mbohu

I must be completely out of touch, because I'm thinking: Can't they just turn their stupid phones sideways to watch videos? I mean: We used to have to set up a projector, carry out the heavy box with the projection screen, roll it out, fiddle with getting the super-8 roll into the projector, etc.--now we can't even turn our wrist 90degrees to watch a video???!

I also remember that in the beginning, as a student the sky was always very clear and that it was only once I had a license that i experienced more traffic and saw how full it can get on opening. I assume that also had to do with pulling altitude (which was just higher than everyone else as a student) as well as, that I probably was a bit less aware of everything going on around me (I have to admit). Now--while I don't usually consciously count all the canopies opening--I generally see them all and check for the groups that I know were on the load, so I'm very aware of how busy the sky is.

I would fly together first and see how it goes with fall-rate. Also, make up your mind first what kind of jumps you want to do together. A tight-fitting freefly suit without grippers might not be the best if you want to do belly FS. On the other hand booties (which I think are really nice for FS) will create challenges if you want to mainly freefly (I like them for tracking jumps...but I get a feeling they are considered uncool by that crowd) As for manufacturers, I like BevSuits for how quickly they can deliver.

Like wolfriverjoe wrote: Vertical separation is not what's important. Think about it. Let's say jump run is relatively fast and groups exit 5 seconds after each other. If everyone pulls at the same altitude, say 3,500 feet, then how much vertical distance is there going to be in 5 seconds of canopy flight? How much does a canopy sink in 5 seconds? Not much! People pulling at slightly different altitudes, canopies sniveling shorter or longer, and people free-falling at different speeds is going to make MUCH more of a difference. So easily canopies will open at the same altitude; or later groups might even open lower than earlier groups and potentially even earlier or at the same time. So: It's all about horizontal separation. Make sure exit separation is appropriate for the ground speed of jump-run (the solo exit after the first group on the video seemed to leave only 3 seconds, which seems little separation to me on a King-Air, which is usually not that fast on jump run), make sure that exit order is set properly, know how long and in what direction you are tracking on a group jump, and DEFINITELY make sure to watch the other canopies open before you turn yours in the direction of jump run! (that's a big one for beginners. The temptation to turn straight to the landing zone is great when you don't trust your ability to get back from a long spot) There is usually also a lot of info being thrown around on the plane (landing direction, flight plans of tracking groups, ground speed of the plane, etc.) that you might not notice as a newbie (I didn't right away) and which is critical if you want to make sure you stay clear of other jumpers.

Any idea where I can get one of these floppy suits? Who even makes/sells them anymore?

Here's a good article of why the USPA increased their minimum deployment altitude (in 2013?): https://skydiveuspa.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/uspa-raises-minimum-deployment-altitude/

USPA minimum opening altitude for B to D licenses: 2500ft. Throw at 2200, average snivel until 1500 until you're under a fully open parachute and can detect any malfunction--you're already under your decision altitude...and that's if you can detect the mal before unstowing the toggles and doing a controllability check. Personally, I wouldn't make a habit of it. (And yes, I know: "back in the days" people used to open lower all the time--fatality rates also used to be more than double, certainly not only for that reason, but still) PS: I'm sure you have the experience you say you have, but should you be recommending to new jumpers who read this to open below the USPA minimum altitude for their license? Better we keep believing it's "too low", so we don't mess up your dropzone when you have to scrape us off the runway, and you wouldn't invite us low-jump-number people onto these kinds of big-ways anyway!

Thanks, angryelf. I'm going to see if I can find something baggier at the arms and legs.

Hi there, I'm wondering if anyone can give me some info on why historically we went away from the baggy, floppy suits they used in the 90s for freeflying. I just watched a lot of the videos by Olaf Zipser and his crew, and other than looking kind of 70s-isch, it seems like these suits really worked for them and they could do pretty much anything that is done today and in addition I saw some things I haven't seen anywhere else, such as head-down flying in the center of a large belly-round, and flying around the formation, diving through the center and coming back up, etc.--all while perfectly matching the fall-rate of the belly group in a head down position. It seems to me that the additional drag of the suits would make that possible (in addition to their awesome skills) and in general, having a bit more time in the air would be a good thing, no? So why doesn't anybody jump or make these suits anymore? Because they don't look cool by todays fashion? Because the form-fitting suits of today are more "clean" in the way they fly and feel? (but then, on the other hand, we fly in all kinds of regular clothes, which can't be that perfect either) I weigh 220lbs and I keep wondering if a baggier suit wouldn't help me fly a little slower and stay with lighter people, compared to the form-fitting Vertical suit I bought for the tunnel.

I didn't quite get the terminology either, in the beginning: There are 2 types of formations that can be drawn during competition. RANDOMS are single formations, such as a "round" or a "bow" and they are abbreviated with a letter (such as M or H) If you have only RANDOMS in a dive, it does not matter how you get from one formation to the next. It only matters that you break all grips between the formations and have all grips taken simultaneously on the next formation. Each formation counts as one POINT. On a BLOCK, you have two formations that have to be executed with a specific transition in between (such as: everyone does a 360 turn between the 2 formations) They have to be executed as shown (although they can sometimes be executed as a mirror image and sometimes the turns in the transition have to be in a specific direction and sometimes you can choose) BLOCKS are denoted with a number instead of a letter and are generally considered more challenging than RANDOMS, which is why they are not included in beginner draws. They count as 2 POINTS if executed correctly (as there are 2 formations) Some BLOCKS contain PIECES that turn together. For example: 2 people might stay together in the transition and not release grips, but instead turn as a whole PIECE. In the beginning this makes it a bit more challenging again, but they are really fun, when they work out. http://jumpoutofaplane.com/images/DivePool_Blocks_and_Randoms.pdf

Congrats on being safely on the ground without injuries! The main things to improve that come to my mind: Don't rent a rig that has a reserve that is that much smaller than the main (if you've never jumped that size before) and does not have an RSL. If the rental rig came from the dropzone (rather than private rental) I would at least inquire about the logic behind not putting an RSL in and having the reserve be so much smaller, if these rigs are rented mainly to students or very new jumpers. --just my opinion. I had no cutaway yet, but I did return a rental rig that I had gotten from a friend who's also a rigger, once I noticed the size of the reserve and did not feel comfortable with it. Sure, I probably would have been fine (and so were you) but do I really want to downsize 2 sizes for the first time in my skydiving career in such a situation?

I see. I heard it was supposed to help with that. I know, he didn't have one in the video. I just meant: It does not look like it would have stopped him from slipping out, if he DID have one, since the 2 attachment points for the bungee (which are visible in the video) never really move further apart than the likely length of a stretched out bungee. So the bungee only really helps in the sit position with the straps moving up because in that position your knees are spread apart--versus the position where you could potentially slip out, where your knees would be together. So sounds like this kind of flipwould never be a good idea to try out as an exit or in freefall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving#/media/File:Salto_ornamental_-_UnB.jpg

I just opened my "Roon" application (which is connected to my TIDAL account) and searched for "Freefall", hoping to have the Armin Van Buuren song on it. It wasn't, but there are about 50 songs called "Freefall" on TIDAL. Haven't listened to them all yet, of course, but I like the one from "BVSO" and the one from "Skyfall" (while not entirely my cup of tea) is clearly about base jumping or skydiving out of balloons ("the silence during the first few seconds")

The more I think about it, the less I understand how the bungee would prevent falling out of the rig. When you watch any of the videos of how you could theoretically slip out (such as this one: https://vimeo.com/96037725), the hole that you can fall through is between the 2 leg straps and the bottom of the container. During the entire video the 2 leg straps (and the attachment points of the bungee) never seem move very far apart from each other--and all the bungee does is prevent the 2 leg straps to move far apart. It seems to me that the only safe connection would be a connection from the left leg strap to the bottom of the right side of the main lift web and from the right leg strap to the bottom of the left side of the main lift web. That cross-connection would close the hole you can slip through--but the connection couldn't be too tight, otherwise it would prevent the necessary free movement of your legs--and if it was that loose it would probably create all kinds of other problems similar to the one indicated earlier in the thread (catching the pilot chute on deploy, etc) Do we really know the bungee helps? Has anyone tried to slip out of their rig with the bungee in place and has that really prevented it?

Yes!!!!!! Wonderful, how timely USPA responded and got the info out on the same day.

Yikes. Thanks for that warning!

Same happened to me yesterday on my Vortex container. The bungee they provided is extremely short, so it needs to be held in place by just a knot on each side, so it doesn't slip through. I've seen where they instead used a much longer bungee, so it forms a complete loop. That seems more secure to me, but I don't know either what's recommended.

Westerly: dbcooper was clearly being sarcastic.

That was my impression too. That's why I asked the question. I recently tried to get an R/W suit from one company and they listed it as 19 weeks(!). I got a similar suit from another company completed and shipped in less than 10 days, so I knew it wasn't about taking so long to actually get them finished. I'm also getting the feeling that maybe I should negotiate a bit more, because all the websites I go to (including Chutingstar, etc.) seem to ask for 100% payment to get the order STARTED (meaning you won't get into the queue without that payment) but looks like many of you do not pay 100% down.

OK. This might ruffle some feathers, but: Am I the only one who finds it unusual that in this industry it is common to ask for 100% of the purchase price down and then have production times that often exceed 3-4 months (or more! Basically an entire season)...not just on canopies and rigs but also on suits. I do love the companies that make our gear and anyone I've either met in person or seen on videos who is in the industry seems awesome, and driven by a true love for the sport and to support it in so many ways, but I still can't quite understand that this is (or has become) the standard in this industry. I understand that it started out with small companies or individuals just making stuff themselves and not having more capacity, but many companies now are larger (or could be if they have so many orders that it takes so long to fill them) ...and if you take 100% of the money up front there really isn't any incentive to complete the orders quicker--as a matter of cash-flow management you would have to put your attention more on getting new orders in. If it was standard to have a 50% down on order and 50% before final shipment, there would be more incentive to finish existing orders. Anyway: Just wondering if I'm the only one who is surprised at this, and has never experienced it in any other industry before. Again: I have no beef with these awesome companies, but it seems to me that we let a strange kind of habit become the standard here...unless I'm missing something.

I'm about the same size as you. As per recommendation of a 4-way belly coach I was going to get a Tony Suit--I am sure it would have been a great suit, but when I realized it was going to take 19 weeks (!) to get it and I would basically be without a belly suit for the entire season and Bev was going to get my suit ready in 10 days(!) so I could take it to an event in Eloy I was signed up for (yes, for a double-rush charge, but that was so worth it!) ...well, the decision became easy. I do not regret buying the suit at all. I had no fall-rate issues with anyone I jumped with. Looks like I could regulate the fall rate really easily (I ordered after-burners and the Magic Booties as well as a bit extra "wing" between my forearms and sides of the body--also swoop cords, but never actually used those) Absolutely happy with the suit! Just make sure you use plenty of shoe-goo if you get booties, so they last!

I had a similar experience as you--even though I wasn't too badly off, considering our DZ is medium-sized and a couple of the women at our DZ put on a once-a-month event where they would organize for sub-200 jumps jumpers (but only in the summer) Last weekend I went for 5 days to Skydive Arizona in Eloy: They had their "rookie roundup" and I actually got to do 4-ways with one of the guys from Arizona Airspeed which was unbelievably instructive--but even on regular days they have at least a belly-coach and a freefly-coach doing load organizing. Basically they jump with you for free and design appropriate dive flows. I learned more in those 5 days than probably the entire rest of my jumping career. (Especially on weekdays they are actually really grateful that you jump with them, because they get their lift ticket sponsored by the DZ) So: consider planning a trip like that. It'll cost you serious bucks for the travel and you'll do plenty jumps per day, so there is also the price for that, but the coaching/load organizing is free and I'm sure there are a couple more large drop zones in North America where you can get this as well. I'm still in a daze from all the great jumps. Blue skies! PS: For some reason, when it comes to official or unofficial load-organizing and getting groups together--there seems to be a disproportionately larger number of women taking that on, versus men. So: make friends with the SISters at your dropzone?

On the aircraft I've been jumping on: yellow: open door green: get out (or: spot and get out if save) red: don't exit --oh...I see your question: By "yellow-green" I meant yellow, then green

To be honest, I am not sure I have ever seen airlocks and know how to recognize them, but when I was at Skydive Arizona last week I saw lots of tiny canopies land and a few of them looked completely different on their noses. They did not have cells that were simply fully open in the front, but had fabric covering some part of the nose of the cells, that had smaller round openings and when they collapsed after the landing, the wing pretty much just fell down as one piece to the ground--klonk! ...like a solid piece of wing, and only then deflated. Was that something similar to airlocks? I saw quite a few of them, but didn't really have time to ask their owners about their canopies (ok, so I probably felt a bit intimidated too)

This might be a naive question but: When I first read about cross-braced canopies as well as airlocks in Brian Germain's book, I thought that these were technologies that made canopies potentially safer and better and would apply to any type of canopy (in terms of the performance range). Later I realized that "cross-braced canopy" is essentially synonymous with "extremely high performance canopy". (And I don't think airlocks or similar technologies are available in anything but the most high-performance canopies as well) Why is that? It seems to me that both technologies make canopies more stable and don't seem to have any apparent drawbacks specific to lower performance ranges or lower wing loadings (other than cost). Is there any technical reason why one wouldn't want to build, say a student canopy, with cross-bracing and airlocks, to make it more stable in thermals and other situations? Why are they only used in extremely high performance canopies? Is it just a matter of economics or is there a performance related downside to using these technologies on bigger, lower performance canopies?