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pete683

WS with leg pouch, shrivel flap

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any advice on skydiving using the base pocket on ther wingsuit with the shrivle flap installed. i have been using a birdman pilot chute and bridle with the base pocket on an s3 wingsuit. the shrivel flap is attached to the bridle 22 " from the pin. i am getting a short hesitation when i throw the pilot chute. i am skydiving this set-up to practice for ws/base.
do i need a larger pilot chute? any advice will be very helpful!

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i am getting a short hesitation when i throw the pilot chute. i am skydiving this set-up to practice for ws/base.
do i need a larger pilot chute? any advice will be very helpful!


I used a 32" (F111?)kill-line PC with short bridle for 70 flights. No hesitations at all.
I use Cazer 24" ZP kill-line PC from my other gear. I got no hesitation.
I have a 26" Birdman kill-line PC with long bridle on my WS gear, its perfect.

I had one single jump with a 27" Javelin kill-line PC from subterminal, I got lots of hesitation and got it replaced right away.

I'd check the length of the kill-line if its from Spectra, it could shrink and/or try another PC.

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Never used a leg pouch for S3 in either skydiving of base jumping situations and it was fine. With recent events, just make just youre rigging that shrivel flap correctly. If the bridle is extra long, it could just be the hesitation of pilot chute inflation after bridle extension, or your pitch is piss poor. Make sure youre getting that pilot chute out there hard, even with the leg pouch.

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I wouldn't use the leg pouch on a skydive. I have seen someone get a preme and get ripped right by me on exiting because there pc came out of the leg pouch. Like really close. All i could see was a flash of canopy. Its called a BASE pouch not a extra skydiving pouch. You might be fine on a solo, but i would still recommend not doing it.

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If the BASE pouch was unreliable it wouldn't be useful in the BASE environment either. An accidental deployment while flying close to terrain could be fatal. I use the BASE pouch on my V-2 exclusively while skydiving. It's an easier reach than the BOC and provides muscle memory for W/S BASE. Using the leg pouch does require extra attention to keep the PC from getting loose in the aircraft or at exit. I wouldn't use the leg pouch for most aerobatics because of bridle exposure. I haven't been asked not to use it when flocking, if someone had a problem I'd switch to BOC.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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On a basejump you are not crawling around on an airplane floor with other people brushing past your pilotchute.
There is no tailwing that can break off or other jumper directly on top or behind you on a group exit where someone bumps/slides past you and slides the pilot from the base-pouch.
BASE exits on 2 ways and up tend to be more spread/organised than group exits on a skydiving from a plane into a high relative wind.

Look up the amount of premature deployments in (regardles of planning) flocks, exits and aerobatic jumps, and PLEASE try to understand a BASE pouch should only be used for solo practice on preperation jumps for exactly that.

Anything else is a risk to the people around you. Regardless if someone realises it and asks you to please not use it, be the sensible one and dont expose anyone else to the useless risk of using the base-pouch outside of its designed intent.
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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Look up the amount of premature deployments in (regardles of planning) flocks, exits and aerobatic jumps, and PLEASE try to understand a BASE pouch should only be used for solo practice on preperation jumps for exactly that.




And what is that amount (premature deployments) per number of jumps with the pouch? What is the number of premature deployments from the BOC?

Do you have this solid info, or statistics?

_justin

I tend to use my base pouch on solos, or long flights depending on airplane and other factors. I don't do aerobatics with it. I don't use it if the flock gets above 3 (which is pretty much as high is it can get at my DZ) It can be used intelligently.

Have you ever used it skydiving?

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The direction at which the legpouch is angled is what makes it more sensetive to premature deloyments. Just do a simple search for compareable threads on this subject, and explain me the reason why you'd even want to risk someone else eating your canopy? Even on a 2 way. Its not just your own health you are decidng on. .regardless if someone else knows or asks.

There are way to many examples, even mentioned here in this thread.
Skydivingmovies has some nice examples (one high speed exit/tumble comes to mind) and thats the stuff people showed/talked about.

There is no difference in deployment/pull from te point where your pilotchute is at arms-stretch and about to be released into the wind. Even the users comment on the additional care needed when usuing it. Why even use it at all on anything besides a BASE oriented solo practice jump?

Even if the risk is minimal..as long as its an added risk, and one you can easily avoid..Be safe..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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thanks for the info guys. the pilot chute i use is 28" ZP. it is a birdman pilot chute and bridle. the canopy is a saber 1 120. i did not get the pilot chute hesitation until i started using the base pocket and shrivel flap. i believe the shrivel flap velcro is what is causing the hesitation. do i need a bigger pilot chute? please note that the canopy opens plenty hard enough already and i dont want to do anything to make it worse. i always jump solo. the only reason i am skydiving using the base pocket is to prepare for ws/base. i always deploy in full flight. thanks again to everyone for the info:)

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Another thing to check on the gear side would be your bridle near the pin, if you don't have enough slack on the canopy side near the pin that will cause hesitations. Skymonkey1/Chuck Blue wrote a good thread about this, good reading if you're not yet familiar with that condition.
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

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Try not fully mating the velcro on the shrivel flap, particularly if it's new. BTW - 28" is quite small for a wingsuit. As Yuri_base has demonstrated theoretically, you would need to upsize by 1 size in a BASE environment for a wingsuit. Incidentally, all my wingsuit BASE experience has been with a 36", taking c. 40s delays (so I am terminal) in a V-1.

Also, check so see that you've sewn the shrivel flap to the bridle at the end closest to the pins. ;)

As for skydiving with the BASE pouch, you can secure the PC more than adequately - you just have to be careful, and also check it right before exit.
--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

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Presumably you have the shrivel flap attached correctly, if sewn on backwards it could cause real problems. Even though your hesitation seems to have started after going to the BASE pouch you should take a look at your kill line to make sure it hasn't shrunk enough to cause problems, I've even seen a too-short kill line on a new PC. I personally wouldn't use a larger PC on a canopy that small.

Incidentally the Sabre openings can be made far more comfortable by using a larger slider. I also jump a Sabre 1 120, The slider I use is from a Xaos 21 98. It's identical spanwise but about 2" larger chordwise than the Sabre slider if I recall correctly. It still opens fast but not hard. My openings are just right with the occasional short snivel, never a slammer.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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i really do not understand this discussion about the leg pouch.
if it is correctly assembled and checked before exit it will work. it always worked for me. i have only a little whiffle ball sticking out in skydiving, never a problem belly to earth and occasionally barrel rolls.
in base i have a huge chunk of that 38" zp pc sticking out, also never a problem. and i fly steep and fast with carves.
also most people in base have the pcs sticking out pretty wide. has anyone ever heard of a premature deployment?
not me. probably because you take extra care of your setup.
if you do it like this in skydiving it will also work.

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