MTR - 2 ?

[TomAiello 25]

Does anyone know anything about Matter's new suit? All I've heard throught the grapevine is "bigger leg wing to balance the arms". Anyone have more?

I heard that they are at Elsinore this month? Anyone down there know?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[skyjuggler 0]

Tom,

Cedric is indeed in California at the moment. I was emailing him, cursing him for being in sunny CA as apposed to cold winter europe. If you want to get hold of him just email the matter email which is on the web page. He said he is jumping at Perris regularly so that could mean he is checking Elsinore out aswell. For convinence, here is the Matter email:

[email protected]

[quade 3]

I looked at the black suit he had at Perris yesterday.

The design and finish of the suit is amazing. It looks like they've cut some of the surface drag with some of the fine detailing like the smooth covers over the zippers. The leg wing goes from the outside edges of the legs and all the way down to the ankles.

It looked as if it was much easier to get into and out of than anything I'd previously seen.

It looked as if the arm position for optimal flight was going to be much more natural than anything I'd previously seen.

It looked as if the flying surface area was much larger and efficient than anything I'd previously seen.

It was even in my color.

I'd love to try one.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[LouDiamond 1]

From what I have seen of it, it appears that they have addressed some of the shortcomings I mentioned in my review of the MTR-1. The apparent change in fabric may help with the durability issues but I am still not sold on the type of zippers used. They are great for use on marine dry bags and dry suits but a bit difficult to open smoothly sometimes. With the increase in the leg wing and zipper placement, this might make for some interesting post opening unzips. Of interest is the increased arm and leg wing size. While the arm position might be more optimal compared to the MTR-1, I think combined with the larger leg wing this suit might feel even more floaty. Which also brings forward speed into question. The improvement on the cutaway handle is always a good thing as is the ability to now undo the legs and store them in the up position like on a Birdman suit. It does look interesting indeed. I look forward to seeing how it actually performs. Any chance you'll be able to fly one Quade?

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I looked at the black suit he had at Perris yesterday.

It was rather interesting. Cedric has offered to let me take it for a spin, (errr..., ok bad choice of words) uhhh, "flight" next weekend. I'll let you know what I think.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[quade 3]

JP is going to be a much better reviewer for the in-flight portion. He has -way- more experience with BirdMan suits than I do.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[gus 1]

I assume this is the MTR-2 here. Picture from flybirdman.com.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

I assume this is the MTR-2 here. Picture from flybirdman.com.

Yep. Cedric emailed that pic to me somewhere in the midst of this discussion.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

...combined with the larger leg wing this suit might feel even more floaty. Which also brings forward speed into question.

Hmmm. Perhaps we are looking for different things in the suit.

Honestly, I'd prefer a suit with less forward speed, if I didn't have to sacrifice lift to get it.

"Floaty", from my point of view, is a positive characteristic.

The real defining characteristic is glide angle. Slow forward speed and slow fall rate, or fast forward speed and fast fall rate, doesn't really make as much difference to me as the relationship between forward speed and fall rate on any particular suit.

That said, if glide angle is the same, I'd prefer a suit that was slower (in both dimensions) for several reasons. The suit will be easier to maneuver in close proximity to fixed objects (cliffs, suspension cables, ski slopes, etc) since it will give the pilot more reaction time. Further, the suit will begin to fly sooner from a zero airspeed (i.e. BASE) launch.

I wonder how long it will be before BASE and Skydiving wingsuits diverge in much the same ways that BASE and Skydiving canopies already have?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I wonder how long it will be before BASE and Skydiving wingsuits diverge in much the same ways that BASE and Skydiving canopies already have?

Not too long I think.

I don't BASE but from what I've talked with people on the subject about, BASE jumpers want different things for sure.

Cedric's suit seems to be a little more BASE friendly at first glance, as it seems to be more forgiving in initial body position required to make it "go".

Do BASE jumpres want drive or float?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[robibird 2]

again and again and again...

1. Gravity is our only engine.
2.Speed is our only friend ( because the max wing span we have is terribly small)

GLIDE RATIO guys is the key and the only measure...not the free fall time.

You can have big canopy w slow decent rate or small canopy w faster decent rate but the GLIDE RATIO can be the same. Smaller will penetrate wind better... this would be one of advantages of small canopies for example - same w WS.

.....which means.. Two jumpers with the SAME weight and similar flying skill, were one is floaty and behind another who keeping the same level of flight with floaty guy, but flying faster forward means that the faster one has better glide ratio = covering more distance during the vertical decent. Hope this is easy to understand

Floaty usually means lack of glide

RoBi

PS.Tom ,
If you ever will get the suit which will have slow decent and slow forward speed with the glide 1:2.5 ( for example ) let me know please.

Robert Pecnik
[email protected]
www.phoenix-fly.com

[TomAiello 25]

Cedric sent me this email about the suit:

Quote

The differences with the first model(MTR1) are huge both in design and fabric:

We kept the mono-wing system(very slow vertical speeds and comfort of flying) and we added some new stuff:


- New fabric(100% polyamide)
- leg zippers for an easy set-up and landing.
- new cutaway handle.
- Reinforced cordura parts inside the suit for durability.
- Longer legwings with integrated booties for a higher horizontal speed.
- More neoprene inserts for more comfort.


Price is +/- 930$ and delivery time is 1 week, the suit is available in 3 colors: red-grey-black, more colors will be added soon.
The new wingsuit will be on our website in mid-february.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Do BASE jumpres want drive or float?

In general, BASE jumpers want glide angle. Flatter glide is better for outflying talus. Whether that glide comes from more drive or more float is secondary.

What I'd love to see is a suit that starts flying immediately. I'm pretty sure that they only thing that effects that much is the wingloading, so bigger, floatier wings may help in that regard.

Hey, Robi, I'll keep looking for a suit that starts flying immediately, and doesn't fall down at all, and flies at very slow forward speed. But I think you're more likely to find it than I am.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[LouDiamond 1]

Robbi took the words out of my mouth. Well not exactly but the jist was the same

One of the things I mentioned in my review of the MTR-1 is the lack of my being able to keep up with BillVon in his Birdman suit. He was hauling ass (horizontally)across the ground while I seemed to putz along. I was somewhat concerned about making it back in fact. The change in arm position on the MTR-2 might show an increase in forward drive but the addition of leg wing may cancel it out and leave you with an even more "floaty" suit. Another thing, I am purely speculating here, that looks to be a concern is controllability with a leg wing that size. For those who fly a SF3, you know what I am talking about. The big difference from a SF3 and the MTR series style suits is that body position on the MTR-1 requires you to tension that leg wing in an already wide stance. The additional length/width that has been added to the MTR-2 will undoubtedly put more emphasis on the already wide stance and may make it less maneuverable for the pilot. I still look forward to seeing for myself how this suit performs as the pilot is the most crucial part of any suit.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING