NAB?

[DSE 3]

For me, digital storage has always been the norm. Yes, I've always got my tapes to turn to, but honestly never have once done it (since the advent of digital) in many years of production, both for HDCAM or DV. Even Beta SX media is stored on drives here, we find it cheaper to archive to HDD.
But that's our workflow, so YMMV.

Solid state is absolutely as trustworthy as tape, IMO. The codecs used today are small, an while challenging, they look very good. AVCHD at a bitrate of 12Mbps is very close to HDV at 25Mbps in visual quality, but it's a bitch to edit. That'll change, as I'd mentioned earlier.
Here's my take...if you need a cam right this second, either buy HDV now, or buy a junker 109 to get you through the next year. By then, we'll have at least 8, and maybe 12 AVCHD camcorders on the market, plus every NLE will support AVCHD.
I like my archives in HD, so that's my tool of choice. Again YMMV.

[Fast 0]

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For me, digital storage has always been the norm. Yes, I've always got my tapes to turn to, but honestly never have once done it (since the advent of digital) in many years of production, both for HDCAM or DV. Even Beta SX media is stored on drives here, we find it cheaper to archive to HDD.
But that's our workflow, so YMMV.

Solid state is absolutely as trustworthy as tape, IMO. The codecs used today are small, an while challenging, they look very good. AVCHD at a bitrate of 12Mbps is very close to HDV at 25Mbps in visual quality, but it's a bitch to edit. That'll change, as I'd mentioned earlier.
Here's my take...if you need a cam right this second, either buy HDV now, or buy a junker 109 to get you through the next year. By then, we'll have at least 8, and maybe 12 AVCHD camcorders on the market, plus every NLE will support AVCHD.
I like my archives in HD, so that's my tool of choice. Again YMMV.

I could care less what we are storing the data too as long as it isn't hard drive or dvd. What I am wondering is if you think we will start to see solid state high-def cameras that are suited to side mounting. (i.e. small) I mean, I could go out and buy an HC5 right now but I don't want to side mount a camera that big.

Or do you think they are going to keep on making things in about that size/format, even with the space saving solid state media?

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[The111 0]

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I could care less what we are storing the data too as long as it isn't hard drive or dvd.

By "storing the data" are you referring to the recording process, or archival data? Because HDD and DVD are great for archives.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Fast 0]

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I could care less what we are storing the data too as long as it isn't hard drive or dvd.

By "storing the data" are you referring to the recording process, or archival data? Because HDD and DVD are great for archives.

Sorry, I should have said "recording the data to" My archival process includes DVD-Rs.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[The111 0]

Ok. And I agree it would be nice to see "narrow" cams again with the advent of solid state... even though I currently have no need for a side-mount setup, the option would be nice.

But really, it wasn't the DV format that made "narrow" cams go away, since the old narrow cams were DV. Hopefully the new cameras are less "square" than the HC HDV series.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Laszloimage 0]

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Student: "Hey cameraflyer! I messed up my DVD you gave me of my first skydive 2 months ago. Can you burn me a new one?"

…yes it would be a nice costumer service to replace those videos. But why should be that our responsibility? If you lose your cell phone because you were so drunk a night before will your provider replace it? Hell no, you’ll need to buy a new one.
I always encourage them to make a copy or two of their videos (DVDs) just in case.
Sorry it was abit off the subject
-Laszlo-

[Laszloimage 0]

Well, solid state HD recording is existing for awhile now. But it's kinda too big for side mount.
It's OK for top mount though
[/url]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1881&A=details&Q=&sku=381410&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation[url]
A mini DV tape is approx 12GB of data, so an 8GB card should be OK for 40min of HDV (the format of the HC5 or HC7)
DSE knows it better but I'm pretty sure it'll happen sooner or later.
When BluRay gets lot cheaper (and if it stays on the market) could be a descent option to store data since it has 50GB of space.
-Laszlo-

[ltdiver 3]

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Hell no, you’ll need to buy a new one.

Believe me, they pay (again) for it. Another burning is not for free.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[pope 0]

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I could go out and buy an HC5 right now but I don't want to side mount a camera that big.

Yikes! That's not a very big camera at all--even to side mount.

[USPA 0]

Mind the difference between HDV and DVCPRO (the latter this cam).

A little more affordable are the AVCHD cams of panasonic, which are about € 1000,- .

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[pope 0]

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When BluRay gets lot cheaper (and if it stays on the market) could be a descent option to store data since it has 50GB of space.

I've heard that they've already tested 200GB on Blu-Ray, while HDDVD is already maxed out. BluRay is the way!
now it's just a waiting game for those prices to plummet.

DSE? you were at NAB, care to comment??

pope

[Laszloimage 0]

You see...?
that's why I said "if it stays on the market"
This is just crazy. They never fully develop a certain system and they come out with something even newer. Last week luckily I had to shoot video for TV (paid a bit more than an avarage TM vid.) and they wanted 1080i format (they din't care HDV or another format as long as it was 1080 res). But I still not gonna buy an HD camera because as DSE posted now they coming out something even newer. If I had a chance to make real money with my gear (which means outside of skydiving) I wouldn't be worried if I had to buy new cameras within a year or two since I would make that $ back.
To keep up with is extremly fast technological chenges and working at the DZ isn't easy...
-Laszlo-

[DSE 3]

I've posted several times on the HDDVD and BD differences, BD has been tested higher than 200GB, while HDDVD has (so far) max of 50GB in not-yet-available triple layer. BD is winning the battle thus far, but it's not over yet.
Sony Vegas announced this morning, the release of a free update on May 1, for AVCHD support. I can't say more, but can say I'm pleased.
AVCHD isn't HDV, but may eventually become as good as bitrates climb to the 18Mbps point. HDV is still the best option, and will be for a while, in an affordable range. XDCAM EX will be the next step for pros, but it's also gonna be around 9K.

[pope 0]

yo Spot;
Did you check out the RED camera display? WHat are your thoughts on it? Did they have a working one? Is it still at $17.5? What's the skinny?
cheers!
pope

[DSE 3]

Yes, thanks to Brooke/MB38, I got into the RED booth more than once. Impressive footage, but a bit misleading to suggest we were seeing actual 4K footage on the small screen they had. VERY impessive demo.
RED still is an unknown quantity, IMO. It's popular, but also has the "real" shooters in the industry asking questions that are well-deserved.
After seeing RED at Sundance Film Fest, seeing it at a few other locations, and seeing the latest incarnation at NAB, my team and I have decided to purchase the SI camera instead. More standardized, more "real" and ready to go in the next 30 days.
RED is impressive, but untried. SI has been here for a long time, as has PS Teknic, and the guys at CineForm (codec provider) are old friends. CineForm 2K codec is already supported in many apps, and can be DPX straight to every app out there, where REDCODE isn't at all supported by any but Final Cut.
I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing RED. Been in the industry a LONG time, and familiar with fads. RED may or may not be a fad. I'm not interested in finding out the hard way as I have so many times in the past.

[MB38 0]

We (RED) did have working cameras on display, as well as 4K footage being projected in our theater by a Sony 4K projector. The screen was 16'x9', so each linear inch of screen size was represented by 21.3 pixels. You had to walk up to the screen and hunt for pixels...

We're expecting to have ~3,000 cameras shipped by December, with the first cameras shipping in roughly 5-6 weeks time. Things change very rapidly at RED. Specifications are subject to change... count on it. The price is still firm at $17,500 for the body.

The footage we showed in the theater was a WWI period film directed by Peter Jackson. The footage was shot using "Boris" and "Natasha," two alpha cameras. They, along with Frankie [the original prototype] were on display at the booth. There were also several working beta cameras on display with functioning LCDs, EVFs, RED DRIVEs, support equipment, etc.

Greg Gasson came by the booth on Thursday - he and I had a chance to discuss the viability of the RED ONE as a freefall camera. For those of you that don't know, Greg shot footage with Arri's 235 for NAB. I've heard great things about the footage...

The RED ONE body is currently 9lbs in prototype form, though RED is aiming for 8lbs by shipping. A prime or lightweight zoom should clock in from 2-3lbs. The camera requires an external power source, though a small enough battery could be designed and built to fit inside of a FTP.

There are several freefall-friendly storage options. One is the RED RAM, an external 64GB flash drive that allows for approximately 30-40 minutes of 4K recording. It's large. You could fit it onto a helmet, but an onboard option would be superior.

There are three onboard recording options: CF, EX34 and 1.8" SATA. Whichever media interface you choose, you simply mount it on the camera and insert your media. There is no limitation on the kind of media you choose - RED doesn't lock you into a proprietary format - you just have to get media that's fast enough to support ~28MB/s data rates. Such media is difficult to find these days, but things change rapidly. When the flash industry is ready, the onboard media interfaces will be ready.

So the minimal package: ~8lb body, ~2lb lens, ~1lb battery, onboard storage. As far as skydiving is concerned, it's a speciality camera.

That said, RED does have a professional pocket camera in development. Professional, not prosumer. No more details at this time, but stay tuned...

It was good to meet you at NAB, Spot. Glad you liked the footage...

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[The111 0]

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The footage we showed in the theater was a WWI period film directed by Peter Jackson.

Off-topic, but what film are you referring to? The closest I could find was this, which is neither WWI nor directed by Peter Jackson (it's WWII produced by PJ).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[MB38 0]

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The footage we showed in the theater was a WWI period film directed by Peter Jackson.

Off-topic, but what film are you referring to? The closest I could find was this, which is neither WWI nor directed by Peter Jackson (it's WWII produced by PJ).

It was a WWI short that he directed specifically for our camera. The film is called "Crossing the Line". It was shot in 2 days using the alpha cameras described above. It is not currently available to download online, though stills are available [url=http://www.red.com/gallery-still.shtml]here[/url]. It's the worst RED footage you'll ever see... and it's awesome.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[DSE 3]

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It's the worst RED footage you'll ever see... and it's awesome.

Trust me, that's not so at all. You'll see MUCH worse RED footage coming from the shooters that can afford the cam and don't know how to use it.
I blame Panasonic's DVX100 for allowing bad camera ops to have access to 24p, therefore giving 24p a bad name.

That said, this short is just short of incredulous. In seeing the piece 3 times, there are very few faults to be found with the editing, none to be found in the camera acquisition.
I have reservations as to how the company will play out, and not needing nor seeing the value in 4K right now, chose to not go there. Nice to be able to hire Peter Jackson to show the top-end quality of the camera, but the more important question is "what can everyone else do with it."

[MB38 0]

Heheh... by 'worst' footage ever, I mean it's the worst from a technical/camera side. Creatively, well... that's another story.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.