JoeWeber

It seems to be the nature of change that it happens too fast or too slowly for most to perceive. Hard core second amendment folks need to get used to the idea that change is coming. I do not think it will be in the form of compulsory national service or military style acronym training for teachers. I think it will come about as more and more people start to think rationally about things and conclude that some weapons and accessories are actually counter productive to the notion of a free society. Armed speech should not negate free speech. Everyone should agree on that point. We do not need military style assault weapons and high capacity magazines to be free in America. For certain we do not need them openly carried in the public square. DICK'S Sporting Goods has had enough. Here is their press statement. Some will say they will never shop there again. I, for one, will now go there first. Wednesday, February 28, 2018 We at DICK’S Sporting Goods are deeply disturbed and saddened by the tragic events in Parkland. Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the victims and their loved ones. But thoughts and prayers are not enough. We have tremendous respect and admiration for the students organizing and making their voices heard regarding gun violence in schools and elsewhere in our country. We have heard you. The nation has heard you. We support and respect the Second Amendment, and we recognize and appreciate that the vast majority of gun owners in this country are responsible, law-abiding citizens. But we have to help solve the problem that’s in front of us. Gun violence is an epidemic that’s taking the lives of too many people, including the brightest hope for the future of America – our kids. Following all of the rules and laws, we sold a shotgun to the Parkland shooter in November of 2017. It was not the gun, nor type of gun, he used in the shooting. But it could have been. Clearly this indicates on so many levels that the systems in place are not effective to protect our kids and our citizens. We believe it’s time to do something about it. Beginning today, DICK’S Sporting Goods is committed to the following: We will no longer sell assault-style rifles, also referred to as modern sporting rifles. We had already removed them from all DICK’S stores after the Sandy Hook massacre, but we will now remove them from sale at all 35 Field & Stream stores. We will no longer sell firearms to anyone under 21 years of age. We will no longer sell high capacity magazines. We never have and never will sell bump stocks that allow semi-automatic weapons to fire more rapidly. At the same time, we implore our elected officials to enact common sense gun reform and pass the following regulations: Ban assault-style firearms Raise the minimum age to purchase firearms to 21 Ban high capacity magazines and bump stocks Require universal background checks that include relevant mental health information and previous interactions with the law Ensure a complete universal database of those banned from buying firearms Close the private sale and gun show loophole that waives the necessity of background checks We hope others join us in this effort to let our kids know that their pleas are being taken seriously. Some will say these steps can’t guarantee tragedies like Parkland will never happen again. They may be correct – but if common sense reform is enacted and even one life is saved, it will have been worth it. We deeply believe that this country’s most precious gift is our children. They are our future. We must keep them safe. Sincerely, Edward W. Stack Chairman & CEO DICK’S Sporting Goods

Same here. Agreed. At the risk of going back on topic, and to prove it is possible to successfully swallow a broken chicken bone, I agree with President Trump! Let's grab 'em by their assault rifles first and ask questions later. After all when you're a President you can do whatever you want, right?

Children aren't assets, they are innocent human beings. When murderous lunatics spray them with bullets from military style assault weapons as they huddle in terror our force levels are not simply being reduced. Consequently, in the same way that I believe the reality of seeing the carnage would more honestly shape the debate, clearly articulating that we are not discussing replaceable or inanimate objects would be helpful.

Maybe it is simply to provide you an outlet for your frustration, anger and, dare I say it, hatred. Hatred? No. Anger? Sometimes. Extreme frustration? Absolutely. Your domestic enemies thread is something I find frustrating. It's a bogeyman hunt originated by someone in desperate need of bogeymen. The very title presupposes that we are both surrounded and infiltrated by enemies. The implication is that these enemies are both seen and not seen and quite possibly unknown. While that might fit in to your theology I find it to be a horrible and inaccurate world view. Of course there are dangerous crazies running around. And, no doubt, some are running in crowds. But we are not under general attack. For you, it seems, any two muslims constitute a terrorist cell. The three actual white guy terrorists from your own back yard in Rome, GA don't seem to count. And because you look straight past them and see people of color to find your bogeymen it comes off as racism to some. It's been suggested before but it might be that you need to come out of the hills for a while and see the world others are living in.

Whatever, Ron. Your insight has no value. You are a locked down Christian living in the hills of North Georgia. How can you know anything about the changing world we live in? I've traveled to maybe 12 countries in the last year. I doubt you've traveled to 3 counties. People here have been trying to share with you the benefits of their more worldly experiences and when you ignore it and fall flat you quote the bible. You won't give an inch until we accept your God. Why are you even here?

Again, reinstating the assault weapons ban is an excellent starting point. Bingo. Ban assault weapons, bump stocks, high capacity magazines etc.. Impose serious penalties for the possession of banned weapons. Ban open carry. Impose taxes on the sale of new and used firearms to help pay for a nationwide buy back program of the newly banned weapons and accessories. Demand that government fund these buy back programs. Demand that media start showing the actual wounds suffered by the victims when covering mass shootings. And while that's being worked out let's all quit suggesting that we need a military solution to a civilian problem. Keith, we do not need: 6 Days - CQB in a MOUT environment (automatic (2), revolver (1) shotgun (1), rifle @ the range (2). (*) = days. Seriously, who the hell who isn't military knows what that is? Brother, you want no real restrictions on your 2nd Amendment rights-as you see them-and to get there you want regular folks to conform to your idea of what is right. Screw that. Instead of telling us what isn't conforming to your survey how about tossing us a bone. Which Firearms are you willing to ban outright to make a deal?

Yes, and thank you for turning me on to WND News. Sadly, it was a week late to catch the WND Exclusive Special: Have Sodom and Gomorrah been found? I have to say those Muslims are a damn tricky bunch pulling the hijab over all the local cops eye's and the darn FBI, too. For sure they had them cold on digging a bunker. I mean who was that dumb cop who investigated and believed they were installing a septic tank? Like, Duh??? You know, I heard the other day that there was a group of rogue Amish who were planning on ramming their buggies into a local car dealership. Do you think WND could check that out, too? Did you see this: https://www.myajc.com/blog/investigations/terrorism-georgia-has-origins-close-home/K5CDYy5dgsOk3FSoUKdKWO/ It's in a masnews link, number 2 in your bing search. Sadly, this one was for real. Three white guys from Rome, Georgia who wanted to overthrow the US Government by bombing police stations and power lines and stuff. Bad for them their bomb supplier (who can you trust anymore?) turned them in to the FBI. No biggie. They were white and weren't using food stamps to buy the bombs so get over it.

I wouldn't blame the mod's for screaming thread drift, but it was you who claimed that you had two Muslim training camps in Georgia. Given that you made the claim as a way to justify why you need to be armed and on guard, I think it's fair to ask you to explain what kind training goes on in these camps and how you know it.

I'm going to give Ron a pass on this one. You are correct about the meaning. But I do believe he was referring to someone not just saying it, but shouting it. It has sometimes been shouted by terrorists as they attack, and that was the context he was speaking of. It does illustrate the fear that we in the west have of Arabs now though. It would do us all well to remember that sowing fear and mistrust between Arabs and western Christians is exactly what Bin Laden's goal was. Among his other plans, causing the US to go to war was a big goal. He saw it as a way to drive a wedge between the house of Saud and the US so that his group could take over in the Muslim holy land. Believe it or not, he thought they were not religious enough. My point is that he wanted more hate. He has been wildly successful. But Ron, you should consider that Allah Akbar is a common peaceful greeting in Arabic. It's like a Christian saying "God bless you" in it's normal use. You nailed it with this post. And, I agree with your last statement. The tone of voice in expressing Allahu Akbar is significant. To be honest, if I hear the expression at all I will go into maximum hypervigilance. And just what is maximum hyper vigilance? Merely a hand on your pistol? I'm impressed that you have two Muslim training camps. Are they training to be Muslims? Terrorists? Ice Cream truck drivers? And how do you know what they are training for? If they plan nastiness I'll assume you've alerted the FBI. Do tell. Here in Oregon we had Rajneeshees for a while. Not the same obviously, but for us not too shabby.

To each and everyone, mod's not included given the collusion thing, who contributed to this dialogue thoughtfully, thank you. If ever there was a significant social issue that begged immediate solution this is it. Speakers Corner has value. No doubt.

Wow. Just. FUCKING. Wow. Right. I've tried desperately, and quite apparently futiley, to get Ron to see anything outside of his astonishingly narrow world view. My score is zero. It's not surprising, really. His faith, twinned with his apocalyptic hopes ie. the return of his God or the certain to arrive cataclysm caused by progressive liberalism preclude him from seriously considering the opinions of others. Nope. We just get a bible passage instead. He's lost in his salvation and unworthy of anyones time anymore. Better to kick a barking dog knowing it won't stop barking.

Jesus (the one described in the Bible) was very clearly a progressive liberal in today's vocabulary, and makes this very obvious in his teachings, especially the Sermon. You repudiate all those values yet still claim to be a follower. If there really is an afterlife, I expect you will be in for a big surprise. I believe what is going to surprise me is seeing who made it and who did not. However, such thoughts of surprise or sorrow are not possible. We will not have any thoughts about our earthly lives. It is another dimension where time and space are one. It is going to be a WOW trip. I knew that when you stepped in it and further revealed your racism by calling that women an "ignorant black", when in fact you were mis-quoting her, that this thread would become most entertaining. Now, we have you establishing that just past the Pearly Gates is a real wowser of a space time continuum. I'm assuming that Minkowski, after reading 2000 year old books written by desert dwellers, gave you the insight. No, that one came from Albert Einstein. Easy Ron, You are way out of your depth at the moment; your natural steady state, actually. Until you understand, or even respect, the implications of special relativity why not stick to arguing about whether a Christian standing on prayer rug becomes a Muslim.

But.....Bush was POTUS in 2001. And he made it very clear that it was a war on terror, not a war on Muslims. I'm thinking it is quite likely that because you are against progressives of any kind, you were against BHO. And that is easy to understand. You are a conservative. But that does not make it right to accuse BHO of being a "secret Muslim" which is what conservatives really mean when going after him. Seriously again, BHO is and was at the time a good and upstanding family man. Someone who always treated his wife and children properly, as well as those around him. Even if you hate his policies can you not respect the man for being a good and decent man? I mean apart from being a liberal. And while I'm at it, this whole thing about being against progressives. Does that mean you are against progress? (I know, I'm asking two different unrelated questions here. If you answer them both I will answer some from you. That is if you are curious enough to ask.) This is way into rabbit hole tangents. I believe BHO is a strong and good family man. Progressive liberalism does not support progress as much as it is for power and control over anyone in disagreement. One of the main insidious tactics is to use political correctness as a strategy to create victims. Progressive liberalism is teaching people to identify with victimized minority groups. I do not like what is happening in my country. I make generalized statements against Muslims. I deal with Muslims empathically on a 1:1 basis. I functioned that way as a substance abuse disorder treatment counselor working with court ordered clients. If Muhammed moves into my community I will engage him empathically. If he shouts Allahu Akbar in my church I will draw my weapon. Allahu Akbar means God is Greater. Saying that in church is cool, yes? Well, unless you are a racist who describes people of Arabic decent as "Muhammed's", that is. In that case, thank almighty God that we can pack pistols so we can waste those insolent assholes.

Jesus (the one described in the Bible) was very clearly a progressive liberal in today's vocabulary, and makes this very obvious in his teachings, especially the Sermon. You repudiate all those values yet still claim to be a follower. If there really is an afterlife, I expect you will be in for a big surprise. I believe what is going to surprise me is seeing who made it and who did not. However, such thoughts of surprise or sorrow are not possible. We will not have any thoughts about our earthly lives. It is another dimension where time and space are one. It is going to be a WOW trip. I knew that when you stepped in it and further revealed your racism by calling that women an "ignorant black", when in fact you were mis-quoting her, that this thread would become most entertaining. Now, we have you establishing that just past the Pearly Gates is a real wowser of a space time continuum. I'm assuming that Minkowski, after reading 2000 year old books written by desert dwellers, gave you the insight.

Don't know if you read far enough back that I not only agree with these points, but would advocate more training than just shooting 50 rds at a target from 25 yards, patting them on the butt and calling it good for the next 5 or 10 years (dependent on state renewal options). I would actually advocate a Close Quarter Combat (CQB) course in a MOUT environment. Let people see how well they do in a timed event (adding stress), with multiple friendlies & bad guys. Let them see their strengths and weaknesses and perhaps they'll realize that a one time visit to the range ain't going to get it. Require different levels of certification. Personal defense only, Defense of others, etc. That encourage people to go to the range more than even once a year for re-qual. ***No one needs a military style assault weapon unless they have military assault style fantasies that need catering. To those who argue that hunting rifles operate the same way as AR-15's and there is no difference and yada, yada, yada, I say: then what's the problem with banning them? Get a Model 700 Remington. This is where we'll have to disagree and because this is exactly what I was getting at in a couple of different threads. You just placed the exact same weapon in the hands of others what Whitman used in the University of Texas Massacre which Remington advertises as, "Top choice of elite military snipers, the Model 700 is un-equaled in tactical precision." Joe, I'm just about to extricate myself from this discussion. Here's why I stepped in - I had hoped to capture some great ideas that were not too far extreme towards either side and package them up for sending to my State and National Representatives. A list of bullet items (no pun intended) of centrist perspectives that both sides could not necessarily embrace - but, would bring up talking points to move more towards a solution than an opposing, heels dug in, left/right perspective. Cause the same rhetoric from both sides will temper over time until nothing gets changed AND this too becomes a distant memory for everyone except those directly affected until the next one. Points that are absolutes. 1. We are different than every other country and to our friends in Britain and Canada - we ain't you. Our 2nd amendment isn't going away. So, we have to keep that in mind as we move forward. 2. Banning assault style weapons - I simply don't understand how some can preach that banning doesn't work when it comes to marijuana and use the "look at how well that worked with alcohol" point of view thinks it will work here. Who decides what weapons get banned and how effective would that be? Someone intent on doing the kind of damage we've seen over the years is either, 1) not going to give a shit about what's banned, and 2) even if they could not get their hands on what's popular; would get something even more powerful that may not be banned. 3. Laws of banning have not only proven to not work. The original Gun-Free Zones Act was authored by Biden (Democrat); signed into law by Bush (Republican) overturned by the Supreme Court for the way it was written and again passed in its new & improved format and signed into law by Clinton in 1996. Since that time - it has been demonstrated the increase in school shootings has risen - we can't politely tuck that away. It's either a case worth studying and if ineffective; needs some overhaul. And, if it's effective; needs some overhaul. Hence, my proposition on Armed Campus Police Departments. And, then the question becomes, "How do we pay for it?" Well, in Oklahoma, we do it. Recently, there was an older kid walking up to an elementary school. Campus police mobilized by the onsite campus police officer; City police were called and mobilized and before he even got to the doors was absconded and within minutes - the parents were informed and the situation diffused. Again, before he even got to the doors. Turned out - he was bringing his kid sister's forgotten lunch. Again, before he even got to the doors. 4. In this country, we have a culture of "can't do." It's in this country's historical DNA. It's in our Constitution. There's a whole list of "can't do's" in it. Can't take away our right to own and bear arms, can't take our land, can't arrest for... can't take away our right to... Along with a multitude of "can'ts" interpreted by SCOTUS.. can't discriminate, can't... 5. After each mass shooting in the United States, many gun control advocates point to Australia, where a bipartisan coalition passed sweeping gun legislation that effectively ended mass shootings and dramatically reduced gun violence nationwide. More than 20 years ago, Australia had its own mass shooting, a devastating massacre in which a man with a semi-automatic rifle opened fire at a tourist destination on the Tasmanian peninsula killing 35 and injuring 23. Twelve days later, a conservative prime minister introduced the National Firearms Act, which banned the sale and importation of all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. Australia has no Constitutional provision to keep and bear arms. But, the man who helped craft the National Firearms Act while serving in the Australian Parliament is now Australian ambassador to the U.S. - says that idea is "naive" when it comes to the U.S. Australia and the United States are completely different situations, and it goes back to each of our foundings. America was born from a culture of self-defense. Australia was born from a culture of “the government will protect me.” Australia wasn’t born as a result of a brutal war. We weren’t invaded. We weren’t attacked. We weren’t occupied. That makes an incredible difference, even today. Our histories are completely different. The U.S. had a horrendous civil war, with more casualties than every other war combined. We didn’t have that history. It really went to the core of what it means to defend your people." In closing, I had hoped to pick the minds of those I respect in this forum to get some centrist solution suggestions. So far, all I have received is the same arguments against any proposal I've put out there with no real additions for consideration. I fear; we will again have the same conversation in the next two-three years if both sides don't come together for our nation's children. Keith Keith, We agree on much. While the training regimen you suggest is fairly restrictive it is one I would take if we were working a deal. I would, in fact, take more restrictions. I get your point regarding the Model 700 although for distance I prefer the Ruger M77 in 7MM. Where I disagree is that by definition the Model 700 (I have one) is arguably worse in the hands of a Tower Murderer. I think Las Vegas put paid to that argument. The thing is, these lunatics are a lot like slob duck hunters in that they shoot the flock not the duck. Whitman had to take the time to aim. Consequently rate of fire was a chief determinant in the outcome. Thanks for the conversation regardless of any disagreements held. Good luck with your representatives. And if anyone is interested, I'll walk the walk here. I'll trade my Ruger M77 in 7MM for an AR-15 which I will promptly turn over to the police.

Yes, more yahoo wannabes with guns making challenges to troubled teens who feel desperate and need help. Not everyone thinks it's a good idea to have the police state you describe. Escalating he situation is rarely a good idea in the civilian world. And yet again; you offer no solutions only target what I've said. What is YOUR suggestion? As you've seen in my previous posts; what can we do to prevent future occurrences while adhering to the second amendment? while adhering to the second amendment? Bigun, Some would argue that the second amendment is not being adhered to now; that the current interpretation is far too broad. Without question I am in that group. I am far from anti-gun. Though I quit hunting decades ago, I still have my rifles and shotguns. Last year I picked up a Beretta 1301 for home defense, it being more suited for the purpose than a Wingmaster. I don't have pistols because I believe very few people who don't practice regularly at the range, at night and lying on their bed after a few beers could hit their own feet in an emergency. Now, 9 .32 caliber bits of buckshot once or twice out of a short barrel with an open choke on the other hand..... But I would accept regulation, background checks and even demonstrating proficiency (like a field sobriety test, for example) if it would save a single group of parents from what happened in Florida. I almost wrote "might save" but apparently where regulations are imposed they work. No one needs a military style assault weapon unless they have military assault style fantasies that need catering. To those who argue that hunting rifles operate the same way as AR-15's and there is no difference and yada, yada, yada, I say: then what's the problem with banning them? Get a Model 700 Remington. Also, as someone who hunted for decades and who bagged 10 Bull Elk in 10 years I also say ditch your damn automatic rifle and learn to shoot instead. Critters don't shoot back, you know, and the only thing automatic about your rifle is the second shot because you missed or wounded it and shouldn't have pulled the trigger anyway. The gun trend is fully in your favor at this point in history. How we are to where it's allowed for nincompoops to wander around in public openly packing Glocks or Assault Rifles is simply baffling. Where would the NRA declare victory? Will it be when we are all dressed in kevlar war suits and packing machine guns? Seriously, if that doofus Trump doesn't blow us up instead, do you really believe a successful society a hundred years from now will be a fully armed society?

Klaatu barada nikto

And you claim to have been tracking him since the early 2000s? I guess that didn’t stretch to listening to anything he’s ever said, or reading anything he’s ever written. In other words, it’s dishonest bullshit. Obama has explicitly and unmistakeably spoken and written about his Christian faith on many, many occasions, easily verifiable with the simplest of google searches. If you have a shred of personal dignity and integrity you would go and change firm that on google then come back and apologise for everything you’ve ever said about him on the subject. Let’s see what happens, shall we? Ron does not have a shred of decency. He has only the shards of his faith. Amongst so many other absurd, ignorant and racist things he has written is this: That ignorant black was a lady with the name of Peggy Joseph. She was at Obama's victory rally. At that rally President Obama spoke of the need for inclusiveness, not paying off mortgages. Peggy Joseph, a mother and a nurse, was simply excited that an African-American President was offering the hope of equality. She did not say Obama was going to pay her mortgage. That was a red meat dog whistle from the right wing media. She said:" I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car. I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage." Maybe, just maybe Ron, someone who is in an oppressed group was thinking that now that the impossible has happened and a member of their oppressed group was now President of the United Staes of America that a fair shake might be coming. You know, like the hedge fund billionaires, Goldman Sachs exec's and Joe the Plumber were thinking when Trump was elected. jakee asked and I agree: it's time for an apology.

It must have been a very fearful time for you. A black Muslim family in the White House. No wonder you love Trump so much. That was a factor, not the only one, in our decision to move to a Christian enclave in the north GA mountains. America definitely changed during the Obama administration. As a family, we have made plans for survival should the worst happen. We could not afford to move out of the country as some did but we have purchased land in remote areas where we can make a stand. That is, we have land for farming, hunting and fishing. Ron, I know you are not stupid; your writing alone proves that point. I also believe that you have a big heart when it comes to helping those you believe worthy. Certainly I believe your faith, as I've previously opined, precludes rationality sometimes. None of that would bother me if you didn't claim a right to foist it off on any unfortunate passersby or use it as a final point in a conversation. But the one thing you could do is be a little more honest on one point if no other. That is, please read what you have just now written and try to understand how it comes off as racist. And then own it. I agree and there is one factor that is common between Ron and Marc, aka Rushmc. Support for trump no matter the deception, the lying, the hypocrisy, the racism, the bigotry and that whole ideology rolled into the republican party. Still exists. Currently "American voters give Trump a negative 37 - 58 percent approval rating", and American women show greater intellect, judgement because " 57 - 41 percent that Trump is not fit to serve as president. There is a wide gender gap, with men divided 49 - 49 percent on whether Trump is fit. Women say 65 - 33 percent he is not fit." https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2522 So 37% still approve of the fraudster in chief. A tax relief blip upwards last week was short lived. Its difficult to understand the parroted views of FOX and the WH. But its important to resist branding this 37% as stupid. About 10% of this number is voting solely on the gun issue. "4. Gun advocates are more passionate Last year, Gallup asked Americans whether they would vote only for a candidate who shared their views on gun policy or whether it was one of many important factors they would consider before voting. Among gun owners, 30% said they could vote only for someone who shared their viewpoint. Among those who didn't own guns, it was 20%. Not only that, but since 2000 the percentage of gun owners who said gun issues were key to their vote climbed by 17 points. It rose by just 10 points among those who didn't own guns. Pew has made similar findings to Gallup. Gun owners are 9 points (21% to 12%) more likely to have contacted public officials about gun policy than those who don't own guns. Americans who favor loosening gun laws have been 7 points (22% to 15%) more likely to contact public officials than those who favor stricter gun laws. Even if some Republicans were tempted to support stricter gun control, these numbers suggest that they might be pressured into voting against it because gun rights advocates are more likely to make their voices heard. " https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics/congress-gun-control-unlikely-to-pass/index.html Likely 4-7% are very wealthy and as such, enjoying huge advantages that his tax measures create. Which leaves about 20% of Americans who are middle to lower class working people that have yet to see the light. I also agree save that Ron has, on at least one occasion, demonstrated the capacity to concede a point in a public forum in favor of the opposition.

It must have been a very fearful time for you. A black Muslim family in the White House. No wonder you love Trump so much. That was a factor, not the only one, in our decision to move to a Christian enclave in the north GA mountains. America definitely changed during the Obama administration. As a family, we have made plans for survival should the worst happen. We could not afford to move out of the country as some did but we have purchased land in remote areas where we can make a stand. That is, we have land for farming, hunting and fishing. Ron, I know you are not stupid; your writing alone proves that point. I also believe that you have a big heart when it comes to helping those you believe worthy. Certainly I believe your faith, as I've previously opined, precludes rationality sometimes. None of that would bother me if you didn't claim a right to foist it off on any unfortunate passersby or use it as a final point in a conversation. But the one thing you could do is be a little more honest on one point if no other. That is, please read what you have just now written and try to understand how it comes off as racist. And then own it.

Is that like knowing there are 50 states not 57? Is it the same as believing that entrepreneurs do not build their businesses, the government does or, that believing that Islam is a religion of peace? Or what about promising ridiculous benefits to ignorant blacks. For example, that the government would pay their mortgage payments, as was the case in FL. According to Bill Clinton in '08, he was the guy who would have been getting their coffee. Or what about promising ridiculous benefits to ignorant blacks. Well now, it'll be interesting to see how that works out for you.

It's the only way.

Derek, You might be right but there are many firearms cheaper than AR-15's and Glocks. I believe that it isn't so much the caliber as it is the image. I sincerely doubt that maniacs parse the .44 vs. .45 vs. 9MM debate prior to committing mass murder. AR-15's and Glocks are military/police type firearms. They are also high capacity and fast to reload. Unfortunately, what is good for cops and soldiers is also good for crazed fantasy role playing by lunatics who are willing to trade the lives and futures of innocents for their 15 minutes of fame.

Derek, Why is the AR-15 becoming the weapon of choice for mass murder by firearm in the US? Why are the back-up weapons often .44 cal or 9MM pistols? I think the pistols were often Glocks or Sig Sauers, that type. Why those particular weapons do you think? Joe

Bill, Googling answers answers and explanations is what Marc does. Please stop validating him by responding. In time he will go away.