storm1977

Well Bill from the Horses Mouth: Keith being Gay and me not, he obviously knows everything.... And since I have never put my penis in a guys butt, I can't possibly know anything about Gays and AIDs.... That brings me to the part about "Making Shit Up". In his second post, Keith is basically saying that the GAY COMMUNITY has a term or two; "Barebacking & Fuck of Death". He also seems to imply that since these terms exist, Gay men know not to "bareback" because it is frowned upon, and therefore there isn't a problem. Keith did a common misleading trick in these posts... He tried to argue his point by saying... Since I am gay and you are not, you can not know anything about the gay community. I mean come on... you didn't even know what "barebacking was". Typical Bill...... Keep up your good work. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Apparently not much since one of them isists there isn't an aids problem in the gay community. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Yes bill, but she didn't just address one person... And me being the author of the thread.... I think we know where she was going with this. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Again, after what bill just pointed out.... Do you know any conservatives that have had "Absolutely no contact with gays? Oh, I guess that is is possible.... I forgot, there are no gays in the midwest. They only live in Greenwhich Village, and in San Fransisco A hypocritical statement Wendy. You say I or others here have no contact with gays. How much contact do you have with me... and how do you know how much contact I have with gays. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

If I recall you are from Isreal.... I understand your concern with the situation.... I have never lived there.... Shit, I have never visited there. But you must feel (despite the terrorism) that this shows some signs of possative action on the part of Isreals neighbors. I can't imagine that in the long rin this will make Isreal's situation worse. I would think things could really only get better. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

right.... so that explains why AIDs is such a big problem again amoungst gays. Because it's frowned upon (sarcasm). Maybe in your circle Keith.... I don't know. But there is obviously a large problem. Do you disagree? Am I making it up.... So, barebacking it is frowned upon in the gay community, and there is no real AIDs issue right. Because if no one is doing it, then the disease isn't spreading through intercourse. That is interesting... So, 71% of AIDs cases in Miami in '01' which were gay men didn't get or spread the disease through unprotected sex. They were all shooting up in the corner I guess and passing needles around. Frowned upon or not.... People obviously aren't practicing what they are preaching then are they? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Well, naturally you can't use what you don't have, but typically it is not the problem of "not having them". The problem is typically people not wanting to use them. There is this"It won't happen to me" mentality in the general population...gay, straight, bi.... Simply hand out condoms doesn't help very much. Like I said, it is not a BAD thing, however, someone payed for the 9000 condoms... Maybe that money would have been better spent on some sort of group meeting with a guest speaker... Someone directly affected by the disease. Everything helps, don't get me wrong, but I can't imagine that passing out 1000's of condoms really address or fixes the problem. The mindset of people needs to change. Maybe I have unprotected sex all the time... Some group passes out condoms.... I take two of them. So, the next two times I go and use them. But once they are gone I go back to my old ways. Again, they protected me those two times... and who knows, maybe that actually did prevent me from getting something, but that was a very temporary fix to a longterm and larger problem. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Giving out condoms doesn't teach Safe sex.... I am not saying it is a bad idea, but it is well known that people in posession of condoms are not that much more likely to use them just because they have them..... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I never implied we should denign them meds or let them die... I said we need to get the Gay community more involved in policing there own.... This is the whole point of the thread. If we as tax payers are paying 300million in CA for meds, wouldn't it be nice to only have to spend 50 on Safe Sex programs and 100 million on meds.... If we can get the Gay community to spend more time on awarness and prevention, it may save all of us money and heartache... EXAMPLE: Again, I am a smoker.... Have you seen the "Truth" advertizing on TV. Haven't you noticed it is more and more difficult for smokers to smoke.... Eventually, there will be less and less smoking. That can only benefit everyone right? Whether it is financial, physical or emotional benefits.... It will help everyone (Except tabacco companies). The same can be done with the AIDS problem in the Male Gay community. My arguement at the beginning of this thread though was by saying this, I am immeadiatlely labled a homophobe.... Why? Because I think it is in everyones best interest to stop the Spread of AIDS? The gay community can do something about this. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Maybe, but at least Horowitz lived the life first... He was after all pretty far left back in the day. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I just read "Unholy Allience: Radical Islam and the American Left" by David Horowitz I thought it was an excellent Book describing the history of the Communist movement in america and how that has been reshaped over the years. It points out the Irony in the Neo-Communist movement and how it has allied itself with Radical Islam... A group quite opposite of the Communist/Utopian view of the american Left. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

from: http://www.miamibeachfl.gov/newcity/cityhall/garcia/nl062701.htm ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

here is just one instance...In CA where the taxpayers pay for AID meds.... THe Governer is trying to cut the program. http://ga1.org/laglcan/alert-description.tcl?alert_id=315950 ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Here is a good read on the subject; http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128887,00.html ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I guess you didn't read what I wrote then. I never said "I don't want people telling me what to do with my life" .... I made a statement that people do tell me what to do and what not to do. I backed that up by saying the activities I am involved in such as smoking, cost the US tax payers money.... And that smoking or over eating are not good ideas.... I simple pointed out the Irony in a fat woman telling me smoking would kill me. Even you must be able to see the humor in that. Earlier, you made a statement that the taxes on the cigarrests pay for the healthcare costs....WRONG. Didn't happen. Also, there was money give to each state after the Lawsuit against big tabacco... that didn't go to its intended target either. As far as skydiving goes.... is it risky???? Compared to what? Yes it is risky, however, so is driving, so is sex, so is eating.... My statement was that when involved in Risky behavior, one should have a means to protect themselves. Does that mean accidents don'r happen??? NO, but it greatly reduceses them. In skydiving we use reserves as back up. We use AADs , some people use RSLs ... etc. When having sex (for purposes other than procreation) it would be smart to protect yourself from risk of infection by wearing a condom. When having sex with an infected individual, not wearing a condom is the equivilent of what I said before.... jumping without a reserve have knowledge that there is a 60% chance you will have a major malfunction. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Isreal has said it would give that region back if they could and would be recognized as a nation by muslim countries. Now, if Isreal does give back land, and the US Syria and Isreal sign some sort of treaty, and then the treaty is breached by Syria..... Then of course Syria would know how serious we were. And also, Isreal would be in their right to use the World's second most powerful Air Force ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Here is where I think your "Skydiver" analogy is wrong. Skydiving is the ACT... It could be compared to the act of Sex. Both have inherent risks associated with them. Is is more risky than say... driving a car 20,000 miles a year? So, in order to PROTECT myself while skydiving I have a RESERVE parachute. While engaging in sex one can use a condom for protection.... You following so far. Sex : Skydiving Condom : Reserve Chute Having unprotected anal sex with someone who is KNOWN to be HIV+ or has AIDs is the equivilent of Jumping out of a plane with no reserve chute and KNOWING there is a 60% chance of having a major Malfunction. But that's OK with you right.... It doesn't matter that health care cost are astounding. This type of personal behavior is Fine with you right? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Nope, but if the problem is largest in one group, mainly due to the fact that the ACT of anal sex is more likely to spread a disease than let's say vaginal sex, then I would target that group. Now, do hetero's do anal? Yes. Do they do it with the frequecy and is the disease spreading as rapidly through them as it is with the male gay community? No. So, again I would target the Gay community. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Back that up... OR is this just your opinion? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I do agree with what you said, however, I never put the onus on Gay men to fix the aids problem. I put the onus on gay men to solve the Aids problem within the gay community. I have never denighed that hetero's don't get HIV.... Look at Africa. Be happy the US's problem isn't that large yet. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Nope it won't, and that is not what I said. However, if the demographic shows gay men have the largest problem.... Why wounld you go afer the largest problem. Likewise to use your analogy of pregnancy... 76% of babies born from Black Women between the ages of 16-25 are born into single parent households. That is a stagering statistic!!!! It is also somethin I posted about a year ago when the Census data was put out from 2000. So, should we target suburban white teens???? NO. A campaign was started targeting inner city black teens. Mostly girls, but Men too. There is no proof that that it is working yet, but they have started to attack the largest problem. Bill Cosby too has spoken up on this topic (Ironic I know) to also make people aware. Now, I would argue that an unwanted child is a lot better a situation to be in, than getting HIV or AIDs, again my opinion. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Well, that is my bad I didn't really finish that thought. What I find strange is that people feel like they can comment on my personal behavior like smoking habbits, or eating habbits. There are groups who do nothing but lobby to stop freedoms we have in this country because they deem them bad. However, anytime someone (like me in this instance) brings up something about GAYS and their bad behavior, they are immeadiatley labled as Ignorant or a homophobe.... blaa blaa blaa... And, I would hate to break it to you Andy, but you did exactly that in your last post. Let me say one thing... This is of course My opinion: Any one who is HIV+ or has AIDS, and knowingly has unprotected sex with someone else should be jailed. Consent or no consent. The only exception I see to this rule would be if both parties involved were ifected, and therefore there is no risk of further infection. You can argue with me all you want Andy.... But this is plain and simply reckless, juvinile, and insane behavior. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Enough Said..... That is my point exactly. So, if the nature of the bug makes it easier for gay men to get it, don't you think GAY MEN have a responsibility to have themselves tested often, use protection, and try to prevent the spread of the disease? If Gay men in are the largest cause of the spread of disease in the USA, don't you think something ought to be done about it? Why hasn't the gay community tried from within to be more vocal about this? This is the Gorilla in the corner that no one in the Gay community really wants to discuss.... Why? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Wow.... You know I was actually interested in what you had to say right until I got to this part: That is pretty typical !!! You don't like to hear things which go against your beliefs... And when you do, you simply lable them as a "racist", "homophobe" "Sexist" "Ignorant Person" By doing this AndyMan.... It simply makes you look ignorant. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

We may be watching history unfold here.... Syria handing over SH half brother. Syrian backed Gov of Lebannon (sp?) resigning? Why? Seems Syria might be trying to clean up there act for fear of the USA attacking. Now is the time for the US to act!!! Take advantage of this and begin negotiations with syria. Give aid to them or something.... Show them we appreciate there actions. Someone on Fox made a comment about giving back part of Isreal (which isreal is willing to do) which Syria once owned. By doing so, make syria officially recognize Isreal as a nation. This could be a huge step in the Middle East. We will have to watch what happens over the next several months. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty