mik

You clearly know lots about the UK weather. When I did AFF in South Africa, I was warned that jumping in the UK was so bad (due to weather) that even the CCIs often only had a few hundred jumps. The reality is somewhat different - most UK CCIs actually have many, many thousands of jumps (far more than the average CCI in SA) and quite a few of the dzs are open on a daily basis - or maybe 6 days a week (again, unlike nearly all the SA dzs). And you won't find everyone at the dz going home if the day starts out as cloudy - something that has happened many times at the SA dz I go to most frequently. However, back to your question. I lived in Essex for about 15 years and depending on where you are in Essex, transport links can be pretty poor. Nearest DZ is probably Headcorn in Kent but getting there from rural parts of Essex can be quite a lot of effort. And my first experience of Headcorn - in about 2003 - was not great so I decided not to support the place (it may be a totally different place now, but as a paying customer, if I don't like the service I will go elsewhere). When I lived in Essex, I used to travel to Hinton, Sibson and to Old Buckenham (now relocated to Norfolk I understand). I went by car and the trip would typically be 3-4 hours depending on traffic. Bedford and Milton Keynes are both reasonably accessible by public transport (rail links from London, I believe) - but I have only driven to the wind tunnels so I dn't know if you would need expensive taxis. Trains can be pretty expensive too.. (I read about the first 1000 pound railway ticket earlier this year). From where I lived in Essex(maybe 40 miles outside London), a return ticket to London bought on a daily basis for peak journey times (before 0930) was something like 25 pounds, and prices will have probably increased a fair amount since I lived in England. Weekend travel is probably a fair amount cheaper, as will tickets bought in advance. So if you believe your mates stories about English weather, you probably should leave your rig in sunny SA. On the other hand, if you want to jump, you should take your gear with you and you might just be surprised. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I know quite a few people with a LOT more jumps than the original poster who have never landed on rear risers, and would probably not agree with this comment (that it is not very difficult). *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

The Mi8 is not used much in the summer (it costs a lot more than the Lets to run). Last summer it was typically used only if enough jumpers wanted to pay extra to jump it or if some of the Lets were not running. Kolomna is an awesome place but since it got the 4th Let, the Mi8 is not used too much. Unless there is a metre of snow on the runway, of course. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Thank you. Let me re-phrase. c10edges is implying that one DZ is (almost) unique in that all AFF levels are completed with AFF instuctors. My question should have been .. is this pretty much the only US DZ (as implied) that teaches all AFF levels (not the post-AFF jumps that are required for an A licence) with AFF instructors?? Or is this yet another case of fierce supporting of a DZ and never letting the facts getiing in the way of a inaccurate and misleading post?? *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Does this mean that 'most other' US dropzones teach some AFF levels without using AFF instructors??? *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I wonder if the UK's position took account of the level of corruption in the London Metropoliton police force (both police and civilian workers) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8192964.stm (August 2009 report that 1 in 3 Met Police officers and staff - that is 1183 people - misused corporate credit card leading to 3.7m pounds being unaccounted for at one point ($5,000 per person) ... and the people have been given w'words of advice' - not the prosecution for false accounting and theft that would typically be applied to lesser mortals than the police) And recent report that it continues to take place... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8407688.stm I live in Russia now, but at least no-one here pretends that such abuse does not take place. In the UK it is staggering, in my view, that police were able to get away with such action, with virtually no action taken. Too many to dismiss in one go, I guess. And of course, totally unprofessional management from those at the top who introduced such a poorly controlled system and allowed a culture that supported the misappropriation of so many millions of public funds.. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I understand what your are saying here.. but he was not a stranger to all of us.. We all know skydiving is a risky sport. And that competitions bring out the best (and worst) in us. We all want to win. But is there any way these competitions could be made safer so the relatives, friends and families don't have to pick up the pieces when the worst happens? I have never competed in skydiving, nor have I any interest in doing so. But if there is a trend in holding competitions at high altitude dzs to increase performance, is there anything that could be done to get people, who might have thousands of jumps, but at a much lower altitude, used to the landings before the competition started?? Is this something the organisers should consider?? Putting people in boxes to send home to their families is not the best way to represent our sport, in my view. Nor will it do much to attract first jumpers / tandems to the host dzs if the publicity following the competition is all about deaths, brain damange and other injuries. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I did my AFF at this dz, and have been back there several times to jump. The difference in altitude between there an my normal drop zones (sea-level-ish) is always something I am very aware of. One of my AFF instructors tragically lost his life there swooping a couple of years back. When I heard the meet was going to be held at JSC, I was surprised and a bit worried about the danger. Now another friend has died at the same place :( Maybe John you are right :( *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

A great instructor from Kolomna, responsible for some people I know getting into the sport via AFF training. A sad day :( You will be missed mate.. http://www.aerograd.ru/instructor.html?name=mozhaev *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

FWIW a couple of years back I was on a load in Russia with some guys who had put a rig with what I was told was a very expired AAD (not sure what make) on a dummy. They jumped out with it. Apparently the AAD fired as expected (and no I don't know whether it was at exactly the right height etc). I am not sure what 'laws' prevent jumping with expired AADs though. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8381119.stm *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

A camera should not get in the way of communicating with someone when in a wrap and you need to know who is doing what, as an example. An IPOD playing loud music could be a serious issue to communication. We are giving advice to low jump number people here. People who may not have experienced a mal. Who might find it more difficult to think clearly and focus on dealing with a mal when there favourite music is pounding their ears. I don't think your advice is good. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

This is sound advice?? Wow!!! You don't think it's better to be able to hear other jumpers / warning shouts when under canopy? Have you ever heard of near misses under canopy? Seen any canopy collisions? Seen any near misses on landings? Been in cloud after opening where shouting under canopy is seen by many as a good idea to let other people know where you are (lots of people on this site jump outside the US where being in cloud after opening can and does happen)? Each to their own but I would like to give myself every opportunity to detect someone close to me when under canopy. And I don't want un-necessary distractions in freefall either. So no music for me. On busy days and especially busy landing areas, I'll cut everything off. I'm curious, would you jump or condone someone jumping with good earplugs and a helmet? It has the same effect, you don't hear a damn thing under canopy. Is that selfish too? Should we allow deaf skydivers? EDIT: Well, seeing as you asked, I don't think that jumping with a helmet and earplugs is at all comparable to listening to music. I think music is likely to be a distraction, earplugs etc not so much, although I think earplugs / good fitting helmet would clearly reduce your ability to hear. I sometimes wear earplugs in the plane but take them out for the jump. Re: deaf jumpers - no I dont think they should be banned. But I guess they would have no music to be distracted by, and I would not be surprised if they would be much more watchful than most when under canopy. And I don't think I mentioned anyone being selfish. I think I said something like 'each to their own', meaning that people can and will make their own minds up. So you and others can feel free to jump with an ipod as far as I am concerned. And I will make my own decisions about who to try and stay stay well clear of when either jumping or under canopy. And that includes people that I know use ipods when jumping. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

This is sound advice?? Wow!!! You don't think it's better to be able to hear other jumpers / warning shouts when under canopy? Have you ever heard of near misses under canopy? Seen any canopy collisions? Seen any near misses on landings? Been in cloud after opening where shouting under canopy is seen by many as a good idea to let other people know where you are (lots of people on this site jump outside the US where being in cloud after opening can and does happen)? Each to their own but I would like to give myself every opportunity to detect someone close to me when under canopy. And I don't want un-necessary distractions in freefall either. So no music for me. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I can see challenges in this appealing to a mainly US audience (I guess your intention) due to a combination of factors such as: - typical UK jump ticket prices compared to those in the US ($35-$40+ I guess at the moment in the UK??) - the availability of other boogies that are designed to be a holiday in addition to the jumping (Belize / Kenya / Thailand compared to expensive England?) - karting having limited appeal - Nigel Mansell having limited appeal (especially if husband and wife planning to travel together) - limited holiday time in the US - much less than in the UK , I believe - the overall cost of people travelling to the UK (with rig - extra luggage charge??) to do 10 jumps. And of course everyone knows that it always rains in england :) I reckon that most people who would want to visit the UK would have their own agenda in terms of places to visit (London - maybe for a few days to take in all the sights, Scotland etc etc) so unless the total package was very cheap, I would be surprised if many people would be interested. To me it sounds a bit like someone organising a skydiving-related trip for Brits to somewhere like Tokyo. In my experience, Tokyo is an interesting place but its a long way to travel, jumps cost something like £45 each and everything seems very expensive relative to the UK. In the current economic climate I would do something closer to home / cheaper. But I have been wrong many times before and it would be interesting to see what others think *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

About four of five years ago, half way through a jumping day, I found my reserve pin almost out on my virtually new ICON. The pin was at an angle, and only just hanging in the closure loop. I was jumping the mi8 helicopter and Let410 at the time (many jumps a day) and had checked the pin in the morning. I was packing for myself and the rig was always in the sight of myself or a trusted group of friends. I still don't know for sure what happened but now I check my reserve pin before I put my rig on. Every jump. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[reply Yes, it is the responsibility of a parent to make risk assessments for children in certain situations, but really, the sky isn't going anywhere, so why not wait a couple of years until they're old enough to make that risk assessment for themselves? I'm just thinking of what a headline of "Seven year old dies in skydiving accident" is going to do for the sport. We don't need that kind of negative publicity. I struggle with the concept of a kid ever being old enough to make a 'risk assessment' - if that implies that they have a good understanding of the risks involved. Some of the things I read about on this site, and see at different dzs, makes me think there are quite a few people in skydiving who don't really understand the risks of what they are doing eg low jumps numbers on big ways beyond their ability, instructors tying things to low jump number people's rigs, pilots on low passes hitting jumpers or canopies etc etc. I believe this kid had skydiving parents with a reasonable amount of experience. I suspect that his parents made their assessment of the risk in a way that the vast majority of first time jumpers, whether Tandem, AFF or whatever, cannot. On the subject of publicity, I can only remember one child getting hurt as a result of jumping. From memory it was somewhere in Central or South America where the child of parents who were both jumpers did a skydive on his own and went in. I have no idea how this impacted the sport (I suspect it had no impact in your country), but I believe that skydiving is getting more press in the UK than has happened in a while as a result of this one jump. Which is probably a good thing for dz owners in the current economic climate. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

My kids have been riding on the back of my motorbikes snce they were 3 years old (on the highway, wearing suitable clothing etc). Other kids I know of have been riding their own mini motorbikes from a young age. I suspect none fully understand the risks, yet, like skydiving, riding motorbikes is inherently dangerous. Being a parent involves taking decisions on behalf of kids, for example when the kids can't appreciate the dangers for themselves. In my opinion, that does not mean forcing them into doing something they don't want to do, but it involves taking a view on whether they should be allowed to do things they want to do. So in this case, if the kid wanted to jump and the parents were happy for him to do so, I cannot see a problem with it. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

So a friend of my recently had her first mal. Background - she was packing, got disturbed, went away from the pack job and returned and packed what sounds like some kind of step through (I did not see it). Did a hop and pop, found one riser twisted 180 degrees, could not release brakes so chopped and landed safely on her reserve. Someone who has something like a part time safety officer role (I think it is rotated between people) told her she should have considered a rear riser landing. Other relevant information - she has relatively low jump numbers (I think about 250 ish) - this year completed a canopy control course with one of the top european schools (the course introduces the concept of rear riser landings - with brakes unstowed - but students are not required to try them) - she has recently (within the last 40 jumps) downsized to I think a Pilot 150 (not sure of wing loading but it will not be very high) - she jumps at a high altitude drop zone (I think about 5,000 feet asl, or thereabouts) which can be hot at this time of the year (maybe high 20s centigrade) Comments welcome. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Did you get to jump there? Has it improved since when I was there a few years back (in terms of being able to get on loads)? *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

At the dropzone I jump at most frequently, low openings result in a simple 'for you jumping starts again tomorrow morning' - an immediate grounding for the rest of the day. Nothing else, no serious talking to. It gives most people a good time to think about their actions (and of course if on the last load, they will be grounded the following day). Its something I have seen happen more than once and seems to work (lots of overseas visitors so each summer new people push the limits then find themselves on the ground for the remainder of the day). *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

I know it is a minimum, but is 8 years (minimum, I know) really fair for what this animal did to children? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/south_west/8085736.stm *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Thank you for taking the time to write an interesting and informative post. It has confirmed my suspicions that individual posts are unlikely to have the weight of an expert witness (as it seems to me some people imply when asking people not to post), but the site can be a useful source of information to, presumably, lawyers working for either side in a case. It has also made me think about things I had not previously considered - like the discrediting of witnesses. My takeaway from this is that, given than many incidents have a reasonable degree of debate in the posts (which is often great in educating people about risks etc) then a discussion about the incident is something that is good for the skydiving community. And I imagine that even if those calling for censorship of comments on incidents are ever succesful in supressing discussion, it would not be too difficult for a lawyer to find other posts on dz.com to support their case.... eg - if there are no posts about whether it is sensible to 'cut' before letting people hop n pop related to a specific incident, I bet it would not be too hard to find a general discussion aabout the pros and cons of doing this on dz.com But I might think carefully about the words I would use if posting on here if I thought it likely I might be called as a witness to an incident. Thanks once again for the constructive comments. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Thanks for your response - I fully understand that it costs money to defend a case (that may be groundless). And the site can be used to dig for more information. But my question remains. Have comments on here actually impacted the outcome of a case? Or is the real concern that posting comments (for example when an incident occurs) might result directly in some speculative / groundless legal action? (If this is the perceived risk, I wonder whether people who are inclined to start such speculative / groundless action would do so whether or not there are comments on this site). *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

Thanks for the responses so far. If I understand correctly (and I may be wrong eg I don't know the detail of the USPA dispute referred to), information is used in a pending case (so not resolved so we don't know whether posts on dz.com have impacted the outcome of the case), information is used by speculative 'ambulance chasers' and comments are used in correspondence between parties in dispute. And by newspapers of course. But I still don't understand whether information posted on here by (sometimes) inexperienced jumpers would be accepted as 'expert' opinion to the extent that it has actually changed the outcome of a case. I would imagine that in any case that gets to court, if the prosecution tried to use comments from dz.com as evidence, the defence would find a real expert to counter those comments (and vice versa). I fully understand that this would cost money to defend ($300 an hour or whatever) so would be a pain in the arse, but I still am not sure whether there is any real risk of comments on here being used and accepted as expert testimony in a court and changing the outcome. So from the responses so far, it seems to me that posts saying ' be careful what you say on here because lawyers read this site' may be over stating the risk. If anyone has examples that they can quote where comments on dz.com have made a real difference to a case, and they can disclose the detail, I would be very interested. Thanks again. *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example