notsane

This is a really good question, but one that I'd like to see some working results on before trying to enact some grand rule. Since this is a wingsuit competition, I think we could all agree that the competitors should actually wear a wingsuit. I think a production wingsuit would be a good start, which rules out tracking suits. Maybe we'd want to include a handicap for fallrate as measured by a Neptune, etc ... but my initial thoughts would be to try to keep the rules simple. Thoughts???

One day, Chris, in a hundred years or so, we'll wingsuit together again. I'll bring the oilcan Fosters and the crab rangoon, but you owe me a bag of Scoops! BSBD ZF-1, ZF-2

I'd like to make a "pre"-announcement for the first meet in the Z-Flock Wingsuit Challenge Series. We are targeting holding this competition at Skydive City in scenic Zephyrhills, FL sometime in November 2010. The purpose of this "pre"-announcement is to allow folks the time to get together and practice. We'll be following up with more details later. The meet will be a competition for teams of 5 ... one photographer and 4 competitors. Team members can swap positions as long as the members remain the same. Teams can arrive together or pick-up members at the event. The meet will consist of two events: 1) "Time to Line": Competitors will be judged (from video) on the time from exit to a 4-way docked line held for 3 seconds. Four jumps will be made. Lowest (or bust) score will be dropped. Minimum total time for the remaining three jumps wins. No grips out the door. 2) "Max Points": Competitors will be judged (from video) on the single, maximum point formation that they can build and hold for 3 seconds. Hand grips are 1 point, foot grips are 2 points (for example, a 4-way docked line is 3 points, a 4-way docked diamond is 8 points). Four jumps will be made. Lowest (or bust) score will be dropped. Maximum total points for the remaining three jumps wins. No grips out the door. Allowing a dropped score encourages strategic thinking and competitive risk-taking. There will be a winning team for each event and an overall winning team for the meet. Your thoughts are welcome. Lots more detail to come. Scott

Enough freaking drama. I've avoided this until now, but I have to speak my piece. To anyone that's listening, either you let people tell you what wingsuiting is, or you participate in the discussion of what it really is. You need to choose who you are. Either you jump with your wingsuiting friends, or you show up at an event, don't jump, and run your fat stinking mouth. I've jumped with nearly everyone in this community, and two of the most vocal folks in this discussion showed up, then made the decision not to jump with the wingsuiters of Flock and Dock 6. I think that freaking stinks, and you two know who you are. I've gladly put my old, married, with children ass out front as base hundreds of times for everyone to aim their skills at. Did either of these people offer to fly base, jump with us, or join in the event? FCK NO. So, I have to ask, Who are you to define the rules for me? These are the people that want to dictate to the wingsuiting community what the rules are by going to meetings with USPA, IPC, etc ... Well, I choose not to play by your rules. I respect your charitable goals, but I do not feel that those goals have anything to do with wingsuiting and pressing the envelope of what's possible. I do not think that you represent wingsuiting in way that drives it into the future. I reject your self-determined authority over me or what I do. If and when I have the chance to play in another sandbox than yours, I'll do it. That sandbox is going to be one that we all determine what the rules are, not a few. We all should have a voice in what's right for the future of our discipline, not the few who have the time and money to jet around the world going to meetings with the executives. I'm here to have fun and see where the sport leads us. I'm done. Scott Bland

You can't really go the wrong way with the arm wings ... there's not enough force to induce more twists. If you put out the wrong arm wing, you'll just sit there. I've used this technique a couple of times ... it's very quick.

For those of you who don't already know, we lost another of our wingsuiters from Flock and Dock 6, Keri Lou Kirch. I met Keri and her boyfriend, Kevin in Puerto Rico in February. She was so excited about wingsuiting. Both of them were there at F&D6. Everyone, be careful out there. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3831280;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

So very sorry to hear this. Blue Skies, Kery.

Why do you say that an RSL is a bad idea? To me, the upsides far outweigh the downsides.

Many, many thanks to everyone. To the organizers (Jarno, Sean, Spot ...), the photographers (Spot, Jeff, Stu ...), Kathy and Scotty and everyone who attended ... thanks for your amazing contributions. Everyone was ready and willing to do whatever it took to make this the best event ever. "Learn new stuff" was the theme and boy did we make that happen! Whatever level we were at, everyone was trying something new, and sometimes succeeding!

BSBD Pete. My most heartfelt condolences to his family. The same folks who were on the dive took our heavy hearts and made a memorial dive for Pete on the next jump. It's so sad to lose another brother. Scott

Let's not just talk, let's go try it! All I could think when I watched the video was "who's gonna close that tail slot FIRST!" THEN we'll drink a few beers!

Andrea, The current point system doesn't include backflying. Do ya' think that should be a consideration? What if the dock points are 50% greater for both people backflying? As in: hand dock, both belly ... 1 pt hand dock, both back ... 1.5 pts hand dock, one each ... 1.25 pts foot dock, both belly ... 2 pts foot dock, both back ... 3 pts foot dock, one each ... 2.5 pts That would make Mike's pic 5 pts. I'm not sure that's fair if you consider that's equivalent (point-wise) to a 6 person docked line, but it would take into account the greater difficulty. Just thinking, here ... I'm happy to see this "impossible wingsuit docking" becoming more and more routine.

TK told me yesterday that the SkyVan is no longer available, but we will have one or two (as needed) Otters along with a Caravan. In weather news, it is freaking gorgeous down here now. Perfect skies and 70 degrees!

My rule is that ex's don't get much of a say who I hold hands with ...

Great pics, Matt! Let's not forget the consistent 4-way lines Paul Cain/Elana Cain/Spike/Jackie (aka "The Brits") were putting up. They were holding those for 60 seconds or more. I'll post a still when I get back home.

Oh man do I need this ... See you all there!

An 8way docked diamond as the minimum? It would sure be interesting for the tail guy, especially if we've all got the gas on. Jarno implies that his suits allow his arms to be level with his shoulders (when standing). I'd like to see a pic of that.

I think you guys are missing the point. With everyone's arms swept back, it's not possible for the tail person in a docked diamond to get grips without having his face on the lead guys ass. Lines and stairsteps aren't the path to large docked formations.

I honestly don't see how more experience is going to make it possible to get the grips needed to make a docked diamond in a typical wingsuit. A small wingsuit is still a wingsuit.

WooHoo! One more week until I can get away from this awful Florida weather ... Warm and fun in the PR sun! Screw the El Nino winter pattern!!

The S-Fly Access! That's the one! Imagine a docked diamond in those. I was thinking about how freefall suits changed during the '80's. Most people here are too young to remember the wing-wars that culminated in something called balloon suits. Folks finally realized that, while the suits did what they were meant to do, fall slowly, they were terrible for doing freefall formations. Small suits and weight belts were unheard of back then. I'm not saying that we should ditch the big wing suits ... they're too much fun to fly around clouds. But maybe we should also look at suits that allow us to build docked formations.

I've been thinking more about docked formations. Unless we want to be locked into lines and stairsteps, the minimum docked formation should be a diamond. But, as Matt Hoover has shown (with an overhead pic of me in a Raptor), that can't be done ... (the following is mine) .. "with existing wingsuits". A wingsuit can take many forms, and the swept-back arm wing we have now offers more performance while it restricts arm movement. A flocking, docking wingsuit design might offer lower performance while it has less arm and leg restriction. A smaller leg wing might keep it from getting bumped around too. A suit like the Tony Suit "Intro" would offer less restriction. There was a suit a few years back that had arm wings that ended at the elbows (I can't remember the name). These suits might allow more flexibility for docked wingsuit flight ... like enabling a wingsuit diamond. I'm sayin' that our twitchy, high performance suits with arm grippers taking up our hands might not be the best solution if we actually want to build docked formations.

Just some random thoughts ... I wonder whether it's even possible to judge a 3D no-contact formation. To start with, you have to set the minimum requirements for judging ... something like "all participants must be in their assigned 3D locations for 5 seconds" Obviously the grid system doesn't impose either the 3rd dimension or the time requirements. That makes the current grid judging requirement to be "all participants must be in their assigned 2D locations for 1/125th second". For the 2D grid to work (overlaying a perfect grid on top of a photo), it's implied that you can eliminate the spherical aberration of the lens, offset of the cameraman from formation center and skew from vertical. I'm not sure even this is possible. Extending to the 3rd dimension and a time requirement would make things even tougher. Docked formations only require verification of the grips via video for 5 seconds (although I question whether video resolution is really able to see all those grips in a huge formation). That obviates the 3D requirement and make the judging pretty straightforward. Just thinking ...

NEWSFLASH! There's been a shake-up in terms of aircraft providers at Skydive City, and we will now have a SKYVAN at the event! So, all you folks with a tailgate fetish... you can get your fix here!

Directions are on the Xtreme divers website... www.xtremedivers.com/vegabaja.shtml