stoneycase

I believe that's what just happened...although it is a weird rendering of the verdict. Ciels- Michele yes, yes it is: ALEXANDRIA, Virginia (CNN) -- Al Qaeda terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui should spend the rest of his life in prison for his role in the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, a federal jury decided Wednesday. enjoy the rest of your life mr. moussaoui. looks like it'll be long and dull: There are no bars in Moussaoui's solitary-confinement cell. It is just a small room with a steel toilet, steel sink, and a concrete platform with a mattress. The only view is through the food slot or tiny window in the door. There is no television and no radio. Moussaoui spends 22 hours every day in a cell that is normally reserved for prisoners who are being punished. (He leaves his cell for showering and exercising, which account for the other two hours in a day.) http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0822/p01s02-usju.html Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

1630hrs EST court convenes for session. We'll hear in about a half hour. I say jail him for life. No need to add fuel to the fire. Besides, we've got a war going, what more 'revenge' (err I mean justice) do we need? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

oh yeah, i'm sure fred and shirley are at the top of the $hit list for most christians that have seen/heard of their antics. how could they not be? i agree with you point by point. they've got to dislike her and want to distance themselves from her given the situation. so their choice is to discredit the person - she's a nutjob. not reading the bible correctly/brainwashed/disturbed/evil/etc. but you can't just forget about the source. like i said, i agree, and that's the $hit part: her source is thought to be 'infallible'. i don't recall anything that said the old testament was fiction while the new testament was real. (of course i am *no kind* of theologian/religious scholar) so everyone on the outside, looking in (like myself), not only discredits the person as evil, but also discredits the source as hateful and intolerant. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

I found a place in El Segundo called "Big Mike's" that makes a good one. I don't think they'll put lettuce or tomato on it even if you ask them. A Portillos opened up recently in Anaheim so Italian beef sandwiches on the way home from the dropzone Sunday evenings may become a ritual. There's also a good New York deli in Torrance where you can get a proper pastrami sandwich. What is really lacking out here is Chicago-Style deep-dish. A guy at work claims there's a place out in Moreno Valley. That's a bit of a drive, but I haven't been to Chicago since November, so it's starting to sound closer and closer. no way?! el segundo? i'm down there on a semi-regular basis to visit another co. office and customer. awesome. i'm lookin that place up. haha! it's funny how we'll go to great lengths for 'simple' pleasures...a cheesesteak, some deep dish - that sounds damn good to me. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

sorry, i'm west coast. we don't have that crap here. j/k! i used to love the KK when i lived in VA. Actually, I think I saw one down in Torrance, off of PCH. wouldn't surprise me...i think there may even be some grocery stores that carry the donuts (boxed of course). what i really want, is a damn philly cheese steak. i want lean cut, lots of american cheese, grilled onions, peppers, and mushrooms. soft bread, dammit! stop with the 'so called' cheesesteaks! they suck!! (hint, big ass pieces of roast beef + lettuce + tomato + cheese does NOT equal cheesesteak) seriously, i've had one good cheesesteak in CA in 8 yrs. Jersey's, on Cannery Row in Monterey. opened in '05 i think. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

holy shit that is hilarious. i need to send that to some girls i know in SF...mind if i recycle? /socal, all i hear is 'fake boobs' this and 'she's got fake tits' that, it's really a *drag* (lol, yeah right...) Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

the quantity limits seem a bit low for purchase - as best I can guess typical usage, it would allow one to be found with a daily dose, but not in the amounts that a drug dealer would find it profitable to sell. imo, laws like these aren't necc designed to just go out and 'de-criminalize drugs', it's designed to focus the energy and resources of law enforcement, to re-align their priorities. it's rather obvious that mexico can't wage a 'war on drugs' the way we can here in the us. they don't have the manpower, resources, or authority to do something like that. therefore, it doesn't make sense to even spend .01 on a drug user. you should be focusing any and all efforts on distribution/cartels/large org's. looks like prioritization of LEO by legislators. wouldn't be surprised if LEO was actually driving this down there, "hey chief i spend all my time arresting the drug addicts, meanwhile you crucify me in the press for failing to arrest to cartel leaders. i can't do both, either i go after street level or i go after something bigger - your choice" the quantities are set where they are because if you possessed any more, there is the potential for re-sale (or just sale in general). you can't go around de-crim drug possession and going after the drug dealers if you allow every 'possessor' the ability to possess enough qty to be a dealer themselves... but i'm sure any self-respecting entrepeneur in mexico would gladly engage in a transaction with you that would provide you with substances in a qty < or = to the law...there's 2 sides to the profit coin - volume of sales, or quantity of individual sales. with all the gringo's reading this and licking their lips, i'm thinking 'volume of sales' looks like a winner ;) Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

yup. is it really freedom of choice, if there are only 2 choices? thank god i'm in the US? yup, but i so enjoy the free kool-aid they provide... we all need to pay the bills...if i don't work for a business of some kind, then i must work for myself. and sadly, this is not the case at the moment. at least at work they don't ask me to 'believe' in anything, other than the belief that my organization is 'the best' at what we do. did i miss something where the football coach said i needed to believe in an omnipotent being and that anal sex was an abomination? then i'd be stuck talking to coworkers only all day. ;) I live in a city that banned starbucks. Seriously. Starbucks moved in, the City threw out an ord that said plainly, "no more starbucks". They let the existing handful stay and gave the boot to any and all future projects... sorry, i'm west coast. we don't have that crap here. j/k! i used to love the KK when i lived in VA. Yeah it's a bitch, I'm sitting here saying, "Seems to me this woman is a manifestation of the hate that exists on the surface of organized religion" and "She's exactly the reason why a rational thinking person would want to take anything from the Bible or their church with a grain of salt" It's gotta be hard to convert people, when those people you want to convert look at you and only see hate/intolerance. Like I said, I don't think the woman's crazy. Brainwashed, probably. Evil, most certainly. But she's sane. She grounded all of her extreme beliefs in a widely accepted text that is, by most standards, 'untouchable' and 'infallible'. I can either choose to discredit her and simply believe that she's a twisted nutjob, or I can discredit the source. In this case, I think I've chosen to discredit both the source and the person. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

and that's really it Bill. I just don't get it. All this time/energy/talk about amnesty, deportation, citizenship hoops, etc etc. It's all useless if you don't work on the enter/exit aspect first. If anything, what the demonstrations have proven is that you can't just 'do something' and expect change to immediately occur. Too many people, too big to tackle quickly & easily. You make 'em all felons - where do you jail them, how do you process the cases? You deport 'em all - how do you manage that logistically? You leave 'em all here - how do you integrate them, make them citizens? All of it's moot anyway, because no matter what you do, and what your answer is, the revolving door is still going everyday. You have to do something at the door, before you can do anything meaningful inside. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

do they really just filter observations? the beliefs exist on their own, before any observation is made, i think...wouldn't the belief exist before any observation is made (and therefore before rational throught as well, as u point out). she goes into the world, into everyday, with her 'reality' (i.e. we're all sodomists or sodomy sympathsizers bound for ye old inferno downstairs) before she even sets foot outside and takes a look at the sun or the grass. that's why i've always fancied the realists when reading philosophy ;) they tend to look first, observe, then conclude. yup. and like i said, to a 'thinking' person like myself, it makes me want to take 10 steps further away from anything even remotely resembling organized religion. i know she's not the norm, don't get me wrong. but her 'evidence', from which this hate is based, is the Bible. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

got some energy about this topic. that's good, and bad. if you want someone to crack down on immigration and start arresting people, the people you want to talk are local law enforcement. plain and simple. http://www-tech.mit.edu/V126/N18/18long4.html "In more than a dozen jurisdictions, officials have invoked a little-used 1996 federal law to seek special federal training in immigration enforcement for their officers." ... "In Costa Mesa, Calif., for example, in Orange County, the city council last year shut down a day laborer job center that had operated for 17 years, and this year authorized its police department to begin training officers to pursue illegal immigrants — a job previously left to federal agents." any and all skull cracking should be left to LEO. they love that stuff. and for what its worth, i think we've got other issues to deal with that take precedence over illegal immigration. imo, corp america wants/needs cheap labor. illegal immigrants fill that gap. it isn't a snug fit. problems arise because of it, etc etc. but why the hell are we stirring up this $hit heap now? where is the 'win' in this scenario? seems to me the focus should be on physically protecting the border, rather than 'what to do with everyone that's here'. why don't we close the door first, before we decide what to do with everyone that's already inside... Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

another Sane but Evil. i'm with ya... i thought the exact same thing, she has made the choice to embrace the beliefs and her words/actions reflect her choice. but here's the thing (my coworker been hitting me over the head with this all day): shouldn't a sane person see through all the bullshit? shouldn't a simple stroll down the town main street yield the conclusion that "the world is a wide and wonderful place full of variety. hatred toward your fellow man/woman is no way to go about preaching the wonders of christ"? shouldn't a sane person think to themselves, "WTF am i saying?!" my response has been, "no, she has prioritized the Bible above 'reality' i.e. the outside world. nothing she sees in the outside world will change her beliefs. about the only thing that would change her, would be editing the Bible itself" Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

Sane but evil. I'm in the same boat. The father OTOH. Some of what he does is downright nutty. I'd be real tempted to label him crazy. Hard to do that to the daughter though. Perhaps I am just a sucker for someone who can speak in complete sentences... (unlike most of our elected politicians..) Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

I would agree with you, the Bible does not teach hatred like that. It's obvious that she has quite a bit of energy pent-up in the form of anger and hate. But the Bible does say that sodomy is a sin/abomination (does it actually say it's an abomination? somebody who's read and can remember correct me). If Fred and his daughter are 'only believers' trying to spread the 'good word' then what is the real problem? The words, as they are written, or these people's actions and interpretations? IMHO, having sources like the Bible that are 'untouchable' (i.e. the word of god is infallible) is part of the problem. Would the Phelps' have as much ammo as they do now, if no one cared about or gave much credit to the Bible? The Phelps' rely on our own belief that the Bible is sacred to enhance/reinforce their twisted beliefs. Seems like a 'thinking person' is left to not only distance themselves from the Phelps and their poison, but also from the source, the Bible itself. oh, and I read some more about the lawyer aspect...seems like you are correct. from the wiki article: "The Phelps family arrived on May 17, 1954, the same day that the United States Supreme Court handed down its decision on Brown v. Board of Education. Fred Sr. would later claim that he took this as a sign from God that he should become a lawyer." /the guy became a lawyer to fight for equal rights. seems like he even took up the fight in a few instances. little ironic, don't ya think? (his law career is far more interesting/twisted than that little sentence, btw) Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

Who the hell would ever be crazy enough to jump from a plane??? i have no idea...just boggles the mind, doesn't it?? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

ah, you picked up on that too...i noticed that as well. she's honestly a decent speaker. thoughts are organized well. speech is clear. vocab is there. obviously educated and able to write/read well. hope you chose 'other' (honestly i'm surprised more haven't made the same choice) Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

careful...they may be tainted i've added her to the list of people who need a boot in their ass. that's for sure. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

so wrong application of beliefs = crazy? she's crazy then? i was ready to throw 'crazy' on her forehead as well. but how do you call a person crazy who bases their beliefs on 'rational thought' and 'facts' (i.e. discussions on scripture) is it her actions alone that make her crazy - not the thought/belief? i could maybe buy that - a sane person wouldn't protest anyone's funeral, or would they? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

http://media.spikedhumor.com/24864/insane_woman_on_fox_news.wmv Not sure if you all have seen this. I don't watch a whole lot of Fox News, so this was new to me. Some background: the woman in the video is Rev Fred Phelps daughter. Fred Phelps is the Reverend who has become popular these last few years for his antics at soldier's funerals, the funeral of a young gay man who was brutually assaulted and killed, and other 'events'. This is the "God Hates Fags" guy. He has children. This is his daughter. Watching this video first brought on apathy, i.e. 'whatever, just another crazy *****' Then it became anger, i.e. 'who the hell does she think she is?!' Then finally it became sadness, i.e. 'she honestly believes what she's saying' So, my question is, "Is she crazy?" I mean certifiable here. I'm not talking about crazy like 'jump from a plane' crazy ;) I'm talking crazy like doctor-diagnoses-a-disorder-crazy. Part of my sadness arises from the fact that I don't think she's crazy. She seems perfectly sane. And that's truly the sad part. IMO, Religious beliefs have clouded her mind from reality and the 'truth' that exists here, on planet earth. But she's not crazy, a crazy person, to me, is just plain irrational (and sometimes they even know it). This woman bases her beliefs on the bible and scripture. I can't call her actions/beliefs irrational, or I risk calling all believers irrational, don't I? /little bit on phelps, if you're interested (or disgusted): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev._Fred_Phelps Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

i hope you enjoy the time from now-->'market forces' make everything OK. i know i will! you must have me confused me with another hippy. i don't remember making the claim that we 'burn too much gas' yes yes, no need to develop alternatives for the sake of having alternatives, i.e. backups, i.e. choices BEFORE the price hits $10/gall. no need at all...after all, the 'market' was sooooo smart it was able to anticipate future shortages (based on historical data) and compensate for them adequately. right? right?? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

let's see, where to begin... how about, the world 'alternatives'. looks to be quite a few in the software market, even *gasp* in the OS area. don't see that many alternatives at the gas station though. let's see, 87, 89, 91 and diesel. hmm, maybe i'm missing something? btw, i think bill started the thread to illustrate a 'dumb plan by congress' i didn't see him mention that big oil was 'evil' /assuming i even believe your stats, source? Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

i tried that (not really) this is the 'comprimise' we arrived at...lol... .50/gallon decrease means i'd pay about $2.80-$2.90/gall right now for 87(wonder what the .50 would mean, say, 6mo from now). cheap at twice the price! sounds like a good plan to me...chances of it happening, imo, are slim to none, and slim just got up and left on a pink vespa well played!! curiousity question - what kinda mpg do Harley's get? i don't own a motorcycle, and the only one's i've ever ridden have been honda/kawasaki - not exactly the Harley type. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

***... A proposed amendment to an emergency spending bill will give a $100 rebate to every american taxpayer, ostentibly to 'offset the pain' of higher gas prices. This is the US Congress, which was once the most powerful branch of government in the US. They have the power to set new CAFE limits, remove fuel taxes, close oil-company tax loopholes, stop the SUV incentives, give greater tax breaks for fuel efficient and alternative fuel vehicles, push mass transit, set mass transit fares, and fund new mass transit projects. And their answer to high fuel prices? Send everyone a check. Which, if used as anticipated, will INCREASE fuel prices. I am reminded of the Tocqueville quote - "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/27/gas.rebate/index.html i'll refrain from full comment, but, considering i voiced my opinion in another similar thread about how useless legislation would be in the first place, i'm not surprised this is the 'fix' congress has suggested. gravitymaster, paging gravitymaster...your advice to contact your reprsentative has paid off, we're all saved!! /wonder if he'll ride that pink vespa with me now. Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

right...a simple sarcastic reponse telling me to "go call my congressman"...maybe i should call the president instead? i'll *really* get some movement then... it's nice that you're so ready to roll over and say "market forces" when discussing the american car mfr's failures. the car companies short changed their R&D and any involvement into alternative 'fuels/technology' because they wanted maximum profit *at that exact moment*. my point is, their lack of planning has cost *us* so while they get their act together and catch up for lost time, and while the president makes his 'probes into price gouging', and while congress bickers back and forth about how to 'solve the problem' (w/o really addressing the root problem, i might add) you and i will be stuck making up the difference. Yes, I see, you believe that "hey nobody wanted an alternative vehicle 10 yrs ago, why expect the car co to make one?". Well, people *did* want alternative cars 10 years ago, and what's worse is that this is not the first 'gas crunch'. Why not spend time from 1970-->Now working on alternative fuels/cars rather than just making modest improvements in gas mileage? Could it possibly be that making the improvements to increase was gas mileage was the *easy way out* that maintained the status quo? you're joking? so when can i expect this 'magic' you speak of to appear? it's surprising that someone so willing to say "market forces, etc etc" then turns around and expects congress to 'provide relief' by repealing taxes. why not call 'market forces' right now? hell, the vespa dealer down the street just expanded into a bigger bldg. maybe you and i can ride tandem on a pink one? but in all seriousness, i understand what you're saying - you don't want to place blame on the mfr for providing what the public wanted at the time. that's fine and dandy, if it works for you. it doesn't work for me. ironic as this is, it doesn't seem to work for Dubya either: In January, President Bush suggested that carmakers solve their own problems by making cars that are "relevant." Referring to President Carter's decision to help Chrysler, he noted, "I would hope I wouldn't be asked to make that decision." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/14/automobiles/14bailout.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5088&en=6894a5fdb8e90424&ex=1302667200&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss i wonder why he chose the word 'relevant' when discussing the type of cars that should be made... Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

Uhh...noooo.... http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_history.html How QUICKLY we forget. March 1, 1999 the average cost for a gallon of regular gasoline was 89.1 cents per gallon. Go see for yourself. Also, the subsequent rise in gas prices can be seen to coincide with the botched Iraq operations, a poor response to Katrina, and now tension over Iran. Z Added: Oh, and Feb 1999 it was 88.5 cents a gallon. I've got a picture of myself, in late '98 I believe, at a gas station in Northern VA with a buddy of mine (he had just purchased a used 'vette, hence the picture). In the background is the pricing (unintentional). It was .87 for 87 ;) heh, too bad i'll never see that again in my lifetime. but since bush has ordered a 'probe' into price gouging, everything will be *just fine* now... Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell