Rebel XTi (400D) - Automatic Flash Problem

[velvetjo 0]

Got a Canon Rebel XTi recently, and I've been playing with various settings to see what I like for freefall photography. I'm leaning toward the Tv mode with tweaks for various lighting conditions, but I ran into something interesting (and not in the good sense) whille playing with the auto modes to see what they can do.

Here's the problem: in both Sports and Full Auto modes, the on-board flash occasionally tries to pop up and the camera goes into an error mode because I have it taped down to avoid ripping it off accidentally. This happened twice while I was test shooting near the back of a Casa just before the door opened, so there wasn't much time to figure it out. I eventually reset the camera (on the ground) by removing and reinserting the battery, and on the second jump figured out that cycling the on/off switch while the error message was still on the LCD worked too.

I'm looking for a way to avoid this error completely, so I researched the manual to see how to turn off the flash in Sports mode, the only auto mode I'll probably ever use in freefall. I couldn't find a way to do this - does anyone know if it is possible?

Also, from what I've seen in the Tv mode menus, the on-board flash is off unless set to on in the white balance menu. This seems like it avoids the error completely, which is yet another reason to use Tv over Sports mode. Can any of you folks with more SLR experience verify this?

Thanks,

Lance

[piisfish 135]

don't know about the 400D/XTi but on the 350D/XT sport mode automatically shuts off the flash

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[freefalle 0]

The reason the flash is comming up in the modes you describe is because the camera is determining the need for added light so it is activating the flash. In order to prevent this and still get the shot you want you are going to have to use the TV mode or AV mode and the proper setting, I usually use the TV mode and set the camera to a slower speed, the problem with that is that it may not be enough and your photos may come out blurry or not come out at all. My recommendation is to play more with your TV setting and wind out what is going to work for you. Your other option is to get an external flash and add that to the mix and go from there. feel free to drop me a PM maybe I can help you more.

[Laszloimage 0]

At auto settings if the light is low the pop-up flash most likely will try to come up. That's what happened inside the Casa, you tried to take a shot before the exit, but there wasn't too much light inside.
PLEASE READ THE MANUAL!
Try not to use auto settings. When the camera is in auto mode then it is controling it self (you had the result already) instead of you. There's a big difference when you're in control and you take the photo. Please read about photography, learn the basics (light, apeture, shutter speed, and etc...). Whitout that the best and most expensive camera will "trick" you as well.
In the WB balance setting the "lighting symbol" has nothing to do with this issue. That is to set color temperature. If you take a picture of something where the dominant light is the flash then that's the recommended white balence setting to get accurate colors. Most flashes and Canon's pre set Flash WB temperature is around 7000Kelvin. On some more soficticated flashes the color temperature is adjustable.
...back to the original question. If you're using one of the creative field settings (Tv, Av, or M) the pop up flash shouldn't be a problem. I have the XT vs. XTi though.
And remember every light condition and different skydive requires a different setting. There's no such a thing which works all the time. So please take your time and read some stuff about basic photgraphy (internet, book store, and etc.) so you can understend what setting will be the best at the time.
The photographer takes the photo not the camera!
-Laszlo-

[velvetjo 0]

I'm on the same page as you guys, and I actually prefer the Tv setting too. On the other hand, if I'm rushed and conditions are changing, Sports mode seems like a decent alternative to guessing wrong about Tv settings and getting all crappy shots instead of a few that the Sports mode couldn't handle well. Believe it or not, I did read the manual. I'm just experimenting with everything that this camera can do - which is a good thing, right?

I get that the flash is trying to compensate for low light conditions, and that I can avoid the error by not test-shooting in darker places (like the back of the Casa). I'm just looking to avoid the error problem in case I'm not smart enough to remember.

My questions are really more about operating this particular camera than learning technique. I do appreciate the advice, though. I'm still learning a lot about photography. Unfortunately, the manual doesn't seem to cover this particular question.

Piisfish, I'll have to check into the Sports mode again to see if it defaults to flash off on the XTi/400D. I might have had the camera in another mode without realizing it.

So, does anyone know how to definitively turn off the on-board flash?

Lance

[AndyMan 7]

I don't think there's any need to tape down the flash.

I use my built in flash in marginal light pretty often. It can be a life saver at dusk.

The only downside to allowing the flash to pop up is that it'll slow your shutter speed to a max of 200, which may result in a bit of blur around the edges of flapping jumpsuits.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[velocityphoto 0]

Speaking of white balance : What white balance setting would you use on a nice clear blue sky day while using fill flash full manual f-13 and shutter 200 iso 100 flash set to 1/8 power ?
I have been using the sunny white balance and then if it gets a little cloudy i switch to the cloudy mode . Should i be using the flash mode for white balance ?
Lonnie

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[Laszloimage 0]

Lonnie,
It's hard to say, bacause it depend by the lens, the quality of the light, the picture is taken toward or away from the sky, and etc.
And also depends by your taste, whatever appirence you like better.
Personally a daylight WB seems to me a bit too blue.
If its too red at flash WB I would try the cloudy one.
If you're shooting in RAW you can chage it easily.
If you're using Canon's Digital Photo Professional to process and convert RAW files you can select "Color Temp" where you can change color temp in 100Kelvin steps. Sometimes the best way is to create a few different JPEG's or TIFF's and slecet the one you like the best.
Normally the one has the accurate color of your photo subject.
Remember you have two different light sources, the Sun and your flash. So the sky probably won't be that blue (with the described exposure setting it will be nice and rich anyway...) if yo start pushing the WB towards 6-7000K but your subject's color will be more accurate.
That's the advantage of the RAW, you just can't screw up this part of the photo.
-Laszlo-

[lister55 0]

I have not had the sports mode pop up the flash on me?? I use a mix of settings between the TV and the sports mode. Sport mode has worked very well for me. Especially in situations where the sun is slightly obscured at certain parts of the skydive. I will have to go back through the manual, but it was my undrerstanding that sport mode does not activate the flash.

[chrismgtis 0]

You need to take any photos in the aircraft with the camera not attached to the helmet.

Resist the urge to take a shot when the helmet is on with the camera attached and wait till your head is at least outside of the door where the lens can get enough light.

Once the camera is attached to the helmet, don't take any photos until you are outside. At that point you should almost always have more than enough light to prevent the flash from opening.

If the flash attempts to pop up and does not open correctly, you will have to turn the camera off and back on to fix it.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[pilotdave 0]

The flash WILL NOT pop up in sports mode (unless maybe there's an internal failure?). You can't shoot at a high enough frame rate with the flash on, so they disable it in that mode. Sports mode is meant for outdoor use in sufficient light. What's that have to do with the camera being connected to the helmet anyway?

If the flash pops up, you were probably in the wrong mode. It will pop up in the full auto mode, portrait mode, and a couple of the other "creative" modes. I've changed modes by accident when turning the camera on when it's on my head. Really easy to turn that dial when sliding the on/off switch, especially with gloves on. I try to always turn it on before putting on my helmet.

In-plane shots are one of the reasons I like the sports mode. If the camera is off my head, I'll usually just switch to full auto to take a quick pic with flash. But once the camera is on my head, sports mode can adjust my shutter speed low enough to get pictures. When in Tv mode, I almost always have it set far too fast to get decent shots inside the plane.

Dave

[The111 0]

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What's that have to do with the camera being connected to the helmet anyway?

Haha, I was wondering about that too...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Fast 0]

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What's that have to do with the camera being connected to the helmet anyway?

Haha, I was wondering about that too...

Right?

Anyways, I don't really like the sports mode. I shoot in Tv and pick my own settings. I turn the flash on by hand when I am in the plane. I don't see any good reason to tape the flash down. I have never had mine come open in hundreds of jumps. I have however, had the need to turn it on in freefall when a tandem master wasn't cooperating and had thier back to the sun.

If you are doing something where you are worried about ripping the flash off your camera (it only sticks up like 3/4") then you are clearly way too close and jammed in anyways. I would be more worried about ripping the whole camera off my head.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[The111 0]

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If you are doing something where you are worried about ripping the flash off your camera (it only sticks up like 3/4") then you are clearly way too close and jammed in anyways. I would be more worried about ripping the whole camera off my head.

I've never considered popping my flash open in freefall, not because I'm worried about hitting something, but because I'm worried the wind would tear it off. Especially with the forward speed of a wingsuit... but even with general freefall I wouldn't want that thing flapping around open.

And yes, I shoot TV too. Full manual is nice for ground shots, but in the air if I want to get more than one angle in the same jump (lighting changes), TV can save my ass by adjusting my settings on the fly, to values which are the same as I would have chosen on full manual.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Fast 0]

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Quote

If you are doing something where you are worried about ripping the flash off your camera (it only sticks up like 3/4") then you are clearly way too close and jammed in anyways. I would be more worried about ripping the whole camera off my head.

I've never considered popping my flash open in freefall, not because I'm worried about hitting something, but because I'm worried the wind would tear it off. Especially with the forward speed of a wingsuit... but even with general freefall I wouldn't want that thing flapping around open.

And yes, I shoot TV too. Full manual is nice for ground shots, but in the air if I want to get more than one angle in the same jump (lighting changes), TV can save my ass by adjusting my settings on the fly, to values which are the same as I would have chosen on full manual.

In my experience, it wont rip it off. Going head down will close it though, so if you plan to do that you should tape it open.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka