mik

A non-Russian friend of mine who has a lot of skydiving experience (18,000+ jumps), who has spent several summers working as a coach at a DZ in Russia and has looked at some of the rigs in detail is fine with jumping with them. TSO is an issue. Quality did not seem to be. We spent time looking at a couple of the rigs and he was of the view that they were really pretty good. He also mentioned that he had been on the DZ where there must have been hundreds of thousands of jumps (more than 100 loads some days, each with 18 jumpers) and had never heard of an issue arising from the quality of a rig. Not the same but the Ukranian Skylark jumps suits I bought a few years ago are fantastic, but I have heard the quality may have gone downhill in the last couple of years. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

He did remember to turn it on. I saw his video. This was taken at Kolomna dropzone, near Moscow. They do lots of organized big way training jumps for fairly inexperienced people and this could have been one of their jumps. I am very surprised no one picked it up before boarding or on the plane, as the Let 410s have plenty of space and it should have been visible. A great example of someone who can turn the camera on and forget the most basic of skydiving checks. Clearly not someone of Jwest's mad skilz. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Oh the irony, coming from someone whose initial post contained a bold statement about strapping a camera on their head early and doing it safely. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

So, the jumper I have seen at boarding point with shiny new camera but having forgotten to put on their rig (yes, seriously), allowed himself to be distracted? The incidents with POV cameras and inexperienced people only happened because those involved allowed it to happen? The voice of inexperience offering us all advice! (Whose strap line is something like "jump more, post less"? It seems highly relevant in your case!) *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

If you are referring to the Elsinore incident, most of the comments about the gopro seemed to be about bad decision making - someone wearing a gopro when trying a new discipline and having stability issues. And that is a consistent theme of this whole thread with most people of the view that sticking a gopro on too early, irrespective of whatever other experience you might have, and irrespective of whether it is hard where you are to get the recommended 200 jumps (that are pre-requisites for a C licence) is indicative of poor decision making. And poor decision making generally equals more risk and more chance of something going badly wrong. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

*** Yes I did say that I will probably wear a camera before 200 jumps. I don't need to justify it. When I want to do it I will ask my instructors. If they ok it than I will jump it. I don't clam to know a lot, there is a tremendous amount I can learn and would like to learn. Here we see your attitude changing from your initial posts. A bit. Before you claimed you would jump with camera at less than 200 jumps, safely - implying that you knew more that all the others who suggest it might not be a great idea. I wish guys like yourself would come back to your posts when you have 7-8 years in the sport or a thousand jumps or so and then tell us whether you still have the same views. It might just help the new jumpers who also think they are somehow special and therefore the existing rules should not apply to them. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

They really are that bad. Truly awful and dangerous. They associate "pull" and "stability." Once you teach that "pull" and "stable" are associated, no amount of explaining will unassociate them. In fact, the more you explain, the worse it will get. A student unstable at pull time will remember only that "pull" and "stable" are things that are both supposed to happen right now. Trying to figure out which is more important means they will more likely work on getting face to earth and/or stopping the spin, because being face to earth and stable is how they have rehearsed and rehearsed their freefall ending. Why not simply: "If you are at or below pull altitude, pull." Why would you need to say more than that? Mark Totally agree. I suspect that many people who have been skydiving for any length of time are aware of fatalities caused by people who spent the rest of their life trying to get stable, and then pulling too low to save themselves. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

At my dz, where there are a significant number of jumpers with 10k plus jumps, as far as I am aware, all are logged (there is a signing in sheet each day where jump numbers are listed..it can be somewhat humbling when the first 2 people signing in have more than 35k jumps between them). But I do know of quite a few people who stopped logging at about 200 jumps for reasons I don't understand. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

One safety point it might be worth repeating here... wearing weight belts underneath jump suits might be a bad idea if jumping near water. I have no idea whether this would be an issue for the OP, but DHemer's avatar has a very nice coastal scene, which reminded me of this. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I have no idea what "circle jerk" is (American English is not my first language) but does this mean that you got responses from experienced people that you don't like because they did not confirm that its ok to do what you are (secretly perhaps) planning to do irrespective of the advice given? Because you have mad skilz, perhaps? *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

The following makes interesting "bad apple"- related reading http://www.wlv.ac.uk/media/wlv/pdf/lssc-bsc-present-m-punch.pdf *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I like YOUR way of thinking and attitude. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Aerograd tends to be weekends only in the winter and of course is weather dependent. But there are plenty of good weekends where it is possibly to get 10 jumps or more over a weekend. Daylight hours can be pretty short at some times of the year, so that is a consideration. Jumping when it is pretty cold on the ground (eg minus 25) is not too bad if you wear the right gear (several layers, winter gloves pus liners, I wear an open face helmet plus motorcycle-style face masks). The planes are very warm so no freezing to death on the way to altitude. It can be a bit chilly under canopy. One consideration is that the DZ is not that close to the tunnel, so you would be looking at a pretty long drive (taxi) ride to get there. Given the hammering the Russian Ruble has had in recent months (down 30% on major currencies) the jumping and the tunnel will be VERY cheap right now for people who think in Euros, Sterling or USD. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Suggestion - add two new options to the poll, namely.. a) Oh no! Not another kid with mad skilz! b) Monday morning, new profile. Must be a bored troll. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

This is an interesting analogy. A quote from a leading canopy pilot in Europe, (c10k jumps, PD team pilot, multiple competition winner) on his canopy piloting course is that EVERY sub-200 modern canopy is EXACTLY like a F1 race car... The trouble is that the vast majority of jumpers do not take the time and effort to learn how to fly them, instead doing a few jumps, standing up the landings and then deciding the canopy is too tame for them. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I understand your sentiments but I guess it could be difficult to police. For my part, I have never understood why some of the regular posters choose to say they have 1 (or 999999) jumps.... some I know have relatively few jumps and I guess they are scared that revealing this would undermine their credibility and points they are very willing to make. It may be unrealistic to expect to people to have jump numbers absolutely up to date, but I like to know whether the person whose advice I am reading has hundreds vs thousands of jumps or 1 year vs 20 in the sport, for example. This information might help the newer jumpers to filter the bullshit (although I remember how much in awe I was of people with 100 jumps when I started the sport... now I know a number of people with 5000+ jumps who absolutely believe they are not highly experienced). *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Ok. No mals in 18, 000 jumps must be the new norm. Apologies for any unintentional misleading of anyone. I always thought it was about one mal in 800 to 1000 jumps, on average, but I can't remember where this came from. I stand corrected. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

When I was chatting to a free fly instructor at z-hills a few years ago, he had more than 18, 000 jumps with no mals.... had never had a mal according to him (and his wife who packed for him). He also said he used to do about 1, 000 coach jumps a year and my feeling was that he had been in the sport for quite a few years. A better average than many. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

+1 On a skydiving holiday when I was pretty inexperienced I decided to buy some fairly flimsy shoes fastened with velcro. The rationale was not to look cool but was simply so I take them off quickly to remove jumpsuit and pack quickly - typically doing something like 10 jumps a day. It seemed like a good idea until the wind shifted just before landing early on in the holiday and I had to make a down-wind landing in pretty strong winds. I thought I could run it out, and managed to do so, but hurt my heel pretty bad. I spent the next 2 weeks on the holiday jumping (another 100 or so jumps) but chewing painkillers frequeently, went on a business trip when I returned to my home country... a week later when I got home I went to the hospital and found the heel was broken.. and according to the hospital I was lucky it had not deformed. According to them, such a deformity could have made getting shoes that fit very difficult for the rest of my life. From then on, it has been a minimum of skate shoes or similar for me - something with a fair amount of cushioning should I need it. Plus a canopy course to improve my landings. It taught me a lesson on a subject I had not really thought about until then. For me, going bare foot or wearing some kind of mad skillz kung-fu sock is asking for trouble. No matter how cool it may (or may not) look. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Last time you fucked around in the air, you permanently cost another skydiver their hearing (not to mention a lost camera battery and lens). One can only hope everyone was sober this time around. I don't know the details of this event, but maybe this explains why some people don't like pranks. By the sounds of it, the poster referred to here caused someone permanent damage yet still thinks he has the skills to have fun in the air from time to time. DSE's post suggests that he has not got the required skills, but that doesn't seem to have dampened his enthusiasm. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Ah. So I guess this means that any "Scot Lutz is a dork" or similar comments will result in a ban? *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

No but it is believed important to have some level of education about the wider world (check out the USSR) and to be able to spell, for example. But I digress. The main reason for the cams according to people who I know that have them is lots of drivers have insurance only to cover damage to the other vehicle in an accident. .. so it is important to be able to prove fault. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I can relate to this having done a lot of cloud jumps. I don't like hail much though.. especially if I am on the camera step... especially especially if people I jump with take too long in the door while I am being battered by the hail. Bloody hurts! Rain is not so bad, in my experience. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

At my DZ the reverse is true. Where we have had to ride the plane down (probably 20 - 30 times for me, mainly due to high winds or cloud base being too low - but we can jump through clouds), we have never had to pay. The philosophy seems to be... DZ control decides whether we should take off and clears us to jump - so if they get it wrong the jumpers don't have to pay. So I pay for the jumps, not the ride. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Am I the only non-American to be mystified as to why the posts on this thread have immediately ceased once it is known that a number of "America's Finest" were amongst the gang?? Is the the mental stuggle to deal with the automatic hero worship that seems to be associated with "those who serve" in the US apparently being involved in the chase? Or the knowledge that police officers who presumably were trained in the use of guns, and could possibly have had guns with them, were unable, or not willing, to prevent the situation (as several posters have seemed to indicate would be the case if only a good guy with a gun was present)? Or something else? As a non-American, I am genuinely interested in why such a hot topic that provoked some fairly extreme views suddenly ceases to be interesting to the people who previously had very strong opinions on the topic. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example