How would you make a Panasonic DV fly safe?

[Kynan1 0]

With using just a plate mount on the top of a helmet, I'm going to try to use my Panasonic DV camera. Nobody makes a cover for this particular camera, so any ideas on how to cover it?
My best thought is Saran Wrap, with a hint of tape..haha I think it will work.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Getting a camera condom?

[Peej 0]

Woop! Woop! Boooooooooooooooooo woop! FUN POLICE ALERT

I hate to be the one who brings this up but... is your profile up to date? And if so, read this:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1108540;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[ncfitzge 0]

Well it's a good thing that is only a recommendation....

#148 Sonic Scrat
"Have you ever kissed a rabbit between the eyes?" Woodpecker pulling out his pants pockets to the waitress

[Peej 0]

That point has been argued back and forth too many times. I'm not even gonna bite on that one bro, nice try though.

I will leave you with the link to Piisfish's video though...

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...camera%20entanglemen

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[stratostar 5]

Kynan1
Jumps : 84
License: Student
In sport: 1 years

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so any ideas on how to cover it?

Yep, in your camera bag left on the ground.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Fast 0]

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Well it's a good thing that is only a recommendation....

Good attitude to have. Fuck the guys who have died, been maimed, or permenantly disabled and caused that "recommendation" to be put on the books in the first place. Thier lives were meaningless. Everyone these days is better than them guys so thier deaths are not relevant.

The great thing about skydiving is when you think you know so much and are so much better than everyone else that you forget that 99% of the rules we have are because a bunch of people already died finding out that isn't the way to do something.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Kynan1 0]

Another 100 jumps will make me no better in dealing with a camera malfunction. I'm comfortable in the air and realize jumping with a camera is an added danger. I don't plan on trying to film people now, but just to have the camera along for the ride. Someone also told me to wait 200 jumps before even trying to sit fly. All these are just that, opinions. It's good to respect the sport of skydiving and never be a "know it all", but on this one, I think downsizing to a 210 (a common thing) would be far more risky, than jumping a camera, not trying to film a group, etc.
Plus, people progress at different rates and some are more collected in the air than others and in life in general. Point being, you could have some spastic freak with 300 jumps and someone who is calm and together in the air at 50 jumps. It's good to know the recommendations of people who have jumped for a while. I do respect opinions, but make my own choices.
Lastly, it's odd in the sport of skydiving that so much emphasis is put on a jump number vs. skill. Don't get me wrong, I have A LOT of improvement to make in every area, but feel together in the air. It's almost like asking someone how long they have played an instrument for. Some guys can play the drums for 20 years, have no feel, concept of time, or ear for music...but because he's "playing" for 20 years, does that make a great knowledgeable drummer?

[davelepka 4]

Hey, go with the flow. Really. Don't buck the system, or think that you're special. If you're that special, you'll be jumping for the rest of your life, and end up with 20,000 jumps. We'll all see how special you are in time.

Skydivers are generally not easy to corral, or easy to keep out of trouble. On the odd chance that most jumpers agree that something is a bad idea, what you have on your hands is a genuine bad idea.

Besides, if you should end up maimed or in a wheelchair for the rest of your life, how stupid will you feel then?

[Brains 2]

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I'm comfortable in the air and realize jumping with a camera is an added danger. I don't plan on trying to film people now, but just to have the camera along for the ride.

Ok, i'll tell you the truth. It is a conspiracy, there is a union of skydiving vidiots all across the country and we are trying to bring up quality of videos so dzo's will pay us more. If all you young punks keep messing it up, there is going to be hell to pay.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[Kynan1 0]

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Besides, if you should end up maimed or in a wheelchair for the rest of your life, how stupid will you feel then?

I don't think I'd be feeling much of anything then.
Yes, point taken, I think I'll start flying a camera on jump 197, due to my accelerated learning. I do appreciate the comments though and respect the sport and dangers in it.

[Airgump 1]

can i be on your ash dive? no shit, really! i switched DZs and went out to skydive dallas and was told 200 jumps or find another DZ.

tell ya what, blow off all the advice here and i promise i'll video your ash dive for you for free.

[DSE 3]

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Well it's a good thing that is only a recommendation....

200 jumps is the *minimum* recommendation. The tandem manufacturers recommend between 300 and 500 jumps. A couple of tandem instructors at our DZ won't jump with you without at least 400 and them having seen you working them from a distance at first.

[ltdiver 3]

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Well it's a good thing that is only a recommendation....

200 jumps is the *minimum* recommendation. The tandem manufacturers recommend between 300 and 500 jumps. A couple of tandem instructors at our DZ won't jump with you without at least 400 and them having seen you working them from a distance at first.

And some DZ's won't let you fly camera with their tandems unless you have your AFFI.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Kynan1 0]

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can i be on your ash dive? no shit, really! i switched DZs and went out to skydive dallas and was told 200 jumps or find another DZ.

tell ya what, blow off all the advice here and i promise i'll video your ash dive for you for free.

What a foolish comment.
I know, after 100 more jumps, I'll be invincible and have so much more skill to cutaway from a camera mal.
Have a little more common sense, before making outlandish statements. You'd think I said I want to jump a 87 Velocity. If you look at skydiving statistics, swooping is 50x more dangerous than flying a camera with 100 jumps. That's ok though because a ton of people do it? Forget that it causes many unnecessary deaths every year, I can't recall one from someone flying a camera too soon. Reality check bro.
A camera changes nothing about your dive, if you're not trying to film a group or get a perfect shot. It affects your chance of a malfunction and a line getting caught...that's all.

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200 jumps is the *minimum* recommendation. The tandem manufacturers recommend between 300 and 500 jumps. A couple of tandem instructors at our DZ won't jump with you without at least 400 and them having seen you working them from a distance at first.

Agreed on that. There is a difference in filming people, and taking a camera along for the ride. I will not be trying to get "the money shot", just trying to fly relative to people, nothing more for now.

[dragon2 0]

Sigh.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[bofh 0]

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I will not be trying to get "the money shot", just trying to fly relative to people, nothing more for now.

I don't have so many jumps, but I'll share the little wisdom I've picked up along the way.

A good dive has a perfect exit. The chance of that happening is less if you spend time starting the camera instead of focusing 100% on the line-up and exit and taking the time to relax before the lineup.

If you don't care about the camera during freefall, you'll get a loosy video that you don't want to see anyway. So why increase the risk without getting some reward from it?

As with most other things, the most important thing is to know when to say no. I had 50 video jumps, reasoned like you, I'll only leave it on and took my camera with me on my first demo jump (around my 320th jump). Nothing bad happened, except that I didn't spot before I exited and pulled a bit too high (causing the last jumper to have to fly in breaks for almost his whole jump). A bad spot or another airplane under us and it could have been a really bad jump. The video was pure crap too.
I like to think that I had performed better without the camera on that jump. Instead of spending time to check that the camera was on, recording and that the helmet was straight on, I would have had two extra seconds to relax and then remember what's really important.
The old rule of only adding one new thing per jump is as good as ever.

For each jump I do, I become a little more aware of everything around me. I notice I have more and more time to do things and I'm able to add more and more things to my checklists.
It is perhaps not something that one notices every day, but if one looks back one starts to notice that it is now easier to detect other groups, other canopies, airplanes, bad spots etc without losing concentration of whatever one is doing in the current jump.

Figure out what you want to be good at and concentrate on that, you'll learn it a whole lot faster. If you want to be good at filming, stay on the ground with the camera and learn everything you can. Distance, framing, settings, etc is much easier (and cheaper) learned on the ground. The best video-men I know are first of all really good at flying their bodies. They learned that in FS and/or FF, not by strapping a camera on their head. I'm sure you'll learn that a whole lot faster without the camera too.

If you already know all this and you've got skills that are way better than your jump numbers, think like this; if you ignore the recommendations, others that only believe they have your skills will ignore them too. In the long run, that kills our sport.

[jimmytavino 16]

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If you look at skydiving statistics, swooping is 50x more dangerous than flying a camera with 100 jumps.

__________________________________________________


... Maybe that's because almost EVERY DZ in the country won't LET people with 100 jumps fly a camera.....
( with the exception being, those places where the DZOs have pissed off the real TMs and Video people, who have then LEFT,,,, and now the DZO could care less about YOUR safety and so he takes advantage of your 'enthusiasm' and since he is now DESPERATE for a cameraman to do His "precious" tandems,, he says, "sure, you can go"....Bad idea......
...because while the 'vidiot in his own mind" is SURE that he is ready for anything.....
most DZ's DZOs, and S & T A's know BETTER....( and so do most seasoned camera flyers, HERE and elsewhere)... A person who "may have some freefall skills", and who has plenty of "confidence", and is "just bringing the camera along for a ride"... is a person with the wrong attitude.... Cameras DO change things, they can distract you, they can entice you into bad decisions in the air , at pull time, and under canopy, and can expose your head, neck and shoulders to injury.... and that's BEFORE even talking about snag hazards... .....



***
A camera changes nothing about your dive, if you're not trying to film a group or get a perfect shot. It affects your chance of a malfunction and a line getting caught...that's all.
***


.. Listen friend,,,,, if you really believe that a camera "changes nothing",, you are simply demonstrating the very ignorance which people here are trying to warn you about...,,, AND if you are not trying to film a group, (or an individual, or get a perfect shot)..... then why wear the damn thing in the first place.....???
an attitude of " I'll get whatever the camera gets",, is useless and an insult to REAL videographers,,, who strive for safety, professional attitudes, AND getting the perfect shot...
If you are not up for what it takes, ( including experience level and willingness to listen) to accomplish that,,, then you lower the proverbial bar, for everyone.....And as a dedicated and rules following 'aerial videographer' I would take exception to that.

***Agreed on that. There is a difference in filming people, and taking a camera along for the ride. I will not be trying to get "the money shot", just trying to fly relative to people, nothing more for now.***


...If you have to "try " to fly relative to people then that's a problem right there... The "group" would be better off to give YOUR slot to someone who would be IN the dive,,, and not off to the side,, "trying"... Then at separation there you are ,,, IN THE WAY....

....not trying to burst your bubble Kynan1 ,, just trying to give you some perspective on what YOU seem to think is no big deal...
I do NOT trust your judgement, pal,,,not only based on what your profile tells us, but also based on your Choice of the camcorder ( Pana-WHAT??) , that you plan to attach to any old helmet, with a screw and Saran wrap....!!!!! ....
keep skydiving,,,,, improve your freefall skills, and learn to listen to those who have been jumping,,,,since before the time, that you were likely wearing short pants...
jmy
A 3914
D 12122

[stratostar 5]

Well said!
I'm going to take a wild guess here, based on your numbers. My guess is you and I both started to get into playing with cameras in freefall close to the same time frame. (when I started there was no BSR and the 500 rule was broke all the time and I started at 80 jumps) Back then if you were going to fly cameras you had to really put some thought in to it and build a system, sure you could get a sundance protec, but you still had to build it out. There also wasn't many people flying cameras then, but we used to see all kinds of crazy ass ideas built out on helmets, and it was BIG/large old heavy crap. So you and I, have seen how those of us who lived through those days experimenting with that stuff, understand how we got to where we are now in terms of gear alone.

Today, anyone can pick up the phone or keyboard and order up all the new fancy crap their wallet will allow for (no one will check your log or license). Most of it is sleek and light weight and durable now and 10 time better images. So it's way easyer today and any Tom,Dick & Mary can spend some cash for toys and then get online and ask how to put it all together or what should I buy, without really doing a search or reading the FAQ. How many post do we see like this on here, by people with low jumper numbers, it's now a fashion thing in the sport and has been for sometime.

In the last 10 years I have seen so many FNG's get in a hurry to jump cameras, run out a throw money around and disrgard advice given, get the wrong shit for the job and then show up wanting to know how to fix or set up their crap from those they disregarded in the first place. I find it kind of funny, really, and have seen a lot of them come and go over time. They get into the sport hot and heavy and in 4 yrs got all the high dollar matching gear and cameras, spend a ton of money doing it, while making fun of my 1998 Javelin and then poof their gone and are selling all their fancy stuff, all the while thinking they were hotshit in the sky and the next Norm Kent.

Well I would love stay all day and chat, but I got to go re-saran wrap all my cameras now after changing tapes.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[ltdiver 3]

Excuse me. I was not responding to you with the quoted comments you replied back to me with.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Airgump 1]

okay, you want a reality check, go to this link and at least spend the time reading the post that i spent searching for it.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2179797;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
this jumper at the time of his posting of the event had far more camera jumps than i do right now.

i have several mentors in the sport of skydiving that i can go to and discuss various things i plan to try. when i was around the 150 jump number and was chomping at the bit to mount my ole panasonic camera to my helmet, i spent some time getting advice from all of those around me. everyone of them told me to wait for that magic number before even thinking about doing it. when the numbers were finally in the log book, Dave Little and Johnny at Skydive Dallas helped me to mount my first camera to a used helmet with a composite bracket. one of the first things i had happen to me in freefall was having the chin cup pop loose in freefall on exit from a DC-3. at the time i was doing a 2-way R/W jump and instantly had to grab hold of my helmet (with both hands) and try to remain stable. to say the least, it was very interesting at deployment time.

shortly after reading piisfish's post, i bought a new optix illusion from bonehead with a camera box, and used a crap load of gaffer tape to make sure any possible or imaginable snag point was taped up.

i then put a little over 100 jumps on the helmet before i ever mounted the ring sight that crazy larry initially drilled the helmet out for.

as one of my mentors put it, "when you are skydiving you are actually doing a juggling act while you fall. the fist ball you are juggling is the basic skydive. now when you add more pieces to your skydive it equates to adding more balls to those that you are currently trying to keep in motion." (additional weight to your head, less clearance between your helmet and risers during deployment, and an additional snag point that wasn't there before)

the number of balls being juggled increases when you start filming groups instead of using your camera as a "in-flight recorder." now you have added a camera suit, ring sight, and now have to focus your attention on the group your filming. you also stand a fairly good chance of someone jumping the exit count and colliding with you as you step off the aircraft. at first you will loose a good amount of your peripheral vision. never mind you can't be scanning your altimeter on the dive either.

take a new cameraman's advice:
1. wait till you have 200 jumps.
2. in the meantime save your money and buy a good camera helmet with a cut-away system.
3. have an experienced cameraman/woman (mentor) help you set the helmet up.
4. practice your emergency procedures with each new piece of gear you add to the equation.
5. always plan for unexpected events, for they will crop up when you least expect them and you will have little time to react to them.

[Brains 2]

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Excuse me. I was not responding to you with the quoted comments you replied back to me with.

ltdiver

Eh, he did it to me also.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[McDuck 0]

I can't do more than skim through the responses here, because I think it's a waste of time to ask people who don't know you or your skill level these types of questions. The level of "help" here winds up pissing young jumpers off so that they don't pay attention to much after the first "no fucking way, with your numbers" response.

My suggestion is that you ask the people at your DZ, who know you and jump with you and have the knowledge and experience to better guide you, to give you feedback on your skill and comfort. Then get their impressions on your idea to start flying camera now. THOSE are the people to pay attention to. In here? full of people who don't know you or your skill level who want to drive you off with their opinions. When you ask the people who jump where you do, you know you're getting more reasonable responses that take everything about you and your jumping into account.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[Kynan1 0]

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My suggestion is that you ask the people at your DZ, who know you and jump with you and have the knowledge and experience to better guide you, to give you feedback on your skill and comfort. Then get their impressions on your idea to start flying camera now. THOSE are the people to pay attention to. In here? full of people who don't know you or your skill level who want to drive you off with their opinions. When you ask the people who jump where you do, you know you're getting more reasonable responses that take everything about you and your jumping into account.

Great idea. Thanks

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I do NOT trust your judgement, pal,,,not only based on what your profile tells us, but also based on your Choice of the camcorder ( Pana-WHAT??) , that you plan to attach to any old helmet, with a screw and Saran wrap....!!!!! ....

I had the camera before I began skydiving. Using an Optix camera helmet. The reason for the post was an idea on how to wrap the camera to make it fly safe. Any ideas other than Saran Wrap? That was the basic questions, until I got a barrage of off the topic chatter. I've been down the 200 jumps road before on this site, but it's good to know people still feel the same.

[Brains 2]

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The reason for the post was an idea on how to wrap the camera to make it fly safe. Any ideas other than Saran Wrap?

I've seen home made boxes from ABS, lexan, and metal. I have my vid and stills mounted on top without a box around them at all. I just used schumacher mounts for them.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.