xavenger

I'm no physician - but my advice would be to TAKE IT EASY until you are as close to 100% as you and your doctors realistically think you can be. If it's possible (and in many cases it isn't) try and get stronger and fitter than you were before. Many sports people keen to return to their passion start again way too early - the consequences later in life can be disasterous. Whilst your bones, muscles, ligaments and tendons are weak you have a substantially greater risk of injuring yourself again. Sure you might not break your femur again, but bones are sometimes the least of your worries if you have damaged softer tissue. A torn or damaged ligament can cause a lifetime of trouble even if the broken bone has long since fixed itself. One fast landing and a stumble is all it takes to hurt a healthy person, imagine if your leg gives way on a landing - after a serious injury like that you have already sustained. Don't jeapordise your mobility for the rest of your life by placing your leg at risk for a skydiving fix and a bit of hedonism. Just take it easy, get in the gym, get the thing strong - if necessary take a year or more off the sport before returning to it. Hmmmm, I sound like a right kill joy don't I? Well sorry! I know skydiving is addictive, but going back to it too early could jeopordise your ability to do it and other sports in the medium/long term. James

Depends how much it grabs you.. as to how much it's going to cost .. Before I'd finished AFF I was hooked and I have only recently moved out of the completely obsessed stage after a year of being able to think about nothing else. Below is roughly what I spent within 12 months of getting hooked - mind you I did buy new and I did choose to travel quite a bit: $2,775 AFF / A-Licence $5,200 Rig (new) $350 Jumpsuit (new) $450 Alti/Helmet (new) $4,600 Jump tickets $4,000 Travel and accomodation $240 USPA/BPA memberships $17,615 TOTAL You think that's bad ... WAIT TILL YOU GET HOOKED ON THE WIND TUNNEL .. HAHAHAHA .. I've not even bothered putting down what I've spent on that baby .... but its probably the same again.

This one *is* UK based! Chichester United Kingdom ;-) We are the 51st state of America you know ..

WE WILL HAVE AN EXCELLENT UK TUNNEL SOON! Skyventure UK Plc have completed their fundraising (although there are a few more days open to invest if you want to) and expect that the UK wind tunnel will be up and running at the Xscape centre outside Milton Keynes in the second half of next year. Unlike other tunnel ventures being discussed in the UK - the Skyventure tunnel is PURPOSE built from the ground up for tunnel flying and skydive training. It will be smart place to train and is well situated. The tunnel will recirculate air so that its comfortable to work in during our cold winter months. More information is available at: http://www.skyventure.co.uk

As long as those people on nippy little canopies don't "spiral down" in to someone on a dosile old bird like mine, sounds fine. I was in cloud once .. along with a lot of other people .. and someone spiralled down pant-wettingly close to me (profusely apologised on the ground I should add). We're not supposed to jump through clouds in the UK either, but at all apart from 1 dropzone I have been to here it's relatively common practice. Don't get me wrong, no one really "goes out their way" to jump through clouds .. and likewise the DZ operators don't go out of their way to drop people through clouds ... but damn it's cloudy here .. and apart from 4-8 weeks of the year we have clear skies .. we'd never jump otherwise if we didn't..

I tell my friends and folks that skydiving is not as dangerous as they probably imagine it to be, that there are other far more dangerous sports - but that at the end of the day it is still high speed, there are risks and people do hurt themselves and get killed. I have told my girlfriend who I talk very openly with about pretty much everything that she has to understand I could serious injure myself or be killed skydiving even if I do everything right. I have had the conversation with her a dozen times. She doesn't like it, but accepts that sometimes people have to take risks to fulfill the things inside them, that life without a passion is no life at all. I also broke my tib and fib recently, also my foot in several places, my knee cap .. whilst skydiving .. and I was long way from home when I did it. My girlfriend has handled it pretty well and fully accepts that the moment I can I'll be jumping again I will be. Skydiving is definately not "safe". The amount of injuries I have seen in the sport in the 18 months I've been in it .. have been staggering. A lot go unrecorded. Incidentally: The week I did my AFF I wrote a will and sorted out what would happen in the event of my death. It's bad enough leaving your loved ones under normal circumstances .. in my mind it seemed even worse to leave them in the shit as a result of doing something relatively selfish and hedonistic like skydiving. Didn't seem responsible not to sort it.

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Hi In a fit of stupidity a few months ago - I broke my leg and now won't be able to actually *skydive* until next summer. Arrrrrrgghhhhh!! But, damnit .. I need a flying fix so I'm departing England's beautiful shores to go to the tunnel in Florida. I am going to be hanging around Orlando and the Florida Wind Tunnel from November 25th to December 21st. 4 weeks in total. If anyone wants someone to do 2 way or 4 way and ur short of a person, I'm your man. Can't freefly for crap in the tunnel yet, so RW people only please. I only have about 200 skydives, but have about 15 hours flat flying in the tunnel most of which has been coached. I've not flown for a few months, but I should get up to speed pretty quickly. Drop me a line if you want to fly with me, or have some block time that might need off loading. Note, I would rather find buddies to fly with though than going in the tunnel entirely on my lonesome. Likewise, if you're on your own - wanna stay in Orlando for a few nights on the cheap, don't smell, don't steal and are not a psycho - there's a spare double bed in my hotel room up for grabs for about $17 per night. Regards James james@s/k/y/d/i/v/e/./f/m/

They'll have brought a bowl of breakfast cereal and and some cold pizza on the load with them.

Bigway is probably just sitting there thinking - "Did I write that - or did I just think it. Hmmm" whilst he stares at his monitor .. that to him, and him alone resembles a large dolphin who he calls Mark and talks to every night before going to bed.

> am thinking you might not drink? > i have been trashed the night before > many times, but that first jump well > that is one hell of a cure for a hang over. No .. I like a beer very much. My point is - I think - there's probably far more people impaired by beer whilst jumping than people impaired by other recreational drugs. I also think someone sufferng from a hang-over is potentially just as dangerous or more that someone who's just had a smoke (depending on what they are smoking ofcourse!).

Vallerina > It's easier to tell if someone has been > drinking beer than it is to see if someone > just rolled. Can you tell if someone is seriously hung over???

Does the term drugs - include beer? Looking at the skydiving community as a whole and the number of people who participate in excessive "beer" consumption and those who participate in other recreational drugs .. I believe an incident is more likely to occur from the beer across the community as a WHOLE. That's not to say other recreational drugs on the dropzone should be tolerated, of course not(!!!), but alcohol is by far the most prolific drug. I think practially every single time I have been to a DZ there has been at least 1 person jumping who has been out drinking the night before, or who extremely tired from a late night or both. I have lost count of the number of times people have said to me how "trashed" they were the night before or how tired they are .. and then they go and jump to wake themselves up. > Grow up, people. Drugs are not cool. > It is not cool to fill whatever void you > have in your life with something so empty. Playing devils advocate again: I don't think drugs are "cool". I agree. But you seem to have missed the point as to why most people induldge. People do drugs because they ENJOY THEM, they are fun, often sociable, it gives them a buzz, it's affordable. Similar reasons to why many people skydive? You might find no appeal in recreational drug use and you may not understand it at all. Just like most people don't understand for a second why you would want to hurl yourself out of a plane. I am not advocating the use of drugs on the dropzone whatsoever. I think it's stupid and dangerous to jump whilst impared. But what the hell is "impaired" ..!

Get em a crate of beer ... or better still take em out for dinner somewhere!

> It amazes me at how many highly skilled RW-rs > out there I see tumbling across the desert after > biffing their landings... I would guess many of > them have more tunnel time in minutes than > actual skydives. Yup. I have more than 18 hours in the tunnel .. I'm pretty good in freefall .. plus I have .. a broken tib, broken fib, broken foot, broken knee, damaged ankle (I'm not joking). That tunnel thing never did help me with my landings. ;-) In response to the original poster, the tunnel is a great place to learn certain freefall skills and it's great fun - but it doesn't help you land your canopy safely and that's the bit that really counts. Go to Deland in FL and see Scott Miller for some canopy coaching .. or ask around at your DZ and find someone clued up who can do something similar. The freefall skills are cool - but so long as you're stable when you pull .. you can track .. and are not all over the place .. that's all it is - it's "cool" .. Flying and landing that there canopy is what counts. Get to the tunnel if you can (also soon after you'll need to learn about debt management), get some real in-air RW coaching, get both if you can - but as a newbie skydiver remember that nothing is more important than canopy control. regards James :-)

> wanna jump, but am broke I wanna jump and am broke too .. ! .. BROKE in my tib, fib, foot, knee, ankle .. :-/ Anyway. In all seriousness, if you want to jump more but have no cash - increase your income! You don't just *have* to go do it at the dropzone .. although that's of course cool. You can try and get a job that pays more .. or take another part-time job and put aside all the income from it for skydiving. WORK HARD - PLAY HARD :-)

ZHills isn't that I am aware off .. accident was at 2300ft DZ in Spain ..

1 post in here saying - hey guys will you take a look at this post - your opinion would be cool .. is hardly spamming :-/

The gear is sold - sold it last week. Not going to be jumping for 12 months because of the injuries sustained on my last bad landing. Figured if I was finding it on the edge now - then in 12 months after no jumping, yikes .. jumping it again would be very bad news indeed. Will buy a new rig when I'm fixed .. am totally happy to go for a wing loading of 1-1.1 ... which means something like a 210. Sick of hurting myself and frankly terrified that this leg will take a spanking. I have made my mind up, I'm getting something much bigger - the purpose in making the post was to get some people's comments generally about the advice that was given to me in the first place. Lots of experienced skydivers told me for a long time "don't worry you'll quickly get used to / will grow in to the canopy". Well it was just plain wrong. Or certainly still hadn't done in 180 jumps. Not bitching at anyone, I bought it in the end - it was my fault. Just trying to get a feel for what some people think is a high wingloading for a newbie and what isn't. My bad accident happened abroad at an elevated dropzone, in lots of heat - very different conditions to home. I think the atmospherics effected the canopy so that it moved out being "on the edge" in to "dangerous" for me .. but I only realise that in hindsight. Not "blaming" the conditions at the dropzone, just saying that I suspect the change in conditions *really* pushed me past my limits for that canopy. Suppose I'm trying to make a second point that I think new jumpers need to be warned a little bit more about the effects of jumping at dropzones at different elevations and climates certainly if they already have inconsistent landings at home. J

Hey you lot Stuck a post in Safety and Training which I would like some of you canopy experts to comment on. I'm a newbie skydiver, keep hurting myself on my canopy (just really done it - broke foot, tib, fib etc), your comment on my wing loading would be good if you have a minute Click here! Thanks :-) J

Hi boys and girls .. When I got my A licence (about jump 20) exactly 1 year ago - I went and bought a nice rig with an excellent Aerodyne Pilot 168sqf canopy on the advice of several people. This I have *since* worked out gave me a wing loading of about 1.35. I've had some pretty consistent landing problems ever since I got the canopy - and I now have 200 jumps. My landings have hardly ever really been "right". These landing problems got much "worse" when I left my own beautiful little coastal DZ in the UK that often has light reliable winds and I went abroad. On my first trip to sunny Florida, much much warmer and nill winds - I hurt myself several times. After taking several weeks off from a knee injury - I got a very experienced instructor friend over there to give me 2 days worth of canopy coaching and this helped 100x fold. Invaluable. Even though he got me standing them up, all my landings have always felt a bit "on the edge" for me. Mind you, having hurt myself several times I have perhaps become more "nervous" of landing than most people and I am sure this feedback loop does nothing to improve my performance. I recently went to a dropzone elsewhere in Europe at about 2,300ft above sea level and holy shit landings seemed fast. The place is extremely dry and the temperature was about 35C in comparison to about 22C that is a UK summer. I don't know if heat or air humidity effects canopy control but suspect it must alter the air density in some way. In the first 30 jumps I only stood it up "safely" about 4 times. I hurt my ankle on about jump 20 and had to take a few days off to recover. Eventually I nailed my landings and could stand them up .. it all still felt very fast to me but I started to get the timing right. Great stuff. Then on jump 50 (my 200th jump in total) I broke my leg/foot/knee, rather badly and now won't be jumping for a very long time. Lots of metal in leg .. crutches .. etc etc. Damnit. Damnit. Damnit. Now throughout my whole skydiving career - which is only 12 months - I've had landing problems. I look around at the DZs I have visiting and sure, there are often other people with landing problems but I've never met anyone who has had quite so many as me. I know my reflexes are pretty good, I know my depth perception is good (I can shoot clays out the sky with wicked precision) and whatsoever you might think, me now having broken my leg, I'm not completely and utterly stupid - honestly..!! So, over the last 12 months I've gradually been beginning to think that maybe I'm just not cut out for landing a sport parachute. Well at least - I was beginning to convince myself of this until in the last couple of months new people I've been meeting have started to say to me stuff like "well I'm not surprised you're having landing problems on that wing loading - its way too high". I've been chatting to a number of people online including many people with 1000+ jumps who are jumping with a wing loading less than mine. A lot of people I have talked to are jumping at about 1.1. Here I am with 200 jumps - and I'm on something faster and have been since finishing AFF. Hmmmmm. All makes me think that maybe, all along, it's not necessarily that I am just rubbish (although I possibly am - I'm definately not a natural) it's maybe just that I have just been jumping something well out of my league. Something too fast for me. Your general comments on this would be much appreciated. Please don't come back to me with "you dick head - of course that wing loading is too high for your experience level" because I've had as many people tell me it's ok - as have told me it isn't. I went and bought that canopy on the advice of several instructors in the first place - and what is a new skydiver to do if not listen to the advice of his instructors. Basically does 1.35 seem generally high for someone between 20 and 200 jumps?? What do you think? Blue skies folks J

> If he was dieing of cancer and wanted to > go out his way, I'd understand - but no > girl friend, boy friend, spouse, or situation > is worth committing suicide over .. period Rationally you are absolutely right .. it's not worth it. But you don't seem to understand the completely irrational states that WE CAN ALL get ourselves in to if placed under massive emotional stress, or if suffering some form of depression. If you'd ever REALLY been depressed you would probably understand. Don't come back and say you have .. and you still don't understand .. that just means you haven't ever been "depressed enough" to understand. It's tragic that someone should be so messed up inside that they feel as though this is the only option to them. We're pretty much *all* capable of being very fragile if caught off guard or placed under prolongued stress, even the strongest most resolute people can wake up feeling as though their lives serve no purpose anymore. Deepest sympathies to everyone involved. James

Hey Tronko Sounds like it's all coming along great! I will probably see you there later in the year if that's where you are based Tronko - I am spending 2 months in the Madrid area visiting my girlfriend who is learning spanish over there. I'll be doing lots of jumping at Lillo if I can adjust to the heat. How hot does it get there in July? You know us Brits are just not used to it ... :-) regards James

Man .. you must be on their pay-roll or something!! I went to Lillo last year before they'd completed their swoop spond. Spent about 3 days there but unfortunately didn't have great weather .. it was about the 3 only days it went foggy for the whole year .. any way that was just bad luck .. We did get a few jumps in though. Apart from being in the absolute middle of no-where and the fact that right now there is no where to buy food or even make yourself a cup of coffee .. oh and it's a 1/2 mile walk to the toilets .. it's ok ... ;-) What I will say .. is the guys that run it .. bent over backwards to make our stay enjoyable. They wanted our business and really pulled out the stops to keep us happy. They took the porter to 14k for just 3 of us .. man that was cool. On one of the days, one of our party who had not jumped for a while wasn't completely sure whether she felt ok jumping or not in the conditions. Daniel there (one of the main men) told her to go up to altitude .. look out .. if she didn't want to jump she didn't have to and she wouldn't loose her jump ticket. We thought that was seriously nice .. great customer services. Yeah so, Lillo is nice .. but there is a serious lack of facilities right now .. when they get them in place .. it will be great I think.