SCARYPERRY 0 #1 June 28, 2005 Due to politics and gereral way that this forum has gotten,I have been berated for last time by pm's,Anyone wanting to converse from now on,will have to contact me another way as I am leaving dz.com forums till some of you can grow up.....long flights and safe landings Perry For public record...I am in NO WAY ass.with Bman international nor will I ever be in future..sorry for those left behind,but when the skygod falls,mabe some will learn the truthOnly he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #2 June 28, 2005 man... relax, it will be ok... take a deep breath and count to 10. remember words are differnt here, they lack human emotion...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #3 June 29, 2005 Less politics at flybirdman.com! See you there :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #4 June 29, 2005 Do posts vanish unexplicably on flybirdman.com like they do on here too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #5 June 29, 2005 Maybe this is for another thread, but why do you think there is such... animosity between some wingsuit pilots? Is it loyalty to their suit manufacturer? Why has DZ.com been dragged into this? Any ideas? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #6 June 29, 2005 QuoteLess politics at flybirdman.com! Less Action too. "The new Phi will be out this summer!" Posted by Kevin on Friday March 26, 2004 tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #7 June 29, 2005 Who fixed my typo? Whoooo this is x-files scarry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #8 June 29, 2005 QuoteMaybe this is for another thread, but why do you think there is such... animosity between some wingsuit pilots? QuoteI don't know in all cases. I believe its mostly handled in PMs. In my personal case I haven't got much PM feedback of who ALL I'm pissing off and why, just the stuff thats out there in the open. But I will stand my ground when some people say I do things I don't do. I don't agree with everybody's opinions and make no excuses for it. And if someone challenges my opinion I don't take that as animosity just a difference of opinion........ not everyone is like this and some people take things very personal. QuoteIs it loyalty to their suit manufacturer? I have multiple suits and no loyalty to one manufacturer. Some people claim there is bias towards some posters by some moderators/ instructors/ manufacturer representatives. I know they don't like their ideas challenged yet have no problem challenging or flaming others opinions. QuoteWhy has DZ.com been dragged into this? Because, like you said its the most active forum for this stuff. Sometimes action brings friction. Quote Any ideas? t Quote Plenty Ideas, none I can share for fear of being flamed...... Just kidding. My Idea is it just doesn't matter. Some people want to focus on their special corner of the spot light and some just want to learn and fly. You can do a whole lot of learning and flyingwithout the friction. This is just my opinion and you all may commence flaming when your ready. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #9 June 29, 2005 I'm not flaming.I respect everyone's opinion in this forum. I think I've been more careful here because this is my most precious form of flight and I feel some form of kinship with others who feel the same. I know I fall clearly in the "I like to fly FAST" camp. To me, going slow or for time is like opening high and hanging on the brakes. I don't mind if others think thats cool though. Even in a slow suit - I like to try and make it go FAST! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #10 June 29, 2005 I don't think the manufacturers have anything to do with the gripes ( I don't know every gripe and could be wrong). We can't blame one suit maker over another, they have nothing to do with it. Suits are lifeless objects without the pilots, who have, Its Egos..... Have you ever heard that skydivers are the greatest people if you can get past their egos? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kevin922 0 #11 June 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteLess politics at flybirdman.com! Less Action too. "The new Phi will be out this summer!" Posted by Kevin on Friday March 26, 2004 t Uh, are you talking about the news? I think you're seeing some type of cached entry.. we have news all the way up to 06/22/05. Let me know.. Try hitting "shift-reload" Kevin :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites whatever 0 #12 June 29, 2005 Quote I know I fall clearly in the "I like to fly FAST" camp. To me, going slow or for time is like opening high and hanging on the brakes. I don't mind if others think thats cool though. Even in a slow suit - I like to try and make it go FAST! t I know what you're saying, t , and when I started wingsuiting I was all obsessed with longest delays possible too. Flocking with some faster wingsuit flyers soon cured me of that !! Now I don't fly for slowest vertical possible or fastest forward, I try to fly what feels like the most efficient way. I cover more ground than I used to compared to when going for distance, yet my descent rate is slower than when I concentrated purely on that.... Maybe the tracking race I took part in on Saturday helped, as this past Sunday I did two solos in the morning, tried to follow the Otter for as long as possible and just haul ass after that - see the attached pic for the Pro-Track graph on the 2nd one. My 2 Pro-Tracks both show the same spikes and numbers, as they are both in my helmet being audibles primarily and dataloggers secondarily. My Suunto X6 is my primary datalogger, as it does not time out at 119 sec, like the Pro-Tracks and it's not fooled like a Pro-Track when you get above the plane on exit. It showed: 13858 ft at exit, 10417 ft at 60 sec, 6857 ft at 120 sec, 3310 ft at 180 sec 2520 ft at 188 sec - which is the point where my canopy opening started slowing me down 2395 ft at 192 sec - which is the point where my canopy is fully flying that jump was such a trip! I hop out of the Otter, facing forward, keep collapsed just long enough for the horizontal stab to enter my peripheral vision, then I pop and inflate and get on with chasing the plane until it's too far away, at which point I start flying my pattern, flat turns only, really subtle weight shifts with the hips to turn, at 60 sec my pre-wingsuit-skydiver-mindset-mental-dytter kicks in and a quick alti check puts the feeling that I should pull soon to rest. It's also pretty trippy to see 10 500 ft on your alti at that point! So I reset the mental dytter and get on with trying to max out my S3, I try to feel and control the tension in every point I can in the wings, by rolling my shoulders, pushing my elbows forward, pushing down and pulling out on the grippers, pushing out with my knees, pushing out and down with my feet, rolling my ankles outward, pointing my toes, keeping the right amount of arch/flatness/de-arch and keeping my head down and still. It's such a weird feeling, when I get it right I can try to angle down as hard as I can, yet my trajectory won't get any steeper, my forward speed just picks up and I feel the resistance of the airstream keeping my descent rate low. The only other things I need to do then is stay aware of my speed, altitude, heading, the plane and canopies in the air from the other jumpers on the load and fly with those subtle weight shifts - but what the hey, wingsuit solos are simple, right? Oh yeah, my arms are already feeling the strain, but it's a good kind of hurt and I figure I can push through it for the rest of the jump. Then my mental dytter sounds again somewhere around 2 mins and I wonder if I've flown out over the lake too far? Never mind, I've been out further than this, but I'm still well West of the DZ too, so I use the motivation to haul ass toward the DZ, planning my flight path around the canopies still in the air. I'm hitting around 6000ft now, my first audible beeps sound, and I can start to really see my movement relative to the ground, I line up with a road that heads where I'm going and tweak my position for max forward drive. I'm pretty sure I'll make it back now and my mental dytter is screaming in disbelief, but my alti looks good, neither of my audibles have sounded the second alarms and the ground still looks a safe distance away, so I go with it until my audibles sound the second beeps at 4000ft, now I'm in countdown mode, I line up for where I want to deploy and start looking at the alti, waiting to see 2700 ft. 2700 ft rolls around and I grab the PC handle and pitch hard with my right arm while correcting for the assymetry with my legwing, this time I even get the right wing gripper again after pitching and keep flying for all I'm worth. I could feel the container open and the bag leave and I know what's coming, so I try to relax... What feels like an eternity after I pitch, my Nitro 120 is out of the bag and catching enoug air to swing me a bit further than horizontal, I collapsed my wings as the swing started and now I'm kind-of on my back and looking slightly up, but mostly behind me to see the canopy expand slowly through it's snivel. The deployment starts out looking good, but it soon turns into a 180 and it's all I can do to be ready to harness steer my way around with the canopy once the ride starts.... The canopy spins around hard but I keep up pretty good and even though it has shut my camcorder off, I have managed to avoid linetwists and gotten the canopy level and straight pretty quick after doing about one and a half rotations. I find the canopies still in the air - two tandems, but I'm above both of them. I check my alti - 2400 ft - good, plenty of altitude to set up a nice landing. I do some front riser turns to get below the tandems and then it's swoop time... I'm buzzing for the longest time, this was my 140th wingsuit jump and my 58th solo wingsuit jump and it's more awesome than when I did my first wingsuit jumps a year ago. In that time I've only done 40 skydives without my wingsuit, so I guess I can understand why some people don't recognize me in the plane if I'm not in my wingsuit.. damn, that got long! other than a desire to share that jump, my point is that now that I've shifted focus to flying to cover as much gound as I can, I've also happened to do my first 3 minute jump from our standard turbine altitude I'll still do the solos whenever there's no flockers around, but the flocking is what it's all about. My newest favourite flocking thing is to switch to flying on my back at 6000ft, ahead of and below my regular flocking buddy, who pulls at 5000ft, at which point I have the visuals of him collapsing his wings and sinking closer to me while pitching, then his deployment, which I get to see from the same level if I match the fallrates just right, while I'm flying away, finally his slider has come down all the way and only now is his canopy slowing him below my descent rate, so I do a half barrel roll onto my belly, fly the rest of the way to 4000ft and pull. I love this wingsuit stuff. soon to be gone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #13 June 29, 2005 That was a really good read! I'm with you that my slowest vertical dives have been the ones where I covered the greatest distance. I've never seen 40mph. The slowest average I've had was 49mph, and I'm happy with that considering our altitude AMSL and the fact that I'm shorter and chunkier than you are. (But WAY better looking!) I now have 139 Birdman jumps. About 50 of those have been chasing new birds at between 60 and 118 mph, a bunch of small flocks, and the occasional solo which is increasingly becoming FS with the Porter depending on the pilot. Our Porter is being upgraded to a H4 Airframe, 4 bladed prop with a -34, and I'm interested in seeing the changes after exit! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #14 June 29, 2005 Glad we sorted that out! I'm catching up on loads of news! Thanks! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #15 June 29, 2005 QuoteMaybe this is for another thread, but why do you think there is such... animosity between some wingsuit pilots? Because a large majority of wingsuit pilots fall into 2 catagories. A) Higher jump number skydivers that never really developed the social skills to play well in groups, and have trouble learing something new with others simply because they might be seen as not being "good" at it. -and- B) Lower jump number skydivers who have not developed any social skills but want to look and be reguarded as "cool" long before they have the skillset to properly learn wingsuit flight.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #16 June 29, 2005 Because a large majority of wingsuit pilots fall into 2 catagories. A) Higher jump number skydivers that never really developed the social skills to play well in groups, and have trouble learing something new with others simply because they might be seen as not being "good" at it. -and- B) Lower jump number skydivers who have not developed any social skills but want to look and be reguarded as "cool" long before they have the skillset to properly learn wingsuit flight. You hit the nail right on the head with these and I completely agree with you on the two above but would like to add two more: C) The kind of jumper that mocks others that take themselves too seriously. Which is in and of itself a display of the lack of social skills, ironically, ridiculing someone else with bad social skills. But its still funny. D) The kind of individual that does things on there own terms, their own way outside the status quo. This isn't a social skills issue but it will bring out the some bad social vibes from others that don't agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites voodew1 0 #17 June 29, 2005 Spoken like a true rebel--- The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #18 June 30, 2005 Very valid input from both you and Diablopilot. As for being a rebel - well, we were trying to look at all groups, right? I know you stir things up on occasion, but I don't think your passion has ever been questioned! Am I correct? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites VectorBoy 0 #19 June 30, 2005 I know you stir things up on occasion, but I don't think your passion has ever been questioned! Am I correct? t Passion, No. Motives, skills and intentions yes and thats not a bad thing. But passion never. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites greybeard 0 #20 July 3, 2005 See ya in the sky Perry! Great read 'whatever'. Good info! 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Tonto 1 #9 June 29, 2005 I'm not flaming.I respect everyone's opinion in this forum. I think I've been more careful here because this is my most precious form of flight and I feel some form of kinship with others who feel the same. I know I fall clearly in the "I like to fly FAST" camp. To me, going slow or for time is like opening high and hanging on the brakes. I don't mind if others think thats cool though. Even in a slow suit - I like to try and make it go FAST! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #10 June 29, 2005 I don't think the manufacturers have anything to do with the gripes ( I don't know every gripe and could be wrong). We can't blame one suit maker over another, they have nothing to do with it. Suits are lifeless objects without the pilots, who have, Its Egos..... Have you ever heard that skydivers are the greatest people if you can get past their egos? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #11 June 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteLess politics at flybirdman.com! Less Action too. "The new Phi will be out this summer!" Posted by Kevin on Friday March 26, 2004 t Uh, are you talking about the news? I think you're seeing some type of cached entry.. we have news all the way up to 06/22/05. Let me know.. Try hitting "shift-reload" Kevin :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatever 0 #12 June 29, 2005 Quote I know I fall clearly in the "I like to fly FAST" camp. To me, going slow or for time is like opening high and hanging on the brakes. I don't mind if others think thats cool though. Even in a slow suit - I like to try and make it go FAST! t I know what you're saying, t , and when I started wingsuiting I was all obsessed with longest delays possible too. Flocking with some faster wingsuit flyers soon cured me of that !! Now I don't fly for slowest vertical possible or fastest forward, I try to fly what feels like the most efficient way. I cover more ground than I used to compared to when going for distance, yet my descent rate is slower than when I concentrated purely on that.... Maybe the tracking race I took part in on Saturday helped, as this past Sunday I did two solos in the morning, tried to follow the Otter for as long as possible and just haul ass after that - see the attached pic for the Pro-Track graph on the 2nd one. My 2 Pro-Tracks both show the same spikes and numbers, as they are both in my helmet being audibles primarily and dataloggers secondarily. My Suunto X6 is my primary datalogger, as it does not time out at 119 sec, like the Pro-Tracks and it's not fooled like a Pro-Track when you get above the plane on exit. It showed: 13858 ft at exit, 10417 ft at 60 sec, 6857 ft at 120 sec, 3310 ft at 180 sec 2520 ft at 188 sec - which is the point where my canopy opening started slowing me down 2395 ft at 192 sec - which is the point where my canopy is fully flying that jump was such a trip! I hop out of the Otter, facing forward, keep collapsed just long enough for the horizontal stab to enter my peripheral vision, then I pop and inflate and get on with chasing the plane until it's too far away, at which point I start flying my pattern, flat turns only, really subtle weight shifts with the hips to turn, at 60 sec my pre-wingsuit-skydiver-mindset-mental-dytter kicks in and a quick alti check puts the feeling that I should pull soon to rest. It's also pretty trippy to see 10 500 ft on your alti at that point! So I reset the mental dytter and get on with trying to max out my S3, I try to feel and control the tension in every point I can in the wings, by rolling my shoulders, pushing my elbows forward, pushing down and pulling out on the grippers, pushing out with my knees, pushing out and down with my feet, rolling my ankles outward, pointing my toes, keeping the right amount of arch/flatness/de-arch and keeping my head down and still. It's such a weird feeling, when I get it right I can try to angle down as hard as I can, yet my trajectory won't get any steeper, my forward speed just picks up and I feel the resistance of the airstream keeping my descent rate low. The only other things I need to do then is stay aware of my speed, altitude, heading, the plane and canopies in the air from the other jumpers on the load and fly with those subtle weight shifts - but what the hey, wingsuit solos are simple, right? Oh yeah, my arms are already feeling the strain, but it's a good kind of hurt and I figure I can push through it for the rest of the jump. Then my mental dytter sounds again somewhere around 2 mins and I wonder if I've flown out over the lake too far? Never mind, I've been out further than this, but I'm still well West of the DZ too, so I use the motivation to haul ass toward the DZ, planning my flight path around the canopies still in the air. I'm hitting around 6000ft now, my first audible beeps sound, and I can start to really see my movement relative to the ground, I line up with a road that heads where I'm going and tweak my position for max forward drive. I'm pretty sure I'll make it back now and my mental dytter is screaming in disbelief, but my alti looks good, neither of my audibles have sounded the second alarms and the ground still looks a safe distance away, so I go with it until my audibles sound the second beeps at 4000ft, now I'm in countdown mode, I line up for where I want to deploy and start looking at the alti, waiting to see 2700 ft. 2700 ft rolls around and I grab the PC handle and pitch hard with my right arm while correcting for the assymetry with my legwing, this time I even get the right wing gripper again after pitching and keep flying for all I'm worth. I could feel the container open and the bag leave and I know what's coming, so I try to relax... What feels like an eternity after I pitch, my Nitro 120 is out of the bag and catching enoug air to swing me a bit further than horizontal, I collapsed my wings as the swing started and now I'm kind-of on my back and looking slightly up, but mostly behind me to see the canopy expand slowly through it's snivel. The deployment starts out looking good, but it soon turns into a 180 and it's all I can do to be ready to harness steer my way around with the canopy once the ride starts.... The canopy spins around hard but I keep up pretty good and even though it has shut my camcorder off, I have managed to avoid linetwists and gotten the canopy level and straight pretty quick after doing about one and a half rotations. I find the canopies still in the air - two tandems, but I'm above both of them. I check my alti - 2400 ft - good, plenty of altitude to set up a nice landing. I do some front riser turns to get below the tandems and then it's swoop time... I'm buzzing for the longest time, this was my 140th wingsuit jump and my 58th solo wingsuit jump and it's more awesome than when I did my first wingsuit jumps a year ago. In that time I've only done 40 skydives without my wingsuit, so I guess I can understand why some people don't recognize me in the plane if I'm not in my wingsuit.. damn, that got long! other than a desire to share that jump, my point is that now that I've shifted focus to flying to cover as much gound as I can, I've also happened to do my first 3 minute jump from our standard turbine altitude I'll still do the solos whenever there's no flockers around, but the flocking is what it's all about. My newest favourite flocking thing is to switch to flying on my back at 6000ft, ahead of and below my regular flocking buddy, who pulls at 5000ft, at which point I have the visuals of him collapsing his wings and sinking closer to me while pitching, then his deployment, which I get to see from the same level if I match the fallrates just right, while I'm flying away, finally his slider has come down all the way and only now is his canopy slowing him below my descent rate, so I do a half barrel roll onto my belly, fly the rest of the way to 4000ft and pull. I love this wingsuit stuff. soon to be gone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #13 June 29, 2005 That was a really good read! I'm with you that my slowest vertical dives have been the ones where I covered the greatest distance. I've never seen 40mph. The slowest average I've had was 49mph, and I'm happy with that considering our altitude AMSL and the fact that I'm shorter and chunkier than you are. (But WAY better looking!) I now have 139 Birdman jumps. About 50 of those have been chasing new birds at between 60 and 118 mph, a bunch of small flocks, and the occasional solo which is increasingly becoming FS with the Porter depending on the pilot. Our Porter is being upgraded to a H4 Airframe, 4 bladed prop with a -34, and I'm interested in seeing the changes after exit! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #14 June 29, 2005 Glad we sorted that out! I'm catching up on loads of news! Thanks! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #15 June 29, 2005 QuoteMaybe this is for another thread, but why do you think there is such... animosity between some wingsuit pilots? Because a large majority of wingsuit pilots fall into 2 catagories. A) Higher jump number skydivers that never really developed the social skills to play well in groups, and have trouble learing something new with others simply because they might be seen as not being "good" at it. -and- B) Lower jump number skydivers who have not developed any social skills but want to look and be reguarded as "cool" long before they have the skillset to properly learn wingsuit flight.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #16 June 29, 2005 Because a large majority of wingsuit pilots fall into 2 catagories. A) Higher jump number skydivers that never really developed the social skills to play well in groups, and have trouble learing something new with others simply because they might be seen as not being "good" at it. -and- B) Lower jump number skydivers who have not developed any social skills but want to look and be reguarded as "cool" long before they have the skillset to properly learn wingsuit flight. You hit the nail right on the head with these and I completely agree with you on the two above but would like to add two more: C) The kind of jumper that mocks others that take themselves too seriously. Which is in and of itself a display of the lack of social skills, ironically, ridiculing someone else with bad social skills. But its still funny. D) The kind of individual that does things on there own terms, their own way outside the status quo. This isn't a social skills issue but it will bring out the some bad social vibes from others that don't agree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voodew1 0 #17 June 29, 2005 Spoken like a true rebel--- The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #18 June 30, 2005 Very valid input from both you and Diablopilot. As for being a rebel - well, we were trying to look at all groups, right? I know you stir things up on occasion, but I don't think your passion has ever been questioned! Am I correct? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #19 June 30, 2005 I know you stir things up on occasion, but I don't think your passion has ever been questioned! Am I correct? t Passion, No. Motives, skills and intentions yes and thats not a bad thing. But passion never. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greybeard 0 #20 July 3, 2005 See ya in the sky Perry! Great read 'whatever'. Good info! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
