kkeenan 13 #1 July 2, 2007 An incident yesterday brought home the importance of an idea that I have had for a while concerning the reliability of cutaway systems. I think there are some lessons to be learned from the events, which, thankfully, I am still on this side of the white light and able to share. A sideline may be why shouldn't I take up bowling, golf, or some other less deadly pastime than CRW. We were doing Rotations from 13.5k at ZHills, and were at about 8-9k when all this BS started. While transitioning from #2 up to pilot on a 4-way Rotation practice, I had the misfortune of snagging my left toggle on the nose of the canopy below me, piloted by Allen Gutshall. While some say that the Lightning is not the quickest performing canopy around, I'm here to tell you that when you put in about 4 ft. of control input on a toggle, a 113 Lightning will spin up like an electric fan in the blink of an eye. The first lesson (other than keeping track of your toggles) is to watch out for your hands. My immediate reaction to the left turn was to try to get hold of my right toggle. As I reached up, and before I could even touch the toggle, my right arm was captured just above the wrist by the spinning lines and risers. This seemed to happen in an instant, and the next thing I knew, I had solid line twists from the bottom of my canopy down to my hand, which was in the lines. The canopy was spinning so powerfully that once all of the lines were twisted, it just got tighter and tighter. I was hanging from my right arm, and the crushing pressure on my wrist was incredible. In a CRW wrap, your hands are vital to survival. I was instantly down to one hand and the other one was in severe trouble. The canopy was thrashing me around like I was a cheap dog toy in the mouth of a Pit Bull. Thank God for Altitude. This seemed to go on for some time. I was praying for Allen to hurry up and cut away, as I was sure that this would help with the forces that I was expecting to amputate my arm any moment. I couldn't get Allen's canopy off my left foot, and actually he had already cut away, but I never felt him leave. I got my shoe kicked off and Allen's canopy left me alone. It seemed that my beloved 113, Zippy, had stopped spinning at this point. Maybe it was so twisted up that it wasn't really flying that much or it may have been that my spin rate had caught up with it and we were both spinning at the same speed. In any case, I was still hanging by one arm, attached by what looked like all the lines in a huge bundle. I very much hated the idea of sending a reserve up into that. I wanted to get free of all of it before cutting away, but I knew that there was no way my hand was getting out. I grabbed the cutaway handle with my left hand, felt the Velcro peel away and pulled. It went nowhere. It seems that a left handed cutaway pull is at a very awkward angle to generate much force. And hanging from one arm, I couldn't seem to put as much power into it as I would like. After a couple of yanks, however, my adrenaline was really spiking (whatever was left of it, anyway). I think it was the 4th pull that finally released the risers. This changed the loading, and a lot of the lines left my hand. The canopy was just a wad now and the drag dropped a lot. I could feel myself accelerating, still in a feet-to-earth attitude, hanging from the canopy. I looked at the ground and guessed that I was at about 5-6k. I knew that I would have to dump the reserve into the trailing main eventually, if I couldn’t get rid of it. I also knew that my CYPRES would do that at 750 ft. whether I liked it or not. Anyway, the altitude looked like it would give me enough time to use a hook knife on the remaining lines, and that seemed much more reasonable then trying to cut the huge bundle that was on there before. I was thinking about this and starting to reach for the nearest hook knife (luckily there were 3 that I could get to with my left hand). Just then the lines on my wrist shifted, and felt looser. I reached up with my left hand, and they pulled right off. Earlier, when Allen cut away, it was without much knowledge of what was going on with my parachute, other than it seemed to be going totally apeshit and flailing me all over the sky, while attached to his parachute. Once he had had enough of this, he cut away and did about a 5-8 sec. delay to get well below all this action. When I got the lines off my hand, I knew I had it made. Being free of that thing meant that I wouldn’t be making the crapshoot of deploying into a tangled main, and all that was left was a quick reserve ride. I flipped over to get stable face-to-earth, and the first thing I saw was Allen’s reserve below me and about 50 yards to my left. I had forgotten all about him, and this was a real surprise. I pulled my reserve ripcord as I went past Allen at about 100 mph. I’d like to say that I waved, but I think I my eyes were bugging out of my goggles with that one last drop of adrenaline in my system. I was open about 3k, and as I looked around at what seemed to be a lot of mains and freebags in the air, all I wanted to do was hang there and rest. I thought about chasing a freebag, as I am fond of doing, but decided I’d had enough excitement for one jump. My right arm felt useless, and I made left turns while I thought about how to land. In the couple of minutes it took to get to the ground, I decided that the arm would work one more time to flare and I landed just fine. It’s Monday morning, now, and everything is pretty good with the arm. It’s swollen and ugly, but no real damage. All this has me thinking about about the hard cutaway cable housings used on most high-performance sport canopies. I use them on my Stiletto and Katana canopies. A while back, it was seen that eliptical canopies could spin up in a short time on opening, and with enough twists, the risers can capture the ends of the cutaway cable, preventing their extraction. Bill Booth introduced some small cutaway housings that are installed in the risers, inside the channel where the end of the cutaway cable is. This is the part past where it goes through the small loop of the 3-Ring Release. It has been shown that only a few ounces of force holding that end of the cable will prevent the cable from being pulled by even the strongest of arms. The hard housings are like a short section of metal cutaway cable housing. You could park a car on one of these and it would still allow the cable to move freely. Some CRW jumpers may already use these, but I’ve never heard them mentioned by anyone. I’m not sure if the sort of twist I had actually bound up my cutaway cables, but it was sure hard to pull that handle. I feel very strongly that anyone doing CRW should think about installing these housings. They cost about $10-15 and can be installed in a few minutes. I think that narrow risers may be subject to this more than wide risers, but I have wide risers and I think they, too, should have them. If anyone knows any reason NOT to use the hard housings in CRW risers, I would be interested in hearing them. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plastic 0 #2 July 3, 2007 Outstanding story. I have had risers with hard housings for the last year or two because of the possibility of getting risers twisted on a bad wrap (the old sequential days of gaff to boomerang spring to mind). I am curious, do you guys really go from no2 to piolt without having hands in the toggles or did i mis-read your post. Glad you survived. Plastic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #3 July 3, 2007 Quote I am curious, do you guys really go from no2 to piolt without having hands in the toggles ... I try to have my hands in toggles for the transition, but don't always make it in time. I think from now on, I'll not make the move until the toggles are properly in hand. I guess I have more motivation, now that I have seen the results of my bad habbits.kk_____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plastic 0 #4 July 3, 2007 Sounds like a plan! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #5 July 3, 2007 Hi, Swoopers really are not bad people and I am sure they would like to help you out by showing you how some of their gear. Riser inserts are pretty much mandatory in the swoop community and have been for years now. You guys should adopt them too. Also a longer chest strap may help yall out to if you need to flatten your glide out and make up some distance. When you get where you need to go just tighten it back up. I know yall like the gear that is older and broken in (old and ratty) but there have been a few advances in technology since your wonderhog circa 1984 was made. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remko 0 #6 July 10, 2007 QuoteI knew that I would have to dump the reserve into the trailing main eventually, if I couldn’t get rid of it. I also knew that my CYPRES would do that at 750 ft. whether I liked it or not. No, CYPRES will not fire in that situation. Any fabric out will keep CYPRES from firing. That's why you don't need one for CReW. Love & Peace -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #7 July 11, 2007 Quote No, CYPRES will not fire in that situation. Any fabric out will keep CYPRES from firing. tell that to Adrian Nicholas scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #8 July 11, 2007 It doesn't matter how much fabric is out if you are moving fast enough at the firing altitude for an AAD then it will fire. You might want to rethink your statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remko 0 #9 July 11, 2007 Quotetell that to Adrian Nicholas Not to step on any toes I will rephrase myself. It takes a highly skilled skydiver with special gear to pilot a canopy in such a way that it will exceed CYPRES firing parameters. CYPRES was specifically designed not to fire during a wrap, entanglement or spinning mal, so it is not very likely that it will. That said, for CReW, your money is much better spent on a Tertiary. In this particular case (referring to the original post) trowing the Terts could have released tension on the entangled arm to help free it, or at least stop the spinning and provide more time to free it with a knife. Guys, try to be constructive with your postings. -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sargeatlarge 0 #10 July 12, 2007 Good to hear you're in once piece Kevin. Hard housings have a demonstrated capacity to save while I am unaware of any negative press about them. You want everything going for you...I also use an open hndle for my cutaway in case I only have my opposite hand (left hand) to cut away with. Cypres couldn't hurt...dpends on how much you have out. Carry a hook knife in your teeth maybe?Sarge Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Suavel 0 #11 July 18, 2007 Sorry for my inexperience but: What is a Tertiary? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #12 July 19, 2007 QuoteQuotetell that to Adrian Nicholas Not to step on any toes I will rephrase myself. It takes a highly skilled skydiver with special gear to pilot a canopy in such a way that it will exceed CYPRES firing parameters. CYPRES was specifically designed not to fire during a wrap, entanglement or spinning mal, so it is not very likely that it will. That said, for CReW, your money is much better spent on a Tertiary. In this particular case (referring to the original post) trowing the Terts could have released tension on the entangled arm to help free it, or at least stop the spinning and provide more time to free it with a knife. Guys, try to be constructive with your postings. Last time I checked, a CYPRES doesn't give a shit if you are spinning, upside down, shitting yourself, or making love to a foam snake for too long....If you meet the firing parameters, it fires. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #13 July 19, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuotetell that to Adrian Nicholas Not to step on any toes I will rephrase myself. It takes a highly skilled skydiver with special gear to pilot a canopy in such a way that it will exceed CYPRES firing parameters. CYPRES was specifically designed not to fire during a wrap, entanglement or spinning mal, so it is not very likely that it will. That said, for CReW, your money is much better spent on a Tertiary. In this particular case (referring to the original post) trowing the Terts could have released tension on the entangled arm to help free it, or at least stop the spinning and provide more time to free it with a knife. Guys, try to be constructive with your postings. Last time I checked, a CYPRES doesn't give a shit if you are spinning, upside down, shitting yourself, or making love to a foam snake for too long....If you meet the firing parameters, it fires. Please, someone correct me if I am wrong. An expert cypres will very probably NOT fire when in a wrap because you very probably WILL NOT meet the firing parameters. What's your point????? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #14 July 19, 2007 QuoteSorry for my inexperience but: What is a Tertiary? Tried a search..? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=tertiary&sb=score&mh=25 ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plastic 0 #15 July 20, 2007 I think the point wildcard was making was, if your descent rate meets the parameters for a cypres to fire it will fire. I get the point. Plastic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #16 July 26, 2007 QuoteAn expert cypres will very probably NOT fire when in a wrap because you very probably WILL NOT meet the firing parameters. What's your point????? My point exactly. The CYPRES wasn't designed to fire or not fire based on wraps, mals, or whatever. It's set on speed firing parameters alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remko 0 #17 August 9, 2007 [rude mode on] So you think They just pulled that 78 mph out of their ass or maybe they did some testing before they came up with that number? [rude mode off] -- Everything you know is wrong. But some of it is a useful first approximation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
