BMAC615

You bring up an interesting subject of the semantics of “swoop.” I’ll throw it to everyone in this thread: “What is a swoop and why do skydivers swoop?”

The impetus of this thread was a fatality of a very skilled and accomplished canopy pilot. We can agree that many (most) of the injuries and deaths are people who watch the accomplished canopy pilots and rush and/or skip steps to do high performance landings. AND THAT’S THE PROBLEM. There are a lot of people who minimize the risk involved in high performance landings which leads some people go into it without recognizing how little margin of error one has. Further, the very accomplished canopy pilots have a financial incentive to allow/encourage people to rush and/or skip steps. It is extremely rare for a canopy coach or school to tell people they aren’t ready for the course they just signed up for or to have a very difficult conversation about their canopy progression choices. Too many people think they are doing the homework and have a false sense of security because “They took a couple canopy courses with a world champion” and then fly themselves into the ground.

By your logic, because Sean Chuma has more than 7,000 BASE jumps and hasn’t died, BASE jumping is very safe, right? Swooping is not very safe and that attitude is what has kept it the number one killer and number one cause of serious injuries year over year. You think the intentional low turn injuries and deaths are only stupid people with no common sense or training?

I’ve got one and trust my life with it.

Appreciate the responses. BTW, I voted for you weeks ago ;-)

Thanks for the response. I agree that most would not pay a membership fee to USPA if it weren’t compulsory. I also agree that most members see little to no value in USPA, it’s staff and governing body. What value do you feel USPA currently provides to the 40k+ paying members? Secondly, how would implementing your proposed programs increase value for those members that, if it weren’t a requirement, would make them want to be a paying member?

Hi David, I see improve member services/engagement is at the top of your list: what programs do you believe should be implemented to accomplish those goals? What metrics will you put in place to measure success?

Megawatt Motor for Aviation

How would you be affected if USPA de-prioritized the support and promotion of CP activities?

Cool.

Are you jumping at a USPA DZ?

I started skydiving in 1993. Here we are 30 years later and people are still flying themselves into the ground. For a while now, I’ve been asking the question, “Why is this still happening and how can we solve this problem?” Frankly, I don’t know why I even care. It would be a whole lot easier to say, “what other people do is not my problem.” However, if that were everyone’s attitude, no one would take any of the volunteer positions with USPA. So, I came here for understanding and a little hope that maybe there’s a way to make a positive change in this area. It’s now clear to me why it’s still happening and how to solve this problem. I’m glad we can agree that there’s not a real downside if UPSA deprioritizes promotion/support of canopy piloting competitions. I haven’t seen any data that concludes that high performance landings or canopy piloting competitions have any real upside. It doesn’t increase memberships for USPA or profits for DZs or provide any real tangible benefit for the vast majority of the membership. I think a good first step in solving the landing injury/death problem is a simple de-prioritization of promotion of HPCP activities. For example, no photos from CP competitions on the cover of Parachutist magazine; request CP schools to not use photos of HP landings in advertisements for B-License courses; and USPA could softly dial back the promotion/support of HPCP competitions and/or demonstrations. As for what to do next, yes, USPA should be focused on chipping away at reducing and eliminating the causes of injury or death. Let’s take a look at USPA’s Mission: to promote safe skydiving through training, licensing and instructor qualification programs to ensure skydiving’s rightful place on airports and in the airspace system to promote competition and record-setting programs BSRs and recommendations exist to reduce injury and death while skydiving. Historically, when the safety and training committee recognized a trend that was causing, or could cause, injury or death, they created a BSR or recommendation to address it. That’s why we have minimum opening altitudes, water training and minimum number of jumps for flying wingsuits. To say swooping isn’t going anywhere, as if USPA is powerless to the power of swooping, is naive. Injuries and deaths from low turns could go out the back door the same way injury and death from low pulling did. Whether USPA followed DZOs lead or not as @riggerbob mentioned, the result is low pulls don’t happen anymore. Let’s recognize that fewer people were injured or died as a result of low pulls than from swooping - and action was taken. Let’s be clear - low pulls have been not only nearly eliminated, but anyone who says they want to pull <1.5k almost always gets a lecture about how pulling low is dangerous, stupid and not welcome on any DZ. So, it’s possible to change the culture of all USPA DZs. Here are a couple more areas we agree: A BSR for WL restrictions is impractical. What’s an S&TA gonna do, make someone get on a scale and declare a canopy size before manifesting? Further, the liability for a DZ and USPA is too great if someone were to operate outside the WL restrictions. Also, a ban on swooping won’t work either. There are too many people within the skydiving political structure who are financially entangled with swooping for a ban to get any support. So, the only thing to do is to call on those with influence to change the culture the same way they did with low pulls.

What would be the downside for USPA’s 40,000 members if USPA decided they will no longer support/promote CP competitors or competitions?

What would be the downside for USPA’s 40,000 members if USPA decided they will no longer support/promote CP competitors or competitions?

Do you think your bias and steadfastness in your position could be keeping you from recognizing that we’ve been educating people on how to swoop for more than 30 years and we just had a YoY increase in deaths last year?

How is it that USPA was able to essentially eliminate pulling below 2.5k at USPA DZs? How is it USPA was able to eliminate skydive training for anyone under 18 years old at USPA DZs? As for the nuance of “Encourage” vs “Support,” I direct your attention to the below image:

And they provide funding for CP competitors to perform the types of landings that kill people.

How much experience do you have pulling <1.5k and BASE jumping?

I made a wedge out of 1” floor foam that has worked wonderfully for the past two years. I’m able to use a wrist altimeter mount on the chest strap or the wrist. I just used hot glue and a knife.

Nice - This is very interesting!

I love my Aurora. It is only recommended for wingsuit flying.

What is necessary is a culture shift where it becomes a commonly held belief by ALL skydivers that flying a WL >1.2 and/or doing high performance landings are akin to pulling <1.5k and BASE jumping. The cognitive bias comes from having BSRs like minimum pull altitudes to keep skydivers safe while also encouraging skydivers to fly a high wing loading and do high performance landings.

Where can I find the USPA 2023 Annual Financial Report?

Both of my statements were for the sake of clarity - not for the sake of argument. I’d be willing to bet over half of the eight fatalities that occurred in 2022 were witnessed by unsuspecting bystanders who had no idea what swooping is. I’ve intentionally been terminal at <1k in both skydiving and BASE environments. I’ve also performed high performance landings with big turns on <100 sq ft canopies. I’d say the margin for error is pretty similar for all three. I don’t think the skydiving community has come to terms with this reality. The culture is, “Pulling low is stupid because there’s no point in it and you’ll eventually make a mistake and die.” Also, “BASE is extremely dangerous and if you BASE jump long enough you will eventually die.” But somehow, “Canopy Piloting is an exciting spectator friendly sport that has potential for inclusion in the Olympics and is used as a platform to promote skydiving to the general public.” There’s some serious cognitive bias occurring in the skydiving community and it contributed to the eight deaths that occurred in 2022.

That’s not true, unless you consider wingsuits not terminal.