Need help with external switches for digital stills

[VTmotoMike08 0]

I am new to shooting digital stills, just got a digital rebel XT a couple weeks ago and I’ve done about 15 jumps with it so far.  I’m still trying to get the shutter switch to work well on it.

I first got a pro mouth switch.  This was easy to press, almost too easy because it is hard to tell when you are pressing it with free fall force wind on your face (to me at least).  Then after less than 5 jumps on it, the switch started sticking, so it would continuously take shots all the way down, stopping only when I unplugged it.  It has done this on almost every jump since.  Another camera flyer on my DZ mentioned that his occasionally does this too, so I ruled out a one product flaw.  Does anyone else have this problem?  So the pro mouth
switch is out.  I wish I could get my money back, but its opened and used.

I don’t think I can use the most popular bite switch with my helmet because I jump an optic illusion with is very snug on my XXL head and I have almost no jaw movement when wearing it.  It is my understanding that blow switches are generally inferior to either of the above because you can’t hold it down and keep it down for multiple shots.

So what can I do?  I really don’t want a hand switch that I have to run thru my jump suit, but if that is the only good option then I might do it.  Any help is much appreciated. Thanks

[Icon134 0]

Quote

I don’t think I can use the most popular bite switch with my helmet because I jump an optic illusion with is very snug on my XXL head and I have almost no jaw movement when wearing it.  It is my understanding that blow switches are generally inferior to either of the above because you can’t hold it down and keep it down for multiple shots.

I have and use a blow switch... and I'm able to take multiple shots... it's really quite simple to do this... you just blow through the tube and the switch stays closed... you stop blowing and it opens and it stops taking pictures... (depending on the settings in your camera) a blow switch however might be considered to be somewhat bulky...

My first switch was a Conceptus Tounge Switch... but when that failed I switched to a blow switch and like it a lot better... (besides with a blow switch I can tell tandem students the "tube" is for beer/vodka/etc... )

Scott

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[dragon2 0]

I´ve had biteswitches (broke/bit through 3 in less than 50 jumps), tongueswitches (worked ok), blowswitch (last the longest but can´t use switch without putting on helmet and I often have my mouth open in freefall so no pics then) now I only jump pro mouth switches, love them, I can keep my mouth open to smile at the passengers, they work great by hand too and they last me like forever, ie the remote plugs tend to break before the mouth switches do, at least for me so far.

I never use my switches to make multiple shots, I just push the button whenever I want one shot, still get 3 or more exits shots this way so see no reason to shoot 3 to 5fps as my cameras can do... But maybe a tongueswitch would suit you best then.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

It is my understanding that blow switches are generally inferior to either of the above because you can’t hold it down and keep it down for multiple shots.

Don't believe it. Blow switches work great. I have a switch I have used for over a thousand jumps still going strong. I have to laugh when I hear of how often the other switches break. Yes you can take multiple shots (see post above from Icon134), and yes you can take photos with the helmet off your head (just route the tube so you can access it externally). Although I have been tempted to wire in a separate push-button switch in parallel though to have it in a convenient location for hand holding my helmet for landing shots. In my opinion, about the only down side to a blow switch is its size. But if you have a Vapor or other flat-top style helmet, there is plenty of room for it.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

OK, so I am beginning to come around to the idea of using a blow switch. My info about not taking multiple shots came from one person at the DZ, maybe he has an older switch or maybe I misunderstood him. So if I am understanding correctly, blow switches can take multiple shots, but that is limited by how long you can continuously exhale without taking a breath. Right? For getting the perfect exit shot, I think it would be easier to crunch down on the bite or tongue switch than to continuously exhale, but everything is a compromise...

Anyone got a source for blow switches for digital cams (2.5 mm stereo plug)? Doesn't look like paragear has them. PM if needed.

In a perfect world, my pro mouth switch would offer a little bigger "click" when it is pressed so that I can feel it working and not stick in the ON position.

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

For getting the perfect exit shot, I think it would be easier to crunch down on the bite or tongue switch than to continuously exhale, but everything is a compromise...

It is not really exhaling, but putting positive air pressure into the tube using your mouth--not your lungs. It is a sealed system, so you don't really blow air continuously through the tube, but just use your mouth to pressurize the air in the tube. My description probably sounds more complicated than it really is. If you try one, it is extremely intuitive. And in reality, the part of the exit that is right for the perfect shot is really just a second or two, so it is not a long process.

Para-gear has blow switches. Go to:

http://www.paragear.com/templates/parachutes.asp?group=455&level=1

And scroll down about a quarter of the way until it says "Blow Switch." I'll bet others have these as well.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

I assume you mean item L1337 on that page, as it is the only blow switch. That says its for 35mm cameras, it is also for digital cams? I REALLY don't want to cut apart my camera and start soldering wires like that descriptions suggests. I sure hope there is a blow switch out there that uses the 2.5 mm stereo plug on my digital rebel.

Thanks,

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

I assume you mean item L1337 on that page, as it is the only blow switch. That says its for 35mm cameras, it is also for digital cams? I REALLY don't want to cut apart my camera and start soldering wires like that descriptions suggests. I sure hope there is a blow switch out there that uses the 2.5 mm stereo plug on my digital rebel.

Yes, it works for digital cameras. The Para-gear description is a little dated and not very clear. You do have to solder a 2.5mm (3/32-inch) plug onto the switch to use it with a Digital Rebel (or another appropriate plug for other DSLRs). But you don't have to take apart or modify your camera in any way. The bare 2.5mm plug is available at Radio Shack, or you can cut off one from a Canon or aftermarket wired remote shutter release.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

AH, I see. I've got some wire strippers and I'm pretty handy with tools in general so I'm sure a basic connection like that will be no problem. Hopefully I can hide the soldered connection inside my helmet, or at lease tape it down good with gaffers tape. Thanks.

[Icon134 0]

You will want to solder the wires to the wires coming from the plug... There are three wires on the plug but only connection points for the in the blow switch.

I have mine wired so the ground is attached to one side of the switch and the focus and switch close is attached to the other side. I also constructed an adapter so I could use my blow switch with a 50D.

I'd answer the whole blow switch multiple shots question but PharmerPhil seems to have covered that pretty well... The blow switch basically is a diaphram switch and although some air is likely to escape keeping positive pressure causes the switch to close and thus releases the shutter.

The camera needs to be in the appropriate mode and you can only take shots until the camera's buffer fills up... (which is dependant on the camera and other settings... ) but you can easily take multiple shots...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

Then after less than 5 jumps on it, the switch started sticking, so it would continuously take shots all the way down, stopping only when I unplugged it.  It has done this on almost every jump since.  Another camera flyer on my DZ mentioned that his occasionally does this too, so I ruled out a one product flaw.  Does anyone else have this problem?

I make my own tongue switch using a micro switch, a length of two-conductor wire (I only use the ground and shutter and leave the focus contact open), and a 2.5 mm audio plug. It's less than ten dollars worth of parts. In order to keep saliva out of the switch, I tape the end of a thumb cut from a plastic glove over it. Occasionally, the little "condom" leaks and shorts out the inside of the switch. I suspect that may be what's happening to you and your friend. Once I also found a short in the 2.5 mm plug, just from wear, I suppose.

I like the little roller micro switch because it is very easy to feel and gives good tactile feedback. If you have an old busted CD-rom drive, I'll bet you can find one inside

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Very interesting! That would probably explain why my switch sticks more in the air when its in my mouth than when I press it here on my desk with my finger.

A couple other questions:

-Anyone know where I can get an "extension" for my 2.5mm external shutter switch. I would like to preserve the port on my camera for as long as possible and constantly inserting and removing the jack is not the best way to do that. I hope this question is clear.
-Does using a blow switch as described disable the shutter on the camera body? Using the pro mouth switch does not, but one of the above post talked about adding another button to the outside of the helmet so I am not sure.

I'm gonna make a radio shack run and see what I can come up with...

Thanks.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

Very interesting! That would probably explain why my switch sticks more in the air when its in my mouth than when I press it here on my desk with my finger.

A couple other questions:

-Anyone know where I can get an "extension" for my 2.5mm external shutter switch. I would like to preserve the port on my camera for as long as possible and constantly inserting and removing the jack is not the best way to do that. I hope this question is clear.
-Does using a blow switch as described disable the shutter on the camera body? Using the pro mouth switch does not, but one of the above post talked about adding another button to the outside of the helmet so I am not sure.

I'm gonna make a radio shack run and see what I can come up with...

Thanks.

Just get yourself one of these, I'm sure they'll have something at Radio Shack too. You could also just buy the male and female jacks and wire your own extension. Radio Shack even carries a 90 degree (right angle) jack that works well in some situations where you can't have that thing sticking straight out from the camera body. Those 2.5 mm jacks are actually pretty rugged. In my experience the connectors that don't take the abuse are the bastardized proprietary connectors on cameras that don't use the standard 2.5 mm audio jack.

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

I would like to preserve the port on my camera for as long as possible and constantly inserting and removing the jack is not the best way to do that. I hope this question is clear.
-Does using a blow switch as described disable the shutter on the camera body... ...one of the above post talked about adding another button to the outside of the helmet

Good idea to keep the wear on the cheap wiring adapter rather than the camera body switch. I use just such an extension for both my SLR, and the LANC port on my video camera so I don't have to keep plugging an unplugging my Hypeye Mini (see attached).

No. Using a blow switch does not disable the shutter release on the camera. I had mentioned earlier using an additional switch on the helmet just to put it in a more convenient location for holding the helmet assembly during landing shots while still being able to trigger the shutter.

[Quincy 0]

Tongue Switches by Conceptus ... Don't know which one you tried, but try model L1334 on Paragear.

L1334 Tongue Switch at Paragear

Conceptus Home Page

Have used them extensively for 3 years and love 'em. Have had some contact with the company and they have fantastic customer service.

Well worth your time to take a look.

Quincy

[VTmotoMike08 0]

OK, so after a trip to radio shack...

I got a micro roller switch like [ChangoLanzao] suggested. I really like the tactile feel of this switch, it offers a really positive feel and it easy to press. However, something is reversed. It takes pics when the switch is not depressed and stops when I press it. I reversed the wires and it stops working altogether. No combination of wire connections has made it work correctly. Maybe there is different kinds of these and I just need a different one. Any comments?

Also, its gonna be hard to make my own switch that is as durable as I would like. Either way, it only costs me $9 in parts and was kinda fun to do. I would go that route if I could work out both of the above.

Next try will be a blow switch from paragear. Radio shack didn't have 90 degree elbow 2.5mm jacks but I can try another local store or order online. Hopefully the soldering between jack and switch is easy to do and clearly labeled, I will have to wait and see when I get it.

PharmerPhil, that is a really nice setup that you have with the 90 degree jack on the flat top helmet. I am saving some cash and I plan to make a FTP setup over the winter and I will keep that in mind.

[pilotdave 0]

I've never tried to wire anything up like that so i dont know, but is it possible you bought a normally closed switch instead of a normally open switch?

Dave

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

Radio shack didn't have 90 degree elbow 2.5mm jacks but I can try another local store or order online.

I have bought them at RS before, but they always seem to be in limited supply. You could try Mouser. However, I find that the plugs you can solder yourself are larger than the pre-molded ones. It may be easier and lower profile to simply buy a non-Canon remote shutter release and cut the plug and wire off of it.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

OK, so after a trip to radio shack...

I got a micro roller switch like [ChangoLanzao] suggested. I really like the tactile feel of this switch, it offers a really positive feel and it easy to press. However, something is reversed. It takes pics when the switch is not depressed and stops when I press it. I reversed the wires and it stops working altogether. No combination of wire connections has made it work correctly. Maybe there is different kinds of these and I just need a different one. Any comments?

Also, its gonna be hard to make my own switch that is as durable as I would like. Either way, it only costs me $9 in parts and was kinda fun to do. I would go that route if I could work out both of the above.

Next try will be a blow switch from paragear. Radio shack didn't have 90 degree elbow 2.5mm jacks but I can try another local store or order online. Hopefully the soldering between jack and switch is easy to do and clearly labeled, I will have to wait and see when I get it.

PharmerPhil, that is a really nice setup that you have with the 90 degree jack on the flat top helmet. I am saving some cash and I plan to make a FTP setup over the winter and I will keep that in mind.

The switch should be one of these, with the three contacts. You need to use the center contact (normally open) and the one on the left (common). The one all the way to the right is normally closed.

CLICKY for PIC

ETA: Note the tiny clearance between the NO and the NC contacts inside the switch. If saliva gets in there, the switch will short, so make sure and put a good condom on it for field use

[docjohn 0]

Quote

I really don’t want a hand switch that I have to run thru my jump suit, but if that is the only good option then I might do it.

Any reason why? I use a hand switch and love it. No custom rigging. Bought it off the shelf for $30. Have used it with no problem. I have a full face helmet so a mouth switch isn't a good option for me.

My $ 0.02

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[cratermaker 0]

Give bomb420 a shout. He has some prototypes of a couple of new mouthswitches. He is also checking out a focus selector switch. Maybe this will help.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Quote

Quote

I really don’t want a hand switch that I have to run thru my jump suit, but if that is the only good option then I might do it.

Any reason why? I use a hand switch and love it. No custom rigging. Bought it off the shelf for $30. Have used it with no problem. I have a full face helmet so a mouth switch isn't a good option for me.

My $ 0.02

I was thinking about this and it seems I would still have to wire an extension- I don't want loose wire in free fall so it seems I would have to run a wire from my camera, into the helmet, out the back of the helmet out the bottom between the padding and the shell, then have a jack/ plug to connect to the jumpsuit wire, which runs out the left sleeve. The hassle of plugging the helmet wire into the jumpsuit wire is what swayed me away from this idea.

But maybe I'm making this too hard. I would be interested in hearing more detail about how you run the wire if you would like to share. Thanks.

[PharmerPhil 0]

Quote

The hassle of plugging the helmet wire into the jumpsuit wire is what swayed me away from this idea.

FWIW,...

I have used a hand switch on occasion when running two still cameras. It works well, but it is a hassle in my opinion. Definitely more difficult than simply putting a helmet on and sticking something in your mouth. Plus the fact that my hands have other things to do in a skydive, whereas my mouth doesn't have anything else to do (other than breathing that is). But I guess it is all what you are used to, or what you get used to.

Hell. For many people, the idea of getting all the gear on, jumping out of plane, flying to where you want to be, composing a shot, and managing cameras on top of it all is a bit much to handle. If you can do all that, maybe simply plugging in another set of wires on your jumpsuit isn't too much of a thing.

[bigorangemd 0]

I have a toggle switch that my DZO installed onto the back of my helmet. When the tandem master gets in the door I reach up and switch it on and the camera starts taking pics. When I open I reach up and switch it off. Works great and I have about 120 pics when I'm done. Catch some unexpected and great shots that way.

[jimmytavino 16]

gosh...
i thought that "photography" consisted of anticipating a shot, composing the frame, focusing and THEN shutter activation...

your approach seems more like the "machine gun scattershot technique"
( no offense intended )

it must simply be, a byproduct of the digital SLR 'revolution'

.. how revolting.....

so then you spend lots of time afterwards ,,,deleting????

Ps.. i think i would be very careful about having ANY DZO's i KNOW,,, screwing with MY camera helmet....

( yours sounds like a guy who is simply trying to sell picture cds,,, on top of the video..)

let's be careful out there..

As regards a hand pendant, I had some good luck 5 years ago with a Sony DSC V1 digi-still...
that camera accepted a wired pendant which could turn the camera on and off
( and then lit an indicator light , to tell me that it was ON )
it could zoom the lens, or back off the zoom, and it could fire the shutter...
I DID add a plastic 'molex connector' which would let me leave the pendant In the sleeve of my jumpsuit,, ( thanx Bev, for adding that fabric channel inside my arm ) the other end of the wire stayed connected to the camera, and i'd mate up the molex connector which was located somewhere around my chest, when stuffed into my jumpsuit..
in this way i didn't have to feed the switch into the sleeve,,, EVERY time, and in the rare event that i HAD to shed the helmet,, i could break it away, without having it remain tethered to my arm...
it worked just fine,, but WAS kind of a pain. I now use a pro mouth switch ( from Sonics shop ) and a laszlo adapter ( from Laszlo ), into my Nikon still... the click on the pro switch is Positive, is obvious, and is durable.. it's tongue activated, never cared for any bite switches, and works really well.



jmy
A 3914
D 12122
nscr 1817