lurch

@Sam: No offense taken. I'm not so prickly or ego reliant that I can't stand having somebody misquote how well I did. In 2 years' time, who's going to remember anyway? It was just a Bronze. Looks good on my wall. I'm happy with it. Re: trouble: I'm thinking most likely its that DOD testing thing. Things I noticed: 1: In Gransee we powered each unit up until blinky light right before getting in the plane, shutting it off, then restarting at 9k. No jumps were lost, I got green blinking every time, -in- the plane regardless of where in the plane it was. I know the things were ground tested here but I don't think anyone was following that exact procedure to start. When my first data dump got nothing, I started doing this. One jump later I started getting results... may be just coincidence, maybe not. May just be they quit the interference-causing activity at that time. No way to tell. 2: Last jump I kept the GPS turned on all the way up and physically held to the window most of the ride up and watched it. I don't think mountains had anything to do with problem... I had green blinky for most of the ride, then in the last 3000 feet of the climb it began blinking erratically, visibly gaining and losing satellite lock every few seconds. Window view or not, it did it. Joel was sitting opposite side of plane from me. He had two, both working fine, and offered one to me since it looked like mine was about to conk out entirely. When I reached over to his side of the plane, (left/pilot side) I had mine in hand, and as long as I held it in the same space Joel and Robi were occupying on that side of the plane the erratic blinking stopped and mine worked as well. I ended up physically holding my wing with both GPS's in it, (one in wing pocket one dropped into wing root) into the left half of the plane's interior so they could get a view out the left windows in the last minutes before exit. Result: Both units worked and recorded roughly the same track. I didn't look at it myself but when Jarno checked em he said they both got stuff and the stuff agreed with each other. What I'm thinking is either busy/tested satellites making the devices selectively directional, or just the interference itself chewing up the signals on us in-flight. The jump runs were awesome on this, naturally straight lines home. After every window, from 6000 feet on down was enough time to pull some nice long planeouts and run home. Those post-window planeouts were MUCH longer than the period on the ground in which I was booting the unit and making sure I had a lock. I had units inside my wing where in-flight they had a huge wide view of the sky for as long as they could have wanted. By all logic, even IF they had no lock when I exited, they should have long since got a perfect lock in midflight. Above the mountains, zero obstacles, nothing in between it and sky except 2 layers of nylon fabric. And still, I got nothin till second half of the comp. Personally I'd put money on Migs' contribution, this DOD notification. Our stuff was getting chewed up in midflight. There was stuff we did differently than Gransee, (exit order, timing, number of jumps per run, whether or not each unit was pre-booted right before boarding) but none of that should have made squat for a difference 45 seconds after exit. But some of us all our stuff was completely wiped out. I'd bet if we held the comp today everything'd work fine. Seems kinda open and shut case to me... DOD says "we're fucking with it and it'll be unreliable today" and it was. We were on the edge of their interference zone and I bet we got a good dose of it. I wouldn't be surprised if my directional observations in the plane actually meant that when I was holding the GPS to the pilots side, the bulk of the plane was shielding the device from some of the interfering signal. Maybe they were generating a lot of HF radio noise with some high energy multibilliondollar killer whizbang. The DOD is known to have a lot of such toys. China Lake wouldn't happen to be roughly due north or due south of us would it? Anyway my bet is, we get no such issues with future comps unless the DOD happens to have issued such a notice that day, too. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

"In this event, to prevent cheating etc the flysights where provided by the organization, and hence giving a 0 for no data or inaccurate data is a little harsh in my opinion.. " Why so? What else could they possibly do, cancel the whole thing? My first runs were my best. I didn't start getting useful GPS tracks till I'd splashed off all my energy and started feeling beat. One in Distance I was neck and neck with Tony, the only two to make it as far as the road. I'll never know which of us rocked that round...both our data were lost. I think all my first four runs were lost. It sucked, but I just kept banging out the jumps hoping if its a satellite issue we'll get new ones over horizon soon, and holding GPS against the window on the ride up hoping to score in what jumps I could get by sunset. Half the competitors' jumps were lost. What number should they replace the zero with, 50%? I have some ideas about why we might have had these issues, stuff I noticed was done differently here... The reduced altitude part of that, a few other details I'll discuss with Spot later. I also noticed which side of the plane the GPS was on mattered...one side kept lock, one side lost it while I was trying to figure out why my own kept cutting out before exit. Thanks to Joel for contributing the spare device he was packing when mine got funky, allowing me to compare the behavior of two of them in realtime in the plane in the last few minutes before exit. I used em to take some observations. GPS worked fine in Gransee, I think theres some procedures we can implement here that can help, or at least cut the odds of data loss, control for a few things. The event had its major glitches, but I think everyone involved did a spectacular job doing the best possible under the conditions. I didn't even get judged on what I think were my best runs and I'm ok with that. Everyone else was working under the same random-zero handicap I was. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

(Big grin) Agreed. It wasn't "against me", it just wasn't as much to my advantage as it might have been. I was really dependent on that extra 2000 feet at the top to get distance. But what kind of loser would I be if I only competed when things are in my favor? FAR better to step up and do the best I can with what I have to work with and I -Thoroughly- enjoyed the challenge. I don't CARE. Any conditions, any set of rules, throw down the gauntlet and I'll bring the ruckus. First class event in EVERY way. I have ZERO complaints... although whoevers on maintenance for satellites needs to get on it cause they fell down on the job bigtime. It was an honor and privilege to attend. And we had no backstabbing...no politics... no whining, no lame suit wars... Alien, Tony and PF, all at the same table with a common goal...flying our hearts out. God, DAMN was it fun! One of the best most satisfying events I've attended, and thats quite a few by now. Very happy. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Ok guys Just some perspective I'm the light floaty guy. This comp was weighted against me 2 different ways... one, the lack of Time category eliminated my best discipline and left me committed to a comp in my weakest areas. Two, which ended up mattering far more, the 11000 foot exit left me 2000 feet short of the dive I needed to get the kinetic energy necessary for a light guy to take on heavier guys in distance. AND it screwed me over in Speed as well, since I had much less acceleration time. I predicted that the missing 2000 feet of attack setup time was going to cost me about 30KPH in Speed and thus eliminate me almost entirely. I was right almost to the K, my best at Gransee topped out at 248 KPH, this comp I topped out at around 220. I'm wearing a medal around my neck to bed tonight that I earned in my weakest category because it DID inspire me to pull out the absolute best possible performance I could, multiple disadvantages bedamned. A REAL ninja shouldn't be afraid to take on all opponents even when all is weighted against you...just makes you stronger. I figured theres more honor in 3'rd in a comp weighted against me than 1'st in a time comp where I'm almost God against anyone on the planet. I'd prefer to see all 3 categories represented at future comps... but nothing was gonna stop me from stepping up for the sake of sheer gallantry and sportsmanship. Against the likes of the people at this comp, what possible other course of action? Honor and respect demand it. I had a BLAST!!! Quibble about rules till the sun sets. Set the rules any way you like. We came for the glory and unity and we got it. I feel like a million dollars... and if my readers had been here for this incredible fun event, you would too. The quality of people I got to hang out with was unreal. Robi. Jarno. The Legendary Scotty B. Douglas Spotted Eagle. Zack. Miguel. Sattler. Omnia. Cate. People of unlimited audacity and mindblowing gallantry. I could go on for a half hour listing names I call friends all of whom will be greeted with hero's welcome when they arrive in Valhalla someday. I'd keep going but I don't wanna leave anyone out...Joel. OJ. Lawrence. I could keep going, and going, and going... YOU PEOPLE ROCK!!! WHAT A RIDE!!! (insert customary Lurch howl here...you'll have to imagine it cause I can't type it) -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Holy crap. You're 350 out the door? Biggest wingsuiter I've heard of yet. What you say about getting not much better fallrate from a Mach says a lot about the physics you develop. Limited fallrate attenuation but nearly unlimited thrust. I'd LOVE to fly with you someday. I'd learn a LOT about dynamics from that flight, be some of the weirdest profiles I ever flew to keep up with you. If I can at all. Your top speed horizontally has got to be INSANE. What kind of fallrates/forward speeds can you do? What's your top speed, do you even know? I can't even make an educated guess, but I know you have a phenomenal amount of potential and kinetic energy to work with. Biggest bird I've flown with yet was Darius, best guess around high 200's in a GTI. Not much wing, dropped like a stone till he built up speed, then he was the fastest moving thing I ever saw in my life. I had to cut the corner on a 1 mile circle to intercept him because I could NOT move that fast through the air, period. That was a long time ago and I've become a lot faster since then, but you'd challenge me and it'd be one hell of a high energy skydive. If you ever get to Pepperell, Massachusetts look me up and we'll do some serious flying. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

All of above is gospel. I might suggest adding this as a progress guide: Stick with the small suit until you have become so comfy in it that flips, spins etc do not disorient you or catch you by surprise. At some point your recovery gets so fluid and automatic that flat spins or anything like them just don't happen to you because you recover in half a twist. At that point you're ready for big wings. I stuck with a Birdman GTI for my first 500 flights. Learned a lot that way. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Exactly. You keep flying the (car, canopy, aircraft, whatever) until it disintegrates around you. If Captain Sully had been the type to leave it to god, 168 people wouldn't have walked away from the only successful airliner water landing in history. You do not give up and you do not let go of the controls until everything stops. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

"Oh, I see...you have created yourself this scarecrow god made of straw simply to despise it. ...typical. " Not at all. And, might I add, what a vicious imagination you have. My attitude is far more benign. Its simple. It doesn't even matter whether you think I'm picking on some vicious caricature idea of god, or the one that fits the definition that -you- believe in, or any other. Prayer: The act of holding an inner monologue, often spoken aloud, with the earnest intention of communicating with and typically asking favors of, intervention from, or supervision by, one's top rank deity of choice, typically referred to as "god", defined as the creative force of the universe with certain supposed characteristics they are certain of, including the certainty that they know what said deity wants, and will reward evidenceless faith by direct intervention, if asked a certain way. This is called magical thinking. Its no different when you do it than it was when the Romans did. I don't even...(I'll invent a new word: Devangelize!) devangelize about it, I do not directly object to prayer, I politely respect it and leave it alone when I see it. I just interpret it as another flavor of meditation behavior. Whatever helps you calm your mind. Its the insistence that yours defines reality that bothers people. I knew a tai-chi guy once who was just as bad with it, endlessly bringing everything back to all about how if you'd just learn to move your chi like this you could fix bla bla bla. When he can light up a light bulb with it, I'll be impressed. Until then its just another mind game franchise. However literal-minded expectation of divine intervention upon request is both irrational and incredibly hazardous thinking. And it is a massive waste of time especially in a crisis. Intense Belief with a capital B is a very powerful and useful tool if used rationally, actually. I just choose to use it conciously. In your case, when you hit rock bottom and converted wholeheatedly to hardcore christianity, you chose a certain specific insane program to believe in, and used the strength of that belief to get control of yourself and get your life together. Congratulations. With no sarcasm whatsoever. I may think the cultural I.D. of the technique you used to be a bit silly but that doesn't take away from the nature of the achievement itself. I just think its a shame you'll never let yourself take credit for your own salvation because you're stuck with the aftereffects of rational judgement lockout you had to accept to run the program and achieve the goal in the first place. The program you are running will not allow you to comprehend the previous paragraph. But I can give you a thumbnail gist your religion may at least allow you to consider: God didn't do it. You did by creating self discipline off that belief. I prefer deliberate use of belief. I think it should be rational. Tied to reality, it actually WORKS. I believe "I can fix a..." whatever. I start with that belief even though at first I usually do not fully understand the problem. I am starting from a slightly irrational position of faith. But it is faith based on rationality. Previous experience solving problems, plus previous experience solving them even when I did not at first think they were soluble. Persistent effort has succeeded in initially impossible-looking circumstances. If I learn enough it will again. One way or another, it always has. Surprise: Us atheists can make leaps of faith, too, you know. My objection is to the idea of surrendering your will to your imaginary X and letting IT solve the problem. It won't. Reality does not work that way. We had a lady at my factory for awhile. Cute, nice little old lady, always struck me as ever so faintly dotty, though, like everything she said was in reply to a slightly different conversation than everyone else was having. I overheard a conversation in the cafeteria once about driving in snow and ice. Now, my take: I deal with it by buying a jeep, investing in serious tires, using the 4wd and driving to the conditions. I read the road and expect hidden ice when hidden ice is possible. I know how to threshold brake, steer through a slide, deliberately powerslide, and use grazing/half-plowing contact with snowbanks as last ditch emergency braking. I drive planning for unexpected slides, and increase my following distance by as much as 10x normal to make DAMN sure I don't slide into anybody. This is responsible and rational. I haven't hit shit since I was 19 years old. Driving in winter is fun and challenging and its no problem if I'm not stupid. I don't pray about the storm or ask my favorite god to deliver it from us or protect me from it, I just handle it and its no big deal. Everyone else is going off about how they're afraid of the next storm and how bad its going to be. (I say nothing: Jeep can handle 30 inches easily. I'm looking forward to it because driving it in storms is fun, done slowly.) And this lady says "But sometimes if it spins all the way, you just have to let go of the wheel and leave it in Jesus' hands." With total sincerity. Then I understood. The lady is just plain nuts. And sooner or later, she's going to do that in traffic and kill somebody. Yay, belief. (Facepalm) -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

"If you have no unsolvable problems you are presenting yourself as the smartest, richest, most powerful person on the planet. Or, you are just a young man that has not ventured very far from safety. " Now, THAT, is so much bullshit. Pardon me. Atheist here. 35 year old adventurer. Have spent much of my life rather far from safety and I like it that way. Entire life has been an exercise in "road less travelled"... I am neither rich nor "powerful". I'm fairly smart but hardly the brightest in the world. I don't have any insoluble problems. Some difficult ones, yeah, and some I can't do much about. Some, the solution is to abide and just let it go. But off the top of my head I can't think of any problems I personally have that are insoluble. I can't think of a single problem I've ever had in which begging assistance or favors from nonexistent imaginary beings would be of any utility. Or having any belief in such. Further, most cases I've been in where a "theist" would resort to prayer, I've found that initiating rational thought and methodical problem-solving behavior was far more productive. You go ahead, fall on your knees, abject yourself and beg, I'll just stand up like a human being and fix whats broken or learn to deal and find a workaround if it can't be fixed. While you're still begging help from a silent vacuum I'll be long since moved on to the next problem. Irony: I put a lot more "faith" in the atheists I know because they're MUCH better in a crisis. They have no impulse to throw up their hands, go helpless and start begging for help. They know there is no help but what we make, and so, like me, when the shit hits the fan they just start handling it. "Beg for help from unicorns" is simply not in their option list. Nor mine. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Nothing will have fried outright: Problem is dried beer on contact pads. Very deep inside keyboard structure: have to disassemble keyboard to individual pieces to clean effectively. Your motherboard and hard drives seem to have survived or it would not boot: but you must not get any more water in it. To have any chance of fixing this you've got to remove the keyboard from the laptop. The laptop itself will not survive immersion, nor would most of its parts such as screen, internal power supply, motherboard, and especially hard drives. But just the keyboard subassembly if you can get all the delicate electronics off of it may survive a thorough dunking if the water is pure. If you can open laptop and remove keyboard, I would suggest thoroughly rinsing keyboard, (preferably in a few gallons of distilled water, best you can do, electronics industry uses deionized water, not the sort of thing found in average kitchen). Thoroughly dry, preferably in very warm place. To really do it right you should bake the moisture out of it, controlled environment bake at about 120 degrees. At home as a kid, lacking a lab oven I'd do it by hanging it a few feet above a high wattage light bulb or baking it in a towel on top of a big TV back when all TVs were huge and emitted major heat. To avoid damaging it by heat, make sure it gets good and hot but not too hot to handle in your bare hands. Much hotter and you risk melting something. Reassemble. This MAY save it. It also may finish destroying it, but the keyboard unit itself is almost certainly totalled anyway. Since its already ruined, got nothing to lose by trying. If you can't buy a new keyboard for that laptop you're probably out of luck. Other potential problem is, beer may have actually destroyed some flexboard. Older technology was more tolerant but I recently was given a coke-soaked keyboard as an if-you-can-save-it gift and it turned out to be unsaveable-the acids in the coca cola actually etched the traces clean off the transparent plastic flexboard the keyboard used as a core. If that same technology and trace chemistry is in use in that laptop, the beer may have done the same. I'd try the pure water rinse myself, but be ready to order a new keyboard and assume probable failure. Modern electronics just aren't as fixable as they used to be. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Why? Because I was scared of "missing the boat" in life and it seemed like a suitably impossible ambition. Same as many, I had dreams of flight as a child. They were nice but depressing because I knew in reality, that awesome flying sensation will never happen. I never really connected that desire with skydiving. Fast forward 20 years, I'd been kicking around various factories, no particular career, a scraggly heavy metal loser with a beat up 4x4, small-time adventurer. Going nowhere. I was watching friends settle into grindingly repetitively normal lives. Couldn't see any escape from it myself. Watch movies or get any media exposure and its just frustrating... there are people out there living The Life, and they ain't here. They're always somewhere else. I was getting increasingly nervous that one of these days I was going to wake up 68 years old having never done anything extraordinary with my life and realize I'd missed the one and only opportunity I was ever going to have to really LIVE. Long time ago running with a carnival I stumbled on Skydive Pepperell. As a 19 year old carny, the 220$ tandem was more than I made in a week. Soon as I saw the price I shook my head in frustration and walked out. But not without a long wistful look back seeing these laughing hooting people landing. Impossible dream, but wouldn't it be awesome to be one of THEM...? Years later with a job that paid enough, I came back and did a tandem. Barely remember it really. Hell of a treatment for depression. Just total mind-annihilating sensory overload. Staggered around for the next several days in a shocked happy daze, like holy crap I don't believe what just happened. But damn, that was cool. Did one a year for a few years. Each one blew my mind and left me in a happy daze for quite awhile. I wanted more. Began considering AFF, found out it cost more money than I'd ever had at one time in my life and shelved it for a few more years. But I started saving. Then one day armed with several thousand dollars and a kamikaze attitude of get an A-license or die trying, I marched onto the DZ out of nowhere and signed up. I honestly figured it was a suicide mission. I was out of my depth, I was definitely NOT as badass as THOSE people and I was pretty certain I was going to panic, screw up and get killed. But I figured better to go out in an honest to god attempt to live a little and achieve something, even if that thing was beyond my measure and I failed at it. It didn't turn out that way. First season of jumping was the most glorious summer of my life to date, scared witless and loving it, soundtrack to my life at the time was Andrew W.K's "I Get Wet", an album of rousing anthems that were perfect for taking on the world with a maniacal grin. I had my A-license by midsummer and began to believe, just a little, that maybe I've got what it takes to survive this after all. I'm not dead yet, right? Late that season I first learned of the existence of wingsuits. I saw a video of a couple of early birds in red and white Classics surfing a cloud together and it raised the hair on my neck like "My GOD... they can DO that!?" Some, at the forefront of it, could fly for almost 2 whole minutes per skydive. Most importantly though, I suspected what flying one of those things might feel like. There was a certain hunch, like that ultimate dream of flight, that totally impossible one, that one I used to wake up from feeling like a million bucks because I could fly, only to be disappointed because it could never be real... No way... Maybe. Just maybe. End of second season I had 200 jumps and suddenly encountered an early Birdman instructor. Ready or not, here's your chance, take it! I took it. I figured it was gonna go one of two ways. One, I was gonna feel like I just chucked myself out a plane with my arms and legs tied, struggle unstable the whole way down in a nightmare panic and say screw this, if I survived it. The other way I hoped it'd go, it'd feel like the most natural thing in the world. Anyone who'd seen my first 2 years could have told you everything I'd done up till then led up to that moment. Anyway, up I went, jumped out, and the second I spread the wings and simply stopped falling, I knew this was it. That flying sensation I'd been chasing after. It was real. I had a Classic and he had a top of the line S-3 but I left my instructor behind like he was standing still, last I saw of him he was a small golden dot way back there somewhere. Fast forward 8 more years and 2500+ wingsuit flights and I'm still at it, and those years have been a glorious whirlwind of adventure. I can fly for 4 minutes and around 7 miles depending on winds. I've competed internationally and participated in the biggest and baddest wingsuit formations ever done. I've surfed clouds that were so cosmic I was left speechless and giggling. I've got the most incredible collection of high quality friends imaginable to share it all with. I get hugged a lot. I do my damndest to take care of my friends as well as humanly possible in return. I've spent more of my life than I have any right to, laughing. I have absolutely no regrets. I would not trade this life for any amount of money, or anything at all. If someone told me they could rewind my life and I get to do it over, but they give me 10 million dollars under the condition that I never, ever try to fly, I would tell them to get screwed. And that fear I used to have, that one about missing out on life? Yeah, that fear has had its ass kicked. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Why's everyone picking on Billvon lately? Somebody posted a pic of him doing just that next to what looked like some tugboats at some nasty industrial dock last week. Theres no evidence he was drunk at the time. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Ok heres another technique, or description of: Sprawl out. Being a featherbutt in a "small" megasuit (SBird) going low isnt really an issue, but if I need to climb, the actual motion I use is rather like sprawling out flat facedown on a mattress with my face turned to the side. Maximum surface area minimum drag so I don't slow down and fall behind. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

It could be worse, you could be a Slug God. An old buddy of mine, everywhere he goes, his doorstep attracts garden slugs. By the dozens. Certain times of year its like some gruesome self sacrifice where they throw themselves to their inevitable sticky doom underfoot as a demonstration of their devotion. Touching, but icky. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Regaining altitude? I do it, Like THIS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk6Ij-KrvPk I think I got an extra half a grand or so out of that. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

I'd say just one thing. A quick little speech, delivered in hasty fashion cause I've really gotta split. I'm assuming the wannabe bird already knows I'm one of the guys teaching wingsuit around here. Speech follows: " Hey. Look. I know you wanna go fly that thing. But just because it has become popular and somewhat common doesn't mean its as safe as the casual attitudes about em would lead you to believe. There is a LOT to learn about it. There are a few parts of wingsuit flying where a split seconds' mistake can kill you. I've already lost one friend to such a mistake and he was a veteran bird who knew what he was doing...he just let his guard down for a second. We burned a candle for him later. You do NOT wanna mess with this without experienced backup. I'll be back on the DZ next (state availability) around noon and I can teach you what you need to know and take you up for a proper First Flight Course then. (Corny Arnold accent) If you want to live, come with me. (end Corny Arnold accent) Gimme a number, we'll hook up later and I'll see what I can do to make sure you survive your first few flights, welcome you to our flock all proper-like. Just Don't. Go it. Alone. Whaddya say?" --------------------------------------------------- We have an informal system in place at my home dropzone. When a wingsuit shows up at my DZ, Manifest sends em to me and lets me know theres a new wingsuit on the DZ looking for me. Most often, its a self sufficient if somewhat inexperienced bird with a dozen to a hundred flights under their belt already. A few times its been a clueless newb, and we welcomed em in, taught em, built em a flock or two designed around their skill level and they left happy. Once, I got a faker. Strange but true. Weird guy shows up from, he says, New York. Something about his manner sets off alarm bells. Couldn't place the problem but sketchy. Maybe he's actually from New Jersey. "How many flights you got?" "About 60. Mostly solos." Says he did his first flight course in Florida. Vague. "Last year. Awhile ago. I probably forgot a lot of it." Guy has an old Classic. Ok... Go up with him for a basic 2-way. Guy appears to have next-to-no idea how to put his suit together. Since I'm used to working with new birds uncertain about their gear I helped him with it, took up the role of instructor automatically just because the guy seemed to need it. I walked us through the skydive, and I swear he was the rawest "60-jump wonder" I ever saw. The basic ideas seemed novel to him. Now very suspicious I gave him the benefit of the doubt but sneaked most of the critical parts of an FFC into the excessively elaborate dirt dive. This did NOT include basic body position but did include things like a dramatized demonstration of exit and pull technique. Get out and it is instantly clear: Guy has NO idea what he is doing. None. Nobody taught him. He is attempting to bullshit his way into wingsuit flying by claiming he already has "some" experience. He adopts broken RW posture fighting the suit and immediately starts bobbling around on his centerline, feet up on his butt, falling straight down. Backwards, really. Never seen anything like it. It was actually quite a challenge to stay with this guy, I had to bust out some ninja tricks I don't get to use all that often, wingsuit freefly stuff, reared up on my tail, countered with my armwings and did a static kneelfly stall to stay next to him. Normally I'd use a headdown to stay with a student, but they typically have SOME working wing area and thus some forward movement so its just wingsuit Atmo. This guy had inadvertently discovered how to do an actual wingsuit backslide, and the fallrate was such that headdown wouldn't work unless it was wide with more drag than headdown linear. Since I haven't yet figured out a functioning Wingsuit Daffy that does NOT include 900 RPM rotation, it was reverse kneelfly, all the way. No WAY do you make 60...60! wingsuit flights like that. The worst wingsuit pilots I've ever seen, self-taught, had still at least figured out basic forward movement and suit handling by jump 5, maybe 10. I stuck with him till about 6k, then flopped flat and took off. I didn't want to be anywhere near the guy when he pulled. After landing I conceal most of my attitude to see his without biasing it by my own reaction to the jump. I want to know what the guy is thinking. He is somewhat evasive yet downcast. Appears to understand that he had performed an epic fail and resents it but has no clue how he has failed. He knows he tried to get past the guard and it didn't work but he doesn't understand why. After all, its just like regular skydiving with wings on right? My face probably gives it away. Stoneface still communicates a lot. I ask "How many flights you say you got again?" "Sixty." (I'm thinking shoulda said six, I might've believed THAT.) "I said they were mostly solos." "How many with somebody else?" I don't know, 5 or 6?" "Alright well, whoever taught you left out some basic stuff so you're going to need some lessons if you're going to fly that thing again or with others here ok?" This was not ok. Guy folded up and left. Never saw him again. Whew. Fortunately with that suit and that skill he is extremely unlikely to pose much of a threat to others. He couldn't have stayed with anything to save his life. But if he'd had an R-Bird... or bigger... and suits that scale are now common and cheap... it might have turned out different. Watch out birds, cause That Guy really IS out there, and he is wandering from dropzone to dropzone looking for a good place to splat on your watch. And he is on his way to your place right now. If he hasn't been there already, he will. Final judgement: I was looking at an old RW guy, few hundred jumps, thinks he's better than he is, convinced theres no big deal about wingsuits and resents being told he should seek instruction since with several hundred RW jumps he already knows everything and can handle this easily without some punk 30-something telling him how. I bet he doesn't jump anymore but there are others. Nuff said. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Hey, leave BillVon out of this! (My god... is it just me, or has he gained a little weight lately?) Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

(Thinking) *Are you kidding? Thought you'd been in these forums longer than that, they're just getting started....*) (Munching) You mow, (crunch crunch) Moo guys mipe (crunch crunch) gep a lill furver wiv thif debape...(crunch crunch crunch...gulp) if we all stuck to the point with a little less sniping. Just sayin' arguing the merits of your position is more effective than taking a poke at the other guy. I see merit in both sides of argument, but not sure one needs to "beat" the other. Arguing about the wake turbulence strikes me as kind of weak argument against weights. I've flown with big guys in suits up to X scale. Big guy in X is a lot more wake than Doc in any suit with or without weights. I chose different suit last time I needed adjustment because it was conveniently available and the common sense solution to the problem. If there'd been no other suit to borrow, I would have resorted to snagging a weight belt off a friend instead. Whats the big deal? Doc doesn't wanna have to keep a fleet of suits and uses weights to get more usable range out of his gear. Wheres the problem? I've seen formations trashed by people in the wrong suits, but never by a slightly jacked up wingsuit loading. Maybe its just me but I don't see Doc's approach as being worth arguing against. I mean, Doc could avoid all this just by eating too much for awhile. He can gain 10 lbs, ditch the weights and nobody'll notice the difference except it'll make the antiweight side feel better. Strange. The arguments presented are mostly sound logic but the argument itself strikes me as somewhat irrational given the range of suits bodies and weights we fly with. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

(Pops back in to watch argument, offers some popcorn to Matt) Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Butters, sometimes there is more than one right way to do things, you know. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Hmm, I can agree that weights aren't the way forward- as a light critter I would benefit more than most from the use of them but I preferred to try to learn to work under all circumstances without them. And generally, if another bird told me they thought they -needed- weights I'd tell em learn to fly better and teach em how, compensate with more arch, or wings further back, or (gasp) bent legs and such. I just object to beatin' on Doc for thinking outside the box. Our freeform variability and creativity is our strength. Doc's doing something different and learning subtle things about artificially loaded wingsuit properties the rest of us know nothing about and this should be applauded not criticized. He's doing what an academic does... adding to our community knowledge base. And actually I think Challenges and Records are precisely where such experimentation is likely to pay off, by the way. One of the biggest challenges in these events is getting everyone flying in close enough to the same bandwidth for the formation to work. Granted, I've never had any trouble dialing in to any formation I've been in to date except that vert from last year, but if I did, I'd either switch suits like I did then or add weight. Weights could also come in handy for making formations of visual symmetry... for example we could be trying to build a precise 7-way docked line. Now we could do it with a mismatched assortment of suits and body types, which results in the difficulties we typically see, where some birds tend to float, some tend to want to outrun the rest of the line and so on. Very hard to get everyone flying THAT precisely relative to each other especially since docked flight restricts one's adjustability quite a bit. If I were organizing such a 7-way I'd try to recruit 7 birds all flying the same suit, then fine tune it by adding weights to the lighter ones including myself if necessary. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

"Against" meaning he hit it as he was going over? What a wuss. Thats the problem with this sport, buncha halfhearted wannabes lacking mad skillz and commitment. If he'd had any stones he'd have cleared it clean. Friggin' underachiever. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Whoa, hold it lemme get this straight, you're gonna hassle the Professor for using weights with a wingsuit? Although I haven't yet tried it myself, sooner or later I will because I'd like to play around with varying my mass and I think being skinny but massive could be fun and useful. Bet I could hit some interesting new top speeds for example. I'd also bet the extra mass would jack up the tightness and precision of my flying in close quarters flocking since it would allow the use of more effective surface area of wing at any given fallrate. Same wingsuit higher wingload. I think it'd feel like a small but effective engine upgrade. I'd lose a little off the bottom end minimum fallrate but accelerate downward or laterally a bit faster and with a slightly higher maximum ground speed. Granted, the idea of using weights strikes me as oddly counter to the purpose of the wings in the first place, but if, for example it'd be handy for tuning a suit for faster falling stuff theres absolutely no logical reason why NOT to. I'm not buying the disturbance argument. Being very light I am easily pushed around by others' disturbances from any direction. So much so that I can easily sense when there is another bird above or to my side without looking because their presence nudges me either sideways or down a bit. And I gotta tellya, no matter HOW touchy the flock, I don't care if it was a double 5-way docked line vertical stack, the Professor weighing 10 pounds more isn't going to have the slightest detectable effect on my ability to dock on/work next to him. His general area wave is gonna be maybe ever so slightly perceptibly more energetic IF you happen to even be sensitive enough to notice it and discern that it was a little weaker without the weights. Now, you telling me you can't deal with a flock in which theres more than Doc's weights' worth of variation? Please.

Another funny, normally I keep my ragged-out S-6 handy as a backup suit, but go figure, for that vert event I left it at home, didn't think I needed it. Fortunately Mike had a spare he was willing to loan me. Looked weird as all hell with 2 Purple Mikes in 1 formation and its the first time in years I've been seen flying anything other than my usual blue and white colors, but damn was it a lot of fun. Right suit for the job makes all the difference. I went from spending all my concentration trying to contain an S-Bird to instant pinpoint precision in Mike's suit. It made it EASY... I could open the suit out to 3/4 and hold my slot (or, ahem... Justin's ) without even thinking about it. Maybe I should have thought about it actually... I'm still a little embarassed about that slot-stealing episode. -B Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

Damn, didnt figure the forum was that active. After a minute I figured what I said didnt contribute much to the conversation so I removed it. I'll put it back to avoid confusion. ------------------------------------------------------------- Hell. Last vertical challenge I attended I had to ditch the S-Bird in favor of Purple Mike's P2. Fallrate was way high, forward speed rather low, big suit was washing all over the place even with my wings behind my back. I can fly anything, under any conditions, but trying to force that suit to do the job would have just been stupid. The only way to hold that slot was to fly with armwings completely shut down and my tail squeezed almost entirely shut. Looked like crap and flew worse. Like driving a car on 3 flat tires. If I'd insisted on continuing that way I would have ruined the event. It only took two tries for me to ditch the big suit with no hesitation. Granted, I'd have liked the whole formation to jack it up a bit since higher forward speed and lower fallrate would make the whole flock work better in addition to making it easier on me, but you work with what you've got, not what you'd like to have, and Mike's P2 was the right tool for the job. Now can we please, please outgrow that snooty elitist "I'm too good to bend my legs a little to fly with others" routine? Its getting old. I'm 135 lb and can sustain mid-20's as long as I damn well please. If I insisted on only ever flying flat and wide and legs out I'd be flying alone. -B ----------------------------------------------------- Scuse me. As Teh Skwrl noted, we do get a lot of "Zomg American flying" comments. Funny thing is, for example I've repeatedly seen the Soul Flyers guys show up at big events here and they often can't hang... falling out of even easy formations... the small triangular suits popular in that crowd may be nimble but no performance at all. Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.