause and effect? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

While those are in fact the exact answers I was expecting I would rather wait until someone who actually believes it answers me

A nice idea, but how would you know who was a regular punter and who was a murderer before the 'lure' got into the car and drove off? If only real life was as simple as a GI Joe fantasy Do you want to have an ideagasm?

I'd like to steer the questions away from evolution (if you don't get it by now you are either unable or unwilling to comprehend it) and towards the devil. A few questions, 1) Have people been denied a place in heaven due to the Satan's trickery who otherwise would have been accepted? 2) Are Heaven and Hell eternal judgements (ie, once you're in, you're in)? 3) In Heaven are we restored to a 'pre original sin' state? 4) Is God Omnipotent? I realise it is difficult to use the Socratic method in a forum discussion but if someone could answer all four questions it would be much appreciated. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Why? You say that all people who espouse belief in a superior power have bought into a lie i.e. conspiracy theory. All it takes from your position[evolutionist/athiest] is taking a bunch of children, tell them that science is superior to all other thought processes, setting yourself up as a know it all authority, and perpetrating something that you adamantly believe in, whether you can prove it or not. No, its a completely different situation. I have no doubt that at least 90% of those working at all levels in the worlds major religions truly believe what they say. If evolution was a conspiracy and if it was as easy to prove false as you (hilariously) think it is, then everyone (everyone) who worked on it would know it was a lie. It's an absolutely ridiculous suggestion. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

And if, after all that, he did turn out to be Satan I would probably want to have a discussion about the theological problems he faces being the adversary of an omniscient, omnipotent deity. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

What I said and what you claim I said are quite different. It's about reading comprehension... some thing you, jakee and champu could all improve on. I'm guessing you (all) misread my posts because taking them at face value would require you to set aside your prejudices. When no-one that reads your posts understands what you meant, it is because you are writing them wrong. Learn to express yourself clearly and you'll stop running into problems. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Damn straight, fuck the constitution! In all seriousness though, if you were to get up on a soapbox and say that my reply to you would be to fuck off home and stay out of my fucking business.

What did the writers of Genesis believe? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

I was out with friends this afternoon and felt a sort of momentary stabbing headache. I got home, read this and realised it was the physical pain that these kind of displays of such pride in willful ignorance cause me. I mean seriously, how can you be so happy at being so very, very wrong? In future it would also be nice of you to link to where your articles come from, or at least denote where your words end and your copy and paste begins (although your grammar makes it fairly clear). Did you even read what you posted? Did you not compare it to what has been pointed out to you numerous times over the last few weeks? Evidently not because it is filled with the exact same fallacies and falsehoods as every other bloody thing you've posted. Honestly, just stop and think for a while on the sheer scale of the conspiracy you suggest. Nearly every single biologist, geneticist and chemist on the planet, almost every university administrator, government education official, schoolteacher, grant supervisor, science prize judge and administrator, journal editor..... all of them atheists but not only that, all of them are committed to dishonestly destroying Genesis, all of them willing to falsify data. You cannot possibly believe that. It is insane. Ugh! Do you want to have an ideagasm?

I see. You're of the opinion that even though the December Holiday season, which is overwhelming recognized as being all about Christmas (at least in the US and much of the Western World).... even though it originated with other December celebrations... ones that are now little noticed fringe events... that somehow these mostly forgotten forerunners to Christmas deserve the same legitimacy as Christmas. I'm really just reacting to those who claim sole ownership of the holidays in the name of the LORD. People that complain about saying "happy holidays", people that say you shouldn't celebrate if you don't include Jesus and in general the whole "Keep the Christ in CHRISTmas!!11!" brigade. Basically, they've got their heads up their arses. Keep ya guard up Champ Do you want to have an ideagasm?

You kidding me? I love Christmas!! (Except when the shops try and make it start in october. Grrrrrr) In my house we had a fir tree (real, not plastic), tinsel, flashing lights, presents, massive amounts of food, a walk in the country if the weather was good and maybe monopoly if we had enough time in the evening. Oh yeah, and none of it was remotely christian in nature. As Shrop said, you miss my point. I don't care if who does or doesn't celebrate christmas, I don't care who attatches religious significance to it, but I don't have any tolerance for those who demand every one submits to their interpretation of a holiday that is older than their entire religion. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Yet strangely none of it relates to christianity in any way. Ever try looking at an issue with your eyes open? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

I fail to see how a giant tree is an oppressive symbol of Christianity. Unless there was a crucifix on top of it its not religious at all. Oh yeah, Best comeback ever Do you want to have an ideagasm?

You may be right, he did improve a heck of a lot during last season. I think that'll be the only real battle for the championship though. Renault will crash and burn with Fisi as their No1 driver and McLaren surely can't produce a good enough car from nowhere? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Well, nobody's as good as him!! Geez...!! There's a one eyebrowed Spanyard who may disagree with us! t Its Ok, I'm pretty sure there's a mute Finn ready to put him back in his place next season Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Christmas hasn't always been about Christ? No kidding. You might want to do a little research to see if Christmas is the same or completely separate from other non-Christian celebrations that happen about the same time. I said from the holiday. Read it and weep Sucka! Right. The CHRISTMAS holiday!!! That is pretty much contiguous with the various Yule/ Saturnalia holidays (except for a few breaks where the christians banned it) that stretch much further back. Jesus is not the reason for a winter holiday. If you didn't know by now that was my point then I doubt this will help. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Christmas hasn't always been about Christ? No kidding. You might want to do a little research to see if Christmas is the same or completely separate from other non-Christian celebrations that happen about the same time. I said from the holiday. Read it and weep Sucka! Do you want to have an ideagasm?

I'm an atheist, and you can say Christmas to me.