Water landing emergency procedures

[kevin922 0]

Anyone know the recommendations for water emergency landings while in a birdman suit?

(lemme guess, the recommendation is "don't land in the water") ?
-- I saw there weren't any recommendations on the website.. other than don't do it.

[murrays 0]

Land it inflated! it would be like a large air mattress ;-)

Seriously, could you keep a bunch of air trapped somehow? If you could use it to provide flotation it could be an asset on an unintentional water landing....btw - I've only seen pictures of wingsuits so I don't know how difficult this may be to accomplish.

oh yeah - Don't land in the water!

[kevin922 0]

I don't think that would work. The wings would probably fill up with water and make it impossible to float.

[murrays 0]

Carrying a flotation device of some sort would then be a pretty good idea whenever you're jumping near a body of water you could land in.

I knew a jumper that drowned in Lake Erie sixteen years ago. They jumped over clouds and were way out over the lake when they opened. Three of the four on the load landed in the water. Two were saved by two guys that were just about to take their boat out of the water for the winter (it was November) but the third fellow didn't make it to shore. In this case, hypothermia likely prevented him from swimming very far. I spoke to one of the guys that was saved and he said that everything was going black when the guys in the boat grabbed him.

The thing is, in cold water, you chill faster by swimming as it increases the flow of water over your body. You're better off curling into a ball and floating as long as you can....but you need flotation to do that. Jumpers have saved themselves in the past by using hard helmets to trap air or using old front mount reserves as flotation..they would float for a while before filling with water. You just have to use whatever you can to save yourself.

I would think that a wingsuit has some potential to trap air. You don't have to displace very much water to give you a lot of buoyancy. If you're worried about this potentiality, see whether you can inflate it in a pool or warm lake with a safety boat there to help you. Don't take your rig in though...I assume you have a Cypres.

Explore the possibilities and be prepared!

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[basehoundsam 0]

I can tell you from personal experience..... don't do it. A wingsuit in moving water is a real potential death sentence. You will never be able to get out of it completely. You will be attached to your rig, and you will go down with it. I was on a BASE jump, and chopped my main. I was lucky not to lose my life on that one...

A wingsuit is nothing but a trap in water... it will provide zero flotation, and maximum captivity.

just my .02 cents.

Jay E.
www.adrenalineexploits.com

Jay Epstein Ramirez
www.adrenalineexploits.com

[murrays 0]

Jay,

Thank you for the voice of experience! Glad you're here to share.

Murray

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[cpoxon 0]

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-- I saw there weren't any recommendations on the website.. other than don't do it.

There used to be

Under WATERLANDINGS:

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Avoid waterlandings at all costs! Without immediate help it is extremely dangerous to land on water with the wing suit. If that should happen, keep your hooknife ready, cut your wings away, undress the suit and gear, be prepared to use the hooknife to get rid of the suit. All this can be extremely difficult or in same cases impossible. Once again, avoid waterlandings at all costs!

I wonder why it isn't in the cuurent flight manual? The information still sounds valid to me.

[outrager 6]

Yo !

I have landed in the water a couple of times after BASE flights. Both times i was fairly close to the shore and it wasn't a big deal. I had my arms unzipped right after opening and freed my legs after entering the water. I could swim easily, but the wings fill up with water and become a drag. Once you reach the shore/boat/etc be prepared for a huge extra water weight in the wings that you will have to pull up.

As Jay said, moving water can be a real danger! Getting out of the suit underwater is nearly impossible. I would advice using some kind of a compact and quickly inflatable flotation gear (Aquaboy?) if you're likely to take a swim.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[SPY 0]

Never had to try water landing but if it's obvious soon that water will be the landing area, I would cutaway and unzip the arm wings to be able to fold them inside the suit, somewhere between the chest and the chest strap in a way that choke them and prevent them to fill with water.

For the leg wing, unzipping both legs seems to free it enough to put the booties in the hip holes (where the legstraps of the rig go) and choke PARTIALLY the leg wing, so it will be less likely to fill with water.

That's only an idea but as I write this I have my wingsuit and rig on to try it "live" and it seems to be efficient... at least on the ground.

S-P
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[kevin922 0]

Quote

Never had to try water landing but if it's obvious soon that water will be the landing area, I would cutaway and unzip the arm wings to be able to fold them inside the suit, somewhere between the chest and the chest strap in a way that choke them and prevent them to fill with water.

For the leg wing, unzipping both legs seems to free it enough to put the booties in the hip holes (where the legstraps of the rig go) and choke PARTIALLY the leg wing, so it will be less likely to fill with water.

That's only an idea but as I write this I have my wingsuit and rig on to try it "live" and it seems to be efficient... at least on the ground.

That may work on impact, however when you start swimming I seriously doubt the leg wing is going to stay where you put it... (haven't tried zipping up the arm wings so I don't know how "stable" that would be either).

[SPY 0]

Actually, the armwings stowed under the chest strap seem to stay in place whilw moving, but the lower wing might effectivly free during swimming. May be stowing the booties again in the hip holes but doing it backward will keep it longer?

Any other ideas?

Probably the procedure for landing in water would be:

"Get rid of your wings BEFORE landing the best you can and the fastest you can, whichever way you find easiest."

S-P
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[SkymonkeyONE 3]

After thinking about it for a bit, here is what I would do in my skyflyer if there was no way I could avoid a water landing:

UNZIP out of the wings, making sure the zippers are ALL the way up to the stops. You are not getting out of the suit unless you unzip the arms, so pulling your arm cutaways first would be counterproductive in my mind.

UNZIP all the way out of your legs also, then ball your leg wing up and stick it in your vent hole (SkyFlyer specific).

UNDO your cheststrap completely, then UNZIP both front zippers completely down, letting the center fabric portion just drape down between your legs.

From there, you should be able to flare, being prepared to do a PLF if the water is shallow. Once you are in the water, lay forward out of your harness and arms. Next, reach down with both hands and loosen your legstraps enough to swim forward and free of the suit and harness. I have made quite a few intentional water jumps in the past 20 years, both freefall square (and round) and SL round. Keeping a cool head is the key to making it out of your gear.

I am not sure how much of this sequence a low-pulling BASE jumper could get through prior to water entry, but I would say that the most important parts are getting your arms unzipped completely, then unzipping both main zippers in order to gain access to your legstraps.

Chuck
BM-I

[SkyFlyer 0]

I agree with your approach Chuck! I was in the Keys last month and screwed around in the Sky Van a little too long which put me waaaaay out. Long story short, I exited over water and flew my ass of to get back to land all the time thinking about what I was going to do if I had to get wet!

[Faber 0]

Quote

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Avoid waterlandings at all costs! Without immediate help it is extremely dangerous to land on water with the wing suit. If that should happen, keep your hooknife ready, cut your wings away, undress the suit and gear, be prepared to use the hooknife to get rid of the suit. All this can be extremely difficult or in same cases impossible. Once again, avoid waterlandings at all costs!

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I wonder why it isn't in the cuurent flight manual? The information still sounds valid to me.

They tell you to avoid at ALL costs,this will mean (in my ears),that you have better chances nearly nomatter what you do.Anyway i seccond Yuri`s oppinion on using somthing to keep you up.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber