Paulipod

you really do speak bollocks sometimes you are free to think what you like... so long as it doesnt affect others. If youre thought is you hate black people... fine... say you hate black people... fine.... Incite riots / get others to follow / encourage actions based on that hate... no decent coutry would let you in despite be able to spit there. Everything cant be 'allowed' or a yet-to-commit-offence paedophile would be allowed to walk around schools talking about his desires in public with no eyebrows raised. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

I dont think that the police officers are 'doing their job' by deciding to punish the town by deliberately not issuing fines. I am sure there are 'guidelines' to help identify where a fine or a warning should be issues... and I bet those guidelines dont mention 'when you need to stick it to the local authority for not paying you enough' Yes discretion should and is used... but not where a deciding factor is their own gains. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

I dont even know where to start.... but here goes... Do I think that all the guns have been handed over? No of course not, but I think alot have. Is the serious criminal detered by any form of punishment for a crime? (ie they dont think they will get caught anyway!) I would bet some are.. If I were a mugger in the UK, and I thought that if I got caught carrying a gun would get 5 years I would probably think of my alternatives. If I did have the intention to kill people, then no youre right... probably no deterent will help. It probably is a sad fact it is still too easy to get a gun, but I put that down to the stupidity of some nations giving guns to anyone willing to wait a few days and can write their name. Should we correct this problem by relaxing our laws? I think not, just tighten our control, increase our penalties and weed out the people that dont deserve to live in a safe environment. Well, instead of giving you government figures, I should maybe provide you what my mate at the pub said as my credible source. FACT. I have seen tables full of handed-in weapons that quite frankly have never been legal in the UK. And so did my mate from the pub if that helps. For some reason, you have painted a picture in your head that crimes of the nature you encounter in the US / ie Gun robbery / Gun assaults / murder happen here too... well, they dont nearly quite as often as you think. Sub 100 deaths each year, for our 55m+ population... hmm, how many ACCIDENTAL gun deaths did you say in the US? Over 800? I dont need to say more. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

Damn, I hate agreeing with PJ but a gun ban does only initially remove legal weapons HOWEVER (you knew this had to come!) A ban also, deters criminals owning a gun (5 year minimum term for possesion) and amnesties allow handover of illegal guns.... see Home Office figures below.... Our 2003 Gun Amnesty – Get Guns Off the Streets – was a great success. Between 31 March and 30 April 2003, the amnesty encouraged people to hand in illegally held guns and ammunition at local police stations without being charged. We also encouraged people to hand in any other unwanted guns. A total of 43,908 guns and 1,039,358 rounds of ammunition were handed in and are no longer at risk of falling in the hands of criminals. This compares to 22,939 guns and 695,197 rounds of ammunition relinquished during the previous amnesty in June 1996. The items included: 6,529 prohibited firearms (including 5,734 handguns) 10,513 shot guns 13,974 air weapons 9,480 imitations 3,412 assorted rifles and other guns. In addition 7,093 other weapons were also handed in including knives, swords and crossbows. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

Ok, firstly... let me clarify, I am a pretty damn cute 30-something Dude - dont underestimate my begging-appeal But in repsonse... let me just go back through our media reports... and find the last person in the UK that was robbed at gunpoint and killed.... hmmm.... flick.... flick.... hmmm..... I am sure there are lots... just with such an abbundance I dont know which one to pick from. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

sorted lol Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

ok, so if we take sport out of the equation (becuase people could use a club owned gun that is chained to a bench - you get the idea) and what other reason is there to have a gun than to shoot people or threaten to shoot people? You keep spouting on about cars and knives and bats - Get a grip, a rock could be used to kill someone - yes we cant ban them all.... WE CAN AND HAVE BANNED GUNS! And guess what, not too many people are missing them. We single out guns, becuase (barring sport) there is only violent acts they exist for, albeit you may argue defensive. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

I agree that police should be addequately paid. I agree that traffic fines are partly a revenue generation However, I still think these officers need to be disciplined for changing issuance guidlines to suit the desire to get a raise. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

Exactly who is the exremists here? seems to me you just sit on the other side of the fence. He performs an act of treason (in a land of free speech) - you advocate torture and murder figures Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

What would be required for such a licence? Sorry? Dont follow what you mean I was trying to say.. if people want a gun they are not the right people to give them to.. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

If they didnt have secure premises... they shouldnt have a licence... Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

I think that Dunblane and Hungerford highlighted the people who had a gun fascination and a large collection combined with a snapped pshyci are a bad combination! Hence I support licenced clubs but not ownership of guns per-se (ie a only use club issued weapons!) or ... a simple licence test for individuals.... Q. Do you want a gun? A. YES? You cant have one. A. NO? No problem... licence granted Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

Whatever the source (that was one I found with a quick search) The reason I showed it was to highlight that we do have a fairly small number of deaths each year from guns... circa 60s Whatever the reasoning for this, if it aint broke dont fix it! I doubt the figure would get better if anyone over here could buy a gun. Do we have more murders than the US? (ie with a knife or other) I have no stats... I would guess we dont.... I have lived in the US and the UK and wouldnt think that one society was much more violent than the other Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

And as for stats... here is a source http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

Quote Without denying that, the success of American action films abroad suggests that it's not merely us that are fascinated. And 007 is your baby. Quote Yes, and I like to watch Star Trek... it doesnt mean I should be allowed to start building my own rockets. Films, sure ... I like a good action flick.... Do I care if the weapon used was a mark4.5 with a dynoscopic sight and a easy touch recall? (forgive the innacurate gun speil) No.. I like a film that entertains, and dont style my life on John Wayne or 007, and am not even close to being upset I am not allowed to. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

Its very easy to increase a figure from zero... and say that the % rise is huge.. and that yours is going up... and ours is dropping. Fact. more people every day die in america by gun than die every year in the UK. (and yes I know there's more people in the US) Also, I dont see the need for the range of guns - and wouldnt care if I couldnt fire a Gloc or a Beretta exactly how bug a hole do I need to make in a target to enjoy the skill of aiming? The range of guns / callibre's etc is to pander to the fascination your society has with them... and the revenue they generate... We are going round in circles here, so I will leave it at that... Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

The same way that I can rent a gun when I go to paintball.... I dont need to own it. I know that we have enforced this ban probably too stringently in that regard.... I have no objection to a licenced shooting club keeping guns under lock and key - with access to registed members only.... I am against any tom-dick or jeffery walking the streets with one in their pocket, or easily accessable in their car or home. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

'and you still have rampant gun crime' I woulndt call the handfull of cases we have had in Nottingham over the course of one year as 'rampant' when comparing it to the dozens of cases every single day in major US cities. Also, I dont personally need to own a gun to fire one at a club... yes probably gone too far stopping licensed premises from keeping them.... but this thread is Should Britian be armed - NO - and isnt thankfully. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

Ok Jeffrey, a few points... The incident you refer to as closer to home was in fact in my home town. Where, in the last few years I can count on one hand the number of gun deaths... and we are outraged by the high figure! I wonder if you could count how many gun deaths in your city without an abbacus? Also, yes... there are gun incidents all over. But you do have to have metal detectors in your schools. I am pleased your kids can feel so safe. Are baseball bats necessary? no... should I ban them? no... cus lets face it... any blunt object will do... To argue that 'anything can kill' is a stupid way to go.... We clearly cant ban everything, but we can use common sense as to what objects make killing easier. Why do the police carry guns? Because they have to equal the criminals... FYI though, not all police here have guns... they are only brought out when needed. Do I have to equal the criminals? No, I am not paid for law enforcement. Does that mean someone is likely to shoot me? Thankfully not in this country. Yes bad people have guns but I am not likely to meet them.... if I start dealing drugs maybe I deserve to get shot. Am I likely to be robbed at gunpoint? Not really but even if I were.. I give the money and let the police dis-arm them. You think gunsgives you freedom. I think it increases your risks. Americans in general are fascinated by guns / what the do / the power and this is purely down to nurture. You only have to read the 'Sniper Rifle' thread to see the kind of mentality that I am talking about. Wow, whats the best tool to pick off a guy at 1000m? That kind of fascination is quite frankly sick IMO. By the way, I have shot many guns / rifles in the UK and US.... doesnt mean I need one on my belt 24/7 if I wanted to target shoot... they can keep them at the sports facility. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

I cant believe you mean you would rather face someone with a machine gun than a knife?! Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

That will be one of the key cultural differences, yes we do have some gangs in the UK... but nowhere near the level I have seen in the US. Not only are gangs fewer in numbers, but they all dont carry guns and go out looking to kill each other. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

I think that bullet dodging, regardless of the skill needed to hit me, or the chances is something I would not want to try.... Let alone automatics!, dodging one bullet would be scary enough let alone a barrage! Tell all the people that get shot everyday that they should have been better movers Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

This has got to be the most bizarre reasoning I have seen for a while.... Carrying knives around the street is hardly necessary for anyone! what? in case I see a tree I need to carve? or a rope I need to shorten? Be realistic. If someone has an 'offensive' knive under their coat there is only one reason its there. Maybe if we still lived in a jungle, or still had to cut our lunch after freshly trapping it... but to carve my McChicken sandwich?! I dont think so. Seriously Jeffrey, do you feel outraged that youre not allowed to buy C4 at your local home depot? After all, in small amounts this can be a useful tool... and its only the criminals that blow shit up so why should everyone else be restriced? Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

I honestly cant see how there is confusion as to why there is a need to stop the production and public sale of non-necessary and deadly items..... Yes, knives are deadly, Yes people will kill if they want to... but guns are hardly necessary and knives of a utility nature generally are necessary. Why stop there? If we should allow people to own guns why not more? maybe grenades or anti-personnel mines for home garden protection? After all its not the deadly weapons that kill people. All I have to say about a knive is... I have the option to run or more easily defend myself... dodging bullets I'll leave to the hollywood stuntmen. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk

I would go the other way to the poll... and actually toughen the law... Its true, that criminals are more likely to break the law and own a gun, so I would toughen the sentence for possesion. It is true that statistically a 5% rise is not good... but 5% of something small is less than 2% of something huge.... I find it staggering that given the hard facts of number of gunshot incidents in the US would not lead people to think that something is not quite right! and I would hate to see the UK move more in that direction. I live in Nottingham, one of the higher gun crime cities in the UK but even still, the number of shootings / deaths we can count without electronic devices. Presently our laws dont punish people enough for killings IMO but I think a larger deterrent for being caught with a gun would leave only a hardcore group willing to carry. Bodyflight Bedford www.bodyflight.co.uk