New Stealth and Phantom versions?

[tr027 0]

Anybody have pictures or narrative of the new PF suits shown at FnD??

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[Deniq 0]

Jarno jump now Stealth-2. See his fotos and videos

[LloydDobbler 2]

Quote

Anybody have pictures or narrative of the new PF suits shown at FnD??

There isn't a *new* Phantom, per se - but Scott Bland has a suit they're affectionally calling the 'Phantom 2.5', which features a few upgrades.

IIRC, it features a zip-in system similar to the Stealth (with cutaway cables running along the arms), as well as a modified, lengthened legwing (which adds quite a bit of forward speed - Scott was hauling ass on breakoff).

From what I hear, it also features a modified inlet system (but I didn't take a close enough look to see the differences).

Scott may or may not chime in with details I may have missed, and a firsthand review of performance (since he's the one who's been flying it). It was a nice-looking suit, that's for certain.

Signatures are the new black.

[notsane 0]

I've got about 70 jumps on the updated Phantom (the 2.5).

This is one awesome suit and will basically do anything you want it to do. The suit has the over the arm zippers and internal cutaway system like the Stealth, but also has several additional modifications.

There are no inlets on the front of the arm, which is now smooth and low drag with an internal foam stiffening material built into it. Front flying inlets are at chest level on the wings and near the crotch on the tail wing. Back flying inlets are similarly located. All inlets are air locked. The leg wing is slightly extended and the butt-deflector has been integrated into it, forming a very smooth surface (see Matt's photo http://www.matthoover.com/gallery/skydiving-photos/2009-02/2009-02_p07.html#navbar ) Inflation is quick and solid in any orientation.

The flight characteristics are amazing, especially for such a small amount of overall wing. I weigh 180 pounds butt-naked and I've been able to hold freefall speeds in the low 40mph range with minimums in the mid 30's. Forward speeds are up there with the best, as anyone who was near me on the Flock and Dock breakoffs can tell you.

Backflying is a breeze and the arm/legwing ratio is such that you can easily max the suit out. You can stretch the legwing to its limit without going head-down. Transitions are similarly easy because of the small legwing.

If there's any downside to the new design, it's that the suit doesn't slow down without active input. When I fly base, I generally just relax my legs to slow the forward speed and present a reachable target for the last person out the door. That doesn't work for this suit ... even with my knees slightly bent, the legwing remains in its full flight position. So slowing down requires you to actively "ask" for it ... which is not necessarily a bad thing.

So, to summarize, this revision of the Phantom can be your go-to suit for most anything you want to do. Unless you're a real heavy-weight, you'll save the large wing suit for those days when lloonngg flights around the puffy clouds are calling your name. But if you're looking for a great performing, all-around flocking suit, you can't go wrong with this one.

Scott

[mnskydiver688 0]

I think that was a trick by Robi. A suit which you have to actively try to slow down for flocking. "Ha take that flockers!" Thanks Robi, now you have made it even harder to decide between a Ghost 2 and a new Phantom.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[Butters 0]

Quote

I think that was a trick by Robi. A suit which you have to actively try to slow down for flocking. "Ha take that flockers!" Thanks Robi, now you have made it even harder to decide between a Ghost 2 and a new Phantom.

You already know I love my Phantom 2 (and will be jealous of you if you get a Phantom 2.5). I've found the trick to slowing it down is using your arm wings to catch air instead of deflecting it (I hope that makes sense) ...

PS: Scott, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I enjoyed the speed of this flock in Puerto Rico.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[notsane 0]

As I remember, that was a 128 second flock. But, even though it looks like it in the photos, I'm not pushing the suit at all. In fact, I'm in a very relaxed position and letting the suit do the work for me. Apparently, the leg wing inflation pushes your knees into a straighter position ... I'm not exerting any downward muscle force with the lower part of my legs.

On a later dive I tried to slow up more aggressively (photo here). Even here with my knees bent almost 45 degrees, you can see that the leg wing is still in it's full flight position. My legs alone are affecting the forward speed.

Scott

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

The main difference in the Phantom line is in convenience or rigging. It now has the over-the-shoulder zipper rigging which makes it possible to "sew up" on a ten minute call or less. As far as performance goes, at least in the Phantom series, I cannot tell a difference between my very-nearly-new P2 and Scott Bland's "newest" suit. As to the Stealth2, it is a quite-different suit than it's predecessor, which already has the over-the-shoulder zips. The inlets on the new suit are totally different.

Frankly, I think the Stealth series is MUCH too large and flappy for everyday flocking, as is the Tony XS. The people who routinely jump and promote the largest suits will likely argue, but none of them in their right mind will say that I am lacking on those dives when I jump the much, much smaller Phantom2. It's simply more manageable in every way. FWIW, my weapon of choice in the Tony line is the Raptor.

[mccordia 73]

Quote

The main difference in the Phantom line is in convenience or rigging.

Performance wise there are some small changes in terms of the wing shape/size, and (most noticably) the inlets.
With the airintake now being located as ram-air inlets underneath the wing (also allowing full presurisation at steeper flight angles, past normal flight) The suit thus having a completely smooth leading edge, decreases drag by a large margin and increases performance as well.

In general its all small details that have been changed and updated, but it makes for an even more complete package, which is more than enough for 99% of all flights/flocks done from airplanes.

Quote

The people who routinely jump and promote the largest suits will likely argue,

Nobody arguing here.
I fully agree these big suits are overkill, especially flockingwise.
Though the flappy aspect you mention isnt really the case with inflation on most of the newer big models.

The only reason I like the suit is the extreme slowfall capability at breakoff.
Having played a bit with my GPS, yesterday I did 2 canopy flybys with 12 mph fallrates, and 5.4 glide ratio on the second one (only for +-30 seconds, flare after a dive! not sustainable! do note the difference!).

The feeling of just hovering there, and having eyecontact with someone under canopy, while almost hanging still relative to them, its fun...
And the same goes for doing time-related jumps.

From Stealth1 to Stealth2 the biggest update is forward speed.
With the suit now having an increased angle of attack due to the bigger legwing, and also smooth leading edge (also the new bottom/top ram-air inlets) it flies a lot faster/better than its baby brother.

In general, suits designed for speed such as the V3 do much, much better distance wise than the big tarps. But the hangtime is fun, and some heavy people do know how the milk the suits for distance. But its not the design intent. Look at marl, where a 'tiny' Phantom2 flown by Denis was outscoring several of the aforementioned XS flyers.

But in flocks. Its useless/insane to fly these big suits, and it develops lazy flyers who have the suit do most of the 'flying' (collapsed falling) for them. Especially people not in the heavy to overweight section, diving and flying with en enough forward speed (relative to others) is a huge problem, as you just lack the wingload to properly fly these monstersuits at the same speed.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[notsane 0]

I watched Paul Cain jumping a Stealth after breakoff at FnD5. Like you mentioned, Jarno, he was just hanging there, descending at about the same rate as my open canopy. The only time I've seen someone best that was the time I watched Jeff Nebelkopf go from below the horizon to above the horizon. I was under canopy and he was in an XS.

I have to agree with your comment about large suits and flocking. People should choose a suit that can actually be flown, rather than flapped, while they're flocking. Maybe this means they need two or three suits, but so be it. If the heavy-weights wearing large suits can't stay with everyone, then why are we calling it flocking?

Scott

[pierre3636 0]

nah i jump a stealth and i also did in the 71 way flock and its fine - your quite a light guy so smaller makes sense - i like the range of the stealth - esp when you have an OOPS moment and you are low or have pushin and shovin exit and need some range - but to each his own, there is no one suit that works for everyone - i think after watching the deliberations on these threads for the best part of 2 years its safe to say we can alll agree that we dont agree!

i do also have about a 100 jumps on a XS and i will DEF not waste my time trying to flock that ...
stealth and sm2 i see as the standard size suit for any competent ws pilot with experience (yes that is vague i know).

every persons experience will be different so ill share mine - i fly my stealth alot and mostly at the same dz with my neptune on my hand - far from a perfect science to measure but thats what ive got, i can get to 40mph for ave fairly easily (ive done more than 1k ws jumps so i know my body by now) and with good breathing and relaxing i can hit the 36/38 range - that is my absolute best - ive never had a fluke 32 or something like that - when im flying on that fine a performance line every little thing makes a difference - small swings in balance, the micro timing of the ossilation of forward drive and then lift - every single thing makes a difference. I must be honest I am not convinced that these minor differences in design is going to change the performance sygnificantly (i think working a specific group of muscles in your body will give you better performance personally) and thus its not really justified to buy a new suit. I might be wrong and if I am i will happily demo the new suit to find out. If you are buying a new suit for the first time then its a different story. my 2c.

airlocked suits dont flap.

~ time is ~ time was ~ times past ~