wingsuits types

[Hockie 0]

I am about to buy a wingsuit, and im very keen to get the phoenix-fly vampire 2, but have not had the chance to fly one, i have flowen quite a few bird-man suits and they are great but i believe the vampire could be better, does any one out there fly a vampire, my choices of wingsuits would be the S3S by birdman or the vampire by phoenix-fly, opinions much appreciated Cheers

[Professor 0]

Look around on this forum some, the various suit's merits have been discussed quite a bit. What are you trying to do, and what do you want out of your suit?

I've got a V2, had a V1, and have flown most of the other stuff out there. The V2 is bad ass, and the best gliding suit I've ever flown.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[Zeemax 0]

Definately check out an S6 if you can. I love mine

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[mccordia 73]

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Definately check out an S6 if you can. I love mine

Too bad you fly it like sh*t...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[normiss 622]

Apparently the S6 is more impervious to barb-wire unlike the other suits on the market.

[VectorBoy 0]

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Definately check out an S6 if you can. I love mine

Whats the big difference between the S-6 and the S-3? Up front I notice its got an extra cell in the leg wing portion anything else besides the mylar inserts?

[mccordia 73]

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Whats the big difference between the S-6 and the S-3? Up front I notice its got an extra cell in the leg wing portion anything else besides the mylar inserts?

There's a lot of changes. Some minor, some big. But all improving the suit a lot in how it flies, as well as how it looks. Just try one if you get the chance. You wont be disappointed.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[VectorBoy 0]

So what are these differences? I'm curious.

[voodew1 0]

The best thing you can do is find a V1 or V2 and an S3S/S6 and lay them next to each other -- look at the quality of workmanship -- that should help you make up your mind.

Know that all suits (high end suits) fly close to the same

I personally fly a Vampire V2 (and fly it much better than Professor) and have been able to leave a few very experienced wingsuit pilots (the kind that teach others to teach) in my dust.
But in the end purchase what you feel is the better quality suit as the pilot makes the performance for the most part

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[Zeemax 0]

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Apparently the S6 is more impervious to barb-wire unlike the other suits on the market.

Actually thats the S3s....

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[mccordia 73]

The comment 'I've left XXX jumper in XXX suit in the dust is such a useless point to make' when it comes to suits. Yet people make it OVER AND OVER again....

The several weeks Ive spent at different dropzones in EU the past year (mostly Empuria) I was also outflying people in V1s (flying an S3S) Getting A LOT of extra distance and time after breakoff compared to the rest.

Does that mean the suit is better? Or does it make me a better flyer?
Did those people have a bad day?

The point is..outflying someone doesnt prove anything....as people wil ALWAYS explain it different.

You're outflying everyone in your suit...so your suit is the best?
Loic is outflying everyone in his suit...so loic is a better pilot?

But here's my 5ct...(with the same brand-monkey label attached to me as the one you have ofcource)

I like flying on my back, flipping over and flying without flapping material when not holding grippers (both on belly and back)
It might just be my personal experience, but the S6 feels like a much more balanced suit, when it comes to legwing/armwing size.

For flocking people seem to be fighting it a bit more in a V1/V2.
Which seems more geared towards max flight/base then flocking/dynamic flying.

Most V1s Ive seen in flocking are either low, or in front of the formation. It definatly takes more skill to fly it in a flock.

Next to that...in terms of arm-pressure...when you compare the 2 suits..the difference is huge...

I have yet to meet the person that can fly a V1/2 to the max (outside the 1 minut-ish base enviroment) for a full skydive.
Getting the same (or few % more or less) performance out of a suit, at half the strength, and being able to keep that up for a full jump is also something to take into account. And also partly the reason you see people switch to a Phantom instead of a V1/2 for contest like Marl/Stupino..

Im not a basejumper...but an eternal groupy of people like james and robert...and greatly admire PF for the quality of their suits.
But when it comes to flocking and alround (non-base) skydiving, I think a lot of people are getting a suit thats more then they can handle, for the wrong reasons...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[OmarPR 0]

I'm sorry Jason. You are my Texas homeboy but I have to agree with Jarno on this one (although I also do agree with what you said about "the pilot makes the performance for the most part"). I have said the same things over and over again. That is why I fly an Acro (and I am also considering weights for the rare and occasional flock). It is funny how in all other disciplines (especially RW, FF and CReW), skydivers wear different size suits and weights to compensate for each other's fall rate, yet most wingsuit pilots want to fly the biggest, floatiest fastest suits in big flocks just to suffer by flying dirty "like crap" to stay down, and then finally enjoy just a few seconds of high performance flying at breakoff. I am 5'8" - 145 pounds. Even when I used to fly a GTI, I had to fly like shit to stay down with the bigger HP suits. Anyone that has flown with me will agree (got lots of video too). My 2 cents.

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[normiss 622]

you buncha picky fuckers...I hear some people can fly garbage bags around the rest of us...

I'll stick with my Acro...like Omar, I think it a good all around suit...and my hands are free to dock with.

Floating and flying I see as two totally different aspects of wingsuit flying and one does not necessarily make it superior to the other...

fly, flock, acrobatics, base, whatever...HAVE FUN!

[voodew1 0]

Alright -- trash me on the performance part, I was trying to pick a fight like I normally do and you bastards don't really fall for my shit anymore

But I never heard your comment on the quality??

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[OmarPR 0]

Quality?

Some are hefty,hefty,hefty
Some are wimpy,wimpy,wimpy

WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds

[normiss 622]

STOP!

my sides hurt now...

well whoopadeedoo!!

[Professor 0]

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For flocking people seem to be fighting it a bit more in a V1/V2.
Which seems more geared towards max flight/base then flocking/dynamic flying.

What ever happened to wanting to fly? You don't like the Vampires, basically, because they fly too well. They don't like to slow down and fly with all the other suits. But isn't that the point? Flying? Not just going 50 mph straight down with our feet on our asses? That's what annoys me about the entire BM product line. The loss of focus on glide performance. If we stop focusing on glide and flight, then all we are is a bunch of retards in expensive jumpsuits doing shitty RW.

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Next to that...in terms of arm-pressure...when you compare the 2 suits..the difference is huge...

I didn't notice the S3s to be any lower arm pressure than my V1. It may just be a case of which suit you're accustomed too.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[mccordia 73]

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What ever happened to wanting to fly? You don't like the Vampires, basically, because they fly too well.

Thats about 180 degrees opposite of what I ment....
I sayd I can do the EXCACT same (or better), in terms of glide/performance as most people I fly with in Vampires...but think the current S6 its just a tad more suited for dynamic flying...(on your back etc) and for people that insist on getting a big suit, for doing both long/far solo's and cool flocks/dynamic flight...it might be a better choice..

A lot of people are looking at different suits with the idea they are flying 2 km extra, while the difference between the top of the line suits is nothing more but a few % in performance...

No clue where you ever got the idea I dont like flying..but if your views on wingsuits are REALLY that narrowminded, and you honestly think anything but max solo flight is 'having your feet on your asses and freefalling' then you're CLEARLY jumping with the wrong people and definately only experiencing a tiny, tiny bit of what wingsuiting as a dicipline has to offer...

But I guess you're the kind of guy that leaves a cool group jump halfway through when its not going below 40 mph with at least 2.3 glide..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Professor 0]

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I sayd I can do the EXCACT same (or better), in terms of glide/performance as most people I fly with in Vampires

Do you realize you just used the exact same argument you dogged Voodew out for using earlier? And anyway, you can do the exact same as most people in V1's, or all people in V1's?

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...but think the current S6 its just a tad more suited for dynamic flying...(on your back etc) and for people that insist on getting a big suit, for doing both long/far solo's and cool flocks/dynamic flight...it might be a better choice..

Better because it can slow down and hang back with older, steeper suits easier? I understand your point, it is nice to be able to throw together a mixed flock and not have anybody really fighting to stay up/down/back with it, but designing suits with that specifically in mind is stalling the progress of wingsuit design in general.

But I will give you that an S3s/S6 is easier to back fly than a Vampire. If you can backfly a Vampire, you can backfly pretty much anything.

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A lot of people are looking at different suits with the idea they are flying 2 km extra, while the difference between the top of the line suits is nothing more but a few % in performance...

I'd say closer to 25%, but let's be real, neither of use can prove any hard numbers for this.

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No clue where you ever got the idea I dont like flying..but if your views on wingsuits are REALLY that narrowminded, and you honestly think anything but max solo flight is 'having your feet on your asses and freefalling' then you're CLEARLY jumping with the wrong people and definately only experiencing a tiny, tiny bit of what wingsuiting as a dicipline has to offer...

It's not about always being maxed out. It's about the average performance of wingsuits as a whole. I've started noticing a trend toward suits which are inherently slower, and thereby easier to flock. This is exactly opposite of the direction I'd like to see wingsuiting as a disipline go. I want to see continued improvement in flight efficiency and glide, across all levels of suits.

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But I guess you're the kind of guy that leaves a cool group jump halfway through when its not going below 40 mph with at least 2.3 glide..

If you'd ever met me, you'd know my fat ass isn't going 40 mph in any direction.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[mccordia 73]

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anyway, you can do the exact same as most people in V1's, or all people in V1's?

Haha..I wish...There's plenty of people on this planet that could fly circles around me, spit on my head, give me the finger, sing an annoying song during all that, and still have me strugling to stay up with them...

You can probably put about 90% of the people on dz.com on that list...(either out-flying or outwriting me)

My point was...if the choo-choo train you're trying to make out of an S3S/S(ticker)6, is able to fly with, and even outfly some people in '25% better suits', with ME flying the 'sucky' 75% suit...then all those people are either flying their suits pretty shoddy...or those claimed 25% might actualy be closer to 2,5%.........I guess nobody knows ey...?

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[voodew1 0]

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If you'd ever met me, you'd know my fat ass isn't going 40 mph in any direction.

I will step in and say he is correct -- he is a fat fuck and he can't go 40 mph for more than a few seconds at a time. I know this because when we are done flocking with the slower suits and we punch out I watch his fat ass disappear beneath me.

But one thing that does stand out is that his fat ass can really transform that weight into forward speed as his fat ass is most definetly faster than my floaty ass.

Ass its a good thing

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[Professor 0]

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There's plenty of people on this planet that could fly circles around me.
You can probably put about 90% of the people on dz.com on that list...

Haha... ... Methinks the lady doth protest too much...
You're a good pilot, and you know it, or you wouldn't be posting flight manuals on your website.

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then all those people are either flying their suits pretty shoddy...

That's entirely possible. As much as I like to talk about suit design, in the end the pilot is the determining factor.

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or those claimed 25% might actualy be closer to 2,5%.........I guess nobody knows ey...?

I'm sure plenty of people know. They just have better things to do than fight with us. Speaking of things no one seems to know, what are the actual differences between the S3s and the S6? (I'm not trying to be a dick here, I really do want to know, and really can't find any info on it.) Also, who's on this new "Birdman Factory Team"?

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[VectorBoy 0]

We had three or four V-1s at the Lodi boogie. The ones that were in the base didn't have to fly their V-1s @ 50% With their legs on their ass to stay in the flock. They played nice with the classics and GTIs. Most of them exibited control equal to anyone else. In fact we'll say as well as their SKILLS ( not their suit) would allow.

This is the wingsuit forum not the RDUB forum. YOU will not be allowed to blame crappy personal flying on the wrong suit, the wrong weight belt or wrong full face helmet. And you better smile on the jump!!!!!

The assumption that having a V-1/ or 2 is too much for formation, or flocking or everyday regular flying or is a vanity/ ego purchase and that they can't be flown on the back side as well as any other NON backvented suit is just ignorant. Or the last line of denial. Get over it.

S-3 state of the art? Sure back in 2004, good suit I got two of em. I see that they haven't advanced the design much since then despite the hoopylaa. I leave that at that.

The argument that the vampires are not the right tool for the everyday job is just bullshit. I've personally seen it excell on the job, in just everyday regular flying.

"Is there such a thing as too much range"? < Chris Rock voice off>

Here is a poll for you poll lovers: How long before Scott C and monkeyone get Vampires? I'm serious.

[Buried 0]

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Whats the big difference between the S-6 and the S-3? Up front I notice its got an extra cell in the leg wing portion anything else besides the mylar inserts?

There's a lot of changes. Some minor, some big. But all improving the suit a lot in how it flies, as well as how it looks. Just try one if you get the chance. You wont be disappointed.

vectorboy -

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So what are these differences? I'm curious.

i missed this too. i'm curious too. BM didn't really do a good job at advertising the differences in the mths that it has been out.. everyone i've asked doesn't really know either, or is mostly BS.

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[Professor 0]

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vectorboy -

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So what are these differences? I'm curious.

Between the S3 and the S3s, there's a number of differences. Bigger leg wing, which seems to make the suit feel more stable, bigger arm wing, bigger drag inducers (err... Front Air Deflectors ), and velcoless cutaway handles (which I really disliked). As for actual in flight performance differences, I don't have enough experience with either suit to say.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.