The111 1 #1 May 25, 2004 I made a post months ago about bag orientation. I had to take 8 weeks off due to a back injury, and during that time I got my corners cut and got a long bridle. This weekend I jumped for the first time (no wingsuit yet). On the first jump I did a hop n pop, and I had packed the bag rotated a full 180 (grommet to BOC). I opened up to a million linetwists (no fun and superbad deja vu since that's what happened on my last jump two months ago where I hurt myself) but fortunately it flew straight and I kicked out of them. Our very own Rdutch watched my deployment from the plane and said I looked good but he could see the bag rotating as soon as it left the container. Any ideas what happened? I've heard it said not to pack grommet to BOC *unless* your corners are cut very low. Well, my seams were cut all the way to the end and then sewn back up 1" (less than one third of the original seam length). I'll post a pic when I get home if necessary. So I would think this is low enough, and I would also think that since it was a freefall and not a BM jump, the bag wouldn't have as much a chance of hanging up on those tiny corners that are left (the bag's leaving "up" instead of "back"). But obviously the bag did hang up on those corners (or something). I packed it normal (line stows to BOC) again on my next jump and got the kind of perfectly on heading opening I expect from my Spectre. :) So I'm pretty sure I don't want to pack grommet to BOC again. Those linetwists were no fun. But I will start jumping the suit again soon and am still undecided how I will pack for that. I've had very knowledgeable BM pilots tell me they don't rotate their bag at all, and I've had very gear-knowledgeable folks tell me that the Vector 3 was designed to have the lines sit in the BOC and have the bag fit in best that way, and I kind of agree, it seemed like a really ghetto fit when I had it rotated and it seemed wrong to have my lines all up against the reserve tray. But I also see that no matter how much you shut down your suit before pull, you will still have some forward motion meaning your bag will get pulled back, in which case it makes sense to have the bridle attachment point closest to the direction of extraction. As usual, I'm torn... I've been through all these issues a million times before (in my mind and on these boards), so if you're as sick of the redundancy as I am, feel free to ignore or flame me. Otherwise feel free to offer up thoughts.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 May 25, 2004 Is there a reason why you are not packing grommet straight up or at just a slight angle back instead of the full 180? I've got best results packing it straight up on every jump.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #3 May 25, 2004 It's a REALLY bad fit for my rig if I do that. Though I've done it a few times before, it was hard as hell to close the container and looked like crap. Though I guess "effort to close" and appearance should not be more important than a safe deployment. Now that my corners are cut it's even harder to close normally... I'm not even sure how hard it will be to get the bag in there all frankestein (grommet to pin) now.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obi 0 #4 May 26, 2004 On my old rig (Vector 3, Stiletto 120) I always packed the pod SLIGHTLY rotated (grommet 45° up front) and had fine results even without cut corners. On my new rig (Atom 0000 with CF 89) I cut the corners so there are sewn together only 1/2 inch from the bottom. Due to the wedge-shape of the main-tray and the pod it's impossible though to rotate it. But I just started jumping it, so I have no data yet. Anyway, I think it has a lot to do with how you deploy. If you change the angle of your body in the air you also change the angle at which the pod comes out of the tray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #5 May 26, 2004 I know that my opinion may be an unpopular one but I always rotate the bag the way the manufacturer has designed the rig to be packed. I personally always pack my rigs the same way regardless of the type of jumps I am planning on doing (by doing so I feel it lessens the chance of a mistake). I can see having a rig modified with cut corners (a mod that I have never used in the three rigs I have jumped wingsuit in) I think a longer bridle is a really good idea and I can see the reasoning behind grommet to pin, but I have and will always rotate the d-bag the way the manufacturer has designed the rig to be closed. I can even see on the more advaced S3 the use of the pocket for the pilot chute, but I also feel by moving a vital part of the system ( the pilot chute) it would make it easier to have a problem finding it or going to the wrong location first at pull time. I like to keep things simple and consistent so that possibility for mistakes are limited Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #6 May 26, 2004 QuoteI like to keep things simple and consistent so that possibility for mistakes are limitedYou can't expect to stay current on your reserve with an attitude like that. ;) How was SoCal? Do you make it out to Perris?"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #7 May 27, 2004 eeesh.. I don't pack grommet to BOC. That is putting the line stows as the first thing into the wind. It doesn't surprise me if you get a zillion twists. Kevin922 did that early on and had his first ride because of the same thing. I pack my as per mfg, grommet to reserve tray bottom. If possible, I rotate it up a little. If my container/bag combo allowed me to pack grommet to pin, I might do that, but I doubt it. That would have to be one squat bag in my rig. j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #8 May 28, 2004 I pack my wings, cut corners grommet to pin. X-fire2 149 and haven't had any problems other than just a turn on opening. I agree with others, I don't think grommet to BOC is the way to go. Just seems to be a bad idea in my mind for some reason<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinfishman 0 #9 May 28, 2004 I also pack grommet to reserve container on my Talon. Since opening the corners, having inboard stows on my bag and leaving at least 18" of free stow, I've had 0 openings with line twists in the last 70 or so wingsuit flights. I've thought of placing the grommet to BOC, but after 100 wingsuit flights with no problems, I see no need to change it. I know a lot depends on body position too, but I don't think the bag rotating on that axis would induce line twists. It hasn't for me at least, especially after getting the mods. my .02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #10 May 29, 2004 I throw this out there one more time. (As I always do when this issue comes up.) Follow the contaner manufacturers instructions when packing your rig for ANY jump. I know of at least one incident (Non-wingsuit) where packing grommet to BOC / Lines at the top contributed to a fatality.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites The111 1 #11 May 30, 2004 QuoteFollow the contaner manufacturers instructions when packing your rig for ANY jump. Are there any manufacturers that would even endorse packing grommet to pin? I'm pretty sure RWS endorses the cut corner mod and when one of their riggers did the mod for me he said packing grommet to BOC would be ok. But I'm obviously not doing that again. Though I am planning on doing grommet to pin. QuoteI know of at least one incident (Non-wingsuit) where packing grommet to BOC / Lines at the top contributed to a fatality. Care to elaborate? Why would someone pack like that for a non-WS jump?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #12 May 30, 2004 QuoteAre there any manufacturers that would even endorse packing grommet to pin? I'm pretty sure RWS endorses the cut corner mod and when one of their riggers did the mod for me he said packing grommet to BOC would be ok. But I'm obviously not doing that again. Though I am planning on doing grommet to pin. Sunrise Rigging with their Wings container can be packed grommet to pin. QuoteCare to elaborate? Why would someone pack like that for a non-WS jump? I would be interested as well. I've packed my Mirage G3 grommet to pin for almost the last 250 jumps with no issues at all. For the record, it does have the 9' bridle and cut corners.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #13 May 30, 2004 QuoteAre there any manufacturers that would even endorse packing grommet to pin? Wings. I find it does not improve openings or bag extraction on any rig I've owned. QuoteCare to elaborate? Why would someone pack like that for a non-WS jump? Unknown why. The jumper evidently used to jump a racer and packed like that normaly. After switching to a Reflex, he continued to pack that way I believe, and endend up with a horseshooe involving a slightly underset grommet (something all rig manufacturers have dealt with since the use of Stainles Steel gromets have become standard) and micro line suspension line.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jmfreefly 0 #14 May 31, 2004 http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_Disciplines_C3/Wing_Suit_Flying_F13/Birdman_specific_D_bag_P987554/ j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
diablopilot 2 #10 May 29, 2004 I throw this out there one more time. (As I always do when this issue comes up.) Follow the contaner manufacturers instructions when packing your rig for ANY jump. I know of at least one incident (Non-wingsuit) where packing grommet to BOC / Lines at the top contributed to a fatality.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #11 May 30, 2004 QuoteFollow the contaner manufacturers instructions when packing your rig for ANY jump. Are there any manufacturers that would even endorse packing grommet to pin? I'm pretty sure RWS endorses the cut corner mod and when one of their riggers did the mod for me he said packing grommet to BOC would be ok. But I'm obviously not doing that again. Though I am planning on doing grommet to pin. QuoteI know of at least one incident (Non-wingsuit) where packing grommet to BOC / Lines at the top contributed to a fatality. Care to elaborate? Why would someone pack like that for a non-WS jump?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #12 May 30, 2004 QuoteAre there any manufacturers that would even endorse packing grommet to pin? I'm pretty sure RWS endorses the cut corner mod and when one of their riggers did the mod for me he said packing grommet to BOC would be ok. But I'm obviously not doing that again. Though I am planning on doing grommet to pin. Sunrise Rigging with their Wings container can be packed grommet to pin. QuoteCare to elaborate? Why would someone pack like that for a non-WS jump? I would be interested as well. I've packed my Mirage G3 grommet to pin for almost the last 250 jumps with no issues at all. For the record, it does have the 9' bridle and cut corners.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #13 May 30, 2004 QuoteAre there any manufacturers that would even endorse packing grommet to pin? Wings. I find it does not improve openings or bag extraction on any rig I've owned. QuoteCare to elaborate? Why would someone pack like that for a non-WS jump? Unknown why. The jumper evidently used to jump a racer and packed like that normaly. After switching to a Reflex, he continued to pack that way I believe, and endend up with a horseshooe involving a slightly underset grommet (something all rig manufacturers have dealt with since the use of Stainles Steel gromets have become standard) and micro line suspension line.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #14 May 31, 2004 http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_Disciplines_C3/Wing_Suit_Flying_F13/Birdman_specific_D_bag_P987554/ j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
