jimmytavino 16 #1 April 3, 2006 So i have had this thought for a couple of years now and the recent concerns mentioned by B O D members of USPA,,, regarding first jump retention rates, prompts me to ask here. Are we shooting ourselves in the foot ,, by giving (selling) First jump tandem students, a state of the art "mini-documentary" Video of their T1.....?? Is it crazy to suggest that T1s be "training jumps only" with no need for distraction ( i.e. the vidographer). Do people who might otherwise come Back to make more jumps,, just say the hell with it, and watch their video/dvd over and over and over again???.... No need to go to the Dz no need to PAY more $$$, just settle in,, in front of the big screen and re-experience that rush all over again... I think that If we emphasize that video only becomes available on T2s and beyond....those students, who truely mean it when they land and say, " I wanna do it again" !!!! WILL come back and do it again.... THEN they may be rewarded with a first rate video. IF they never come back again after that,,, then at least we have reaped the benefit of Two Tandem payments, instead of One... Yes.... I have heard ALL the arguments about,, "the videos are great advertising", "The videos prompt peoples friends to come and jump" the camera people will be outta work.... etc etc... Still I think that our retention of first timers is very very poor... and this could be one of the reasons....Camera people would still be busy,,,, because People WOULD come back,, if for nothing ELSE but to GET a video.... We must be certain to show them all a tandem video or two as PART of the FIRST JUMP TRAINING CLASS,,,, but then simply remind them.....YOU can't get one on THIS jump... But you CAN on the next jump.......Blackmail???? maybe,, but Dz have hundreds of thousands invested, Instructors have ten of thousands invested and camera people have a few thousands invested, (NOT counting the skydiving gear !!) The student has NOTHING invested and only needs to lay a charge card on the table to walk AWAY<<<< ( AND they DO walk away, never to be seen again) with some 12 or 15 minute Classic,,,,,, of the most exciting thing they ever did in their lives!!!! WE have a golden goose here,, and are not properly utilizing it... I dunno... I feel like .. we are giving away,, "The whole enchilada' on the one and only day that the person EVER makes the effort to come to the DZ.... The easier it is to get something ( regardless of the cost),, the less important it becomes IMHO.... I really think this is a good way to encourage first time jumpers to return to the dz.... AND to increase the numbers of tandems which a dz does,, each week, month, year. PLUS T2's are easier to deal with than T1s and they may very likely still, bring friends with them when they return.... After all It IS about the skydive....NOT the video... Ok... blast away.... I'm ready for it. jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyKiwi 0 #2 April 3, 2006 Hey Jimmy, Its an interesting idea, but when its comes down to presenting a student with that I think you would lose more video sales all together. The people that I see coming through for second jump wether they got video on their first jump or not are less likely to get it on their seocnd tandem. Every DZ is different! Genrally every first tandem student is here for a roller coster experience and thats what we give them some want the video to go with it so lets give it to them. If they want to come back and do another jump those people will. I dont think taking away first timers videos gives much insentive to make a second jump. If I had my hopes on a video and many do and was told it was not an option, I would be a little pissed. Thats what I think but I have been known to be wrong in the past. Forgive the spelling/ grammerDale two time New Zealand gumboot throwing champ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #3 April 3, 2006 A guy who's content to sit home and re-watch his video instead of making a second jump is not the type of person we should be catering to. Those who are the type to make another jump, who have the time and money to make another jump, will come and make another jump. There are ALOT of tandems who show up with the intention of making one jump, just to do it, and thats it. Even after seeing the DZ in full swing, and making a great jump, either their personality or financial situation will keep them from coming back. Those folks want the 'once in a lifetime' video. Once you get a guy to come back, video becomes a harder sell. Frist off, two tandems is expensive, and if they're looking at AFF, it's even worse. Add in instructors who shoot POV video, and the prospect of getting a video on solo dive, or a gradutaion jump, and you've shot yourself in the foot. Sell the video to everyone you can. And the stills. And T-shirts. And whatever else you can. Most of the time it's a one-shot deal with customers. They come, they jump, and you never see them again. As for the ones who stick around, sooner or later you'll pay them back for selling them everything not bolted down. Mayeb a dub of a fun jump video they were on, or help with a pack job to make a load or whatever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #4 April 3, 2006 Quote A guy who's content to sit home and re-watch his video instead of making a second jump is not the type of person we should be catering to. ________________________________________________ Reply ..... yet we DO cater to them because they get a video and turn into barstool skydivers for the rest of their lives....I feel they may not deserve it..that's all.. *** Those who are the type to make another jump, who have the time and money to make another jump, will come and make another jump. _______________________________________________ Reply ..... trouble is there are far too few of these types. I see the availability of video on Jump #2 as a BIG incentive.. especially if you remember that we declined to even OFFER it on the first jump... *** There are ALOT of tandems who show up with the intention of making one jump, just to do it, and thats it. Even after seeing the DZ in full swing, and making a great jump, either their personality or financial situation will keep them from coming back. Those folks want the 'once in a lifetime' video. ________________________________________________ Reply ...... well according to my idea... They can't have it . !!! hahahaha.. no really.. One of the best aspects of this sport has always been, that time, hard work and perseverence will reap Great rewards....A person who gives one morning or one afternoon of their life and who views this sport as as a lark or the oft mentioned "amusement ride" well they may not have put in enough time, effort thought etc.. to earn such a keepsake as a video.. understand.??? they should at least come back again, you see? Once you get a guy to come back, video becomes a harder sell. Reply....NOT if he/she couldn't get a video the first time... then it's an easier sell and THEN you might really catch that persons attention with a terrific T2 and then they will return,, and those people can become the jumpers of tommorow.. *** Sell the video to everyone you can. And the stills. And T-shirts. And whatever else you can. Most of the time it's a one-shot deal with customers. They come, they jump, and you never see them again. Reply.....True... and that is sad and that hurts retention and then we become slaves to the "customers" Quote........As for the ones who stick around, sooner or later you'll pay them back for selling them everything not bolted down. Mayeb a dub of a fun jump video they were on, or help with a pack job to make a load or whatever. reply....yes perhaps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #5 April 3, 2006 I guess if you want to 'screen' customers for can skydive and who can't, then by all means, go ahead. Skydiving isn't for evryone (which I thank god for). People want to jump for different reasons. I'm not here to judge those reasons, I'm here to make sure that they get a chance to make a jump in a fun and safe enviornment. What they want to do after that is up to them. Either way, if they want to get a video, then I'd say shoot the video. I can see what you're saying, but offering the propect of a paying for video as a ploy to get a second jump out of some one seems a little far fetched. I can see a coffee shop offering a puch card for a free cup after 10 cups. Alot of people drink alot of coffee everyday. They will all drink ten cups within the next week or two. The free cup will pay off. We're talking about jumping out of an airplane more than once. To the general public, the cost, as well as the act itself is a big deal. There are people who will jump once. People who will jump twice, and people who will make thousands. No amount of video (or lack off) is going to change that. QuoteSell the video to everyone you can. And the stills. And T-shirts. And whatever else you can. Most of the time it's a one-shot deal with customers. They come, they jump, and you never see them again. Reply.....True... and that is sad and that hurts retention and then we become slaves to the "customers" I'm not sure how that hurts retention. It's not an uncomfortable high-pressure sales situation. You tell them about video, they make a choice. Stills are available. T-shirts hang on the wall and sell themselves. Again, being able to buy a T-shirt, and making a second jump are not relates. As fas as being a 'slave' to the customer, you could say it that way, if you wanted to put a negative spin on it. How about some customer service, or customer appriciation? How do you spin that? The tandems and students are the ones who keep the Otter flying, and keeping the Otter flying is an imortant part of my life. They're the ones who show up and spend several hundreed dollars to make one jump. Sometimes I even get a cut of that, but even if I was a fun jumper and didn't work at the DZ, the tandems and students still foot the bill for the plane and DZ I use every weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pope 0 #6 April 3, 2006 QuoteAre we shooting ourselves in the foot ,, by giving (selling) First jump tandem students, a state of the art "mini-documentary" Video of their T1? As a professional videographer, my point of view is more like we're shooting ourselves in the foot by NOT giving people a T1 video. Let's be honest...most Tandems don't/won't ever want to do this again, and want to show their peeps that they "did it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #7 April 4, 2006 I think a better way to bring people back would be to get them more involved...make every tandem a 'working tandem', or at least the possibility of one. That would engage them more in that initial jump, and give them the empowerment of "having done it themselves". JMO, of course...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #8 April 4, 2006 At my DZ, every tandem is offered the chance to pull the drouge release. They have altimeters, and the TM's reveiw the dive flow in the plane, and discuss canopy control during the canopy ride. After the jump, they have the chance to purchase a second jump at a greatly reduced rate, without having to make the jump that day. I don't think the marketing effort is whats keeping the return business down. It's the product. It's easy for us, as skydivers, to overlook it, but making a jump is a huge deal for the average person. Not something to take lightly, or something they could even consdier doing again. On top of that is the cost factor, which for a new jumper is pretty significant. Look around the DZ. See what a mix of people there are? Thats because the formula for making a skydiver is such a random one. Take a guy who has the mental component of being a skydiver, now you have to get him to a DZ, at the right timein his life, when he has the time and money to put towards taking up a new venture. This why you see people of all ages and backrounds at the DZ. This is also why it's tough to market skydiving. Who do you target? What age group? What economic group? I'm not saying to give up improving the marketing effort, I'm just saying be sure to keep in perspective what you're selling, and the limitations is creates. Edit: A quick example is the college student. We gat a shitload fo them to do tandems. Many of them would liek to do AFF, but can't afford it. Alot of them want video, but can't swing the cost. Of the ones who do get video, you see some heads up guys, really having fun, and when they land you can see that they could do it. They could follow through, and make a good skydiver, but guess what, no money. End of story. On the flip side, we all know the middle age guy who shows up one day to jump, does OK to fair, and dives in head first. Pays for the program in full, buys a helmet and alti, and is already looking at gear. Two weeks later, after the 8th try at AFF lv 4, the idea of taking up golf comes up in the debrief. As it turns out he stopped golfing to skydive, and his clubs are in the trunk. This guy had the time and money, but not the ability. It's a tough combination to nail down. When it's going to happen, it'll happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #9 April 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteAre we shooting ourselves in the foot ,, by giving (selling) First jump tandem students, a state of the art "mini-documentary" Video of their T1? As a professional videographer, my point of view is more like we're shooting ourselves in the foot by NOT giving people a T1 video. Let's be honest...most Tandems don't/won't ever want to do this again, and want to show their peeps that they "did it." My thoughts exactly. 80 year grannies skydiving (tandem) on TV has led to many people believing there is nothing to skydiving. They want to try it. I'd say of the 500+ tandems we did last year 90% knew before they ever set foot in the DZ it was going to be a one shot thing. 80% of the remaining 50+ thought it'd be cool, but other things like finances kept them from doing more. 80% of the 5-10 that did another tandem or took AFF never came back. I seriously doubt the video made any difference in their decision. They either got the bug and made the $ work or not. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #10 April 4, 2006 thanks to all, for the realistic and straightforward feedback..... I pretty much expected most of the points which were made... The One Jump tandem is a fickle customer and so it does seem sensible to do the best we can for them, the one time they visit a dz...and if that includes making them the star of the show,,, then OK... I only wished that others might agree with me,, that maybe those first timers need to give US a little more ( like the willingness to make TWO jumps) before we treat them like a movie star. Maybe my position is based on having come from a time when video wasn't even a consideration. Hell I had over 1,000 jumps before I ever had even a snapshot of myself in freefalland THAT was taken by a fellow jumper using a hand held, throw-away camera. hahahahaha So maybe I see a video and a cd of 40 still shots as special, and and not to be taken for granted, by a first timer. It's the cherry on the Ice cream sundae, and decades ago,, we were WELL satisfied with a simple small taste of the ice cream.....that's all... jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #11 April 4, 2006 Agreed! Let's fleece the first-timers to pay for our turbine addiction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #12 April 4, 2006 QuoteLet's fleece the first-timers to pay for our turbine addiction. Why does everyone restate what I say in the most negative possible? Anyway, thats the reality of a DZ these days. The students and tandems make up the bulk of the profit for the business. As far as fleecing them, pricing is set to allow the DZO to operate his business and turn a profit. If he deciedes that operating his business means an Otter, and a rack of new Sigmas, then the pricing will reflect that. Yes, the first timers are footing the bill for the stuff we have. Are they being fleeced? Maybe in the sense that DZO's are charging them so they can have a nice DZ with nice facilities, where if the DZO would scale down his operation and overhead, he could save the student some money (provided he passed the savings along. Not likely in my opinion). Like I said, everyone has to pay in the beginning. The longer you hang out, the more jumps you make, the more you'll get back. I'd say thats fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #13 April 4, 2006 Quotethat maybe those first timers need to give US a little more ( like the willingness to make TWO jumps) before we treat them like a movie star. They're giving us plenty by showing up and paying a large chunk of change to do that one skydive. I have issues with how many dz's market tandems but I honestly believe that if it weren't for tandems most of us would still be jumping 182's instead of turbines and paying far more for the privilege than we are now. They're also paying a high price for the privilege of being the star of their own show, and that high price allows many people to make their living with a camera and a parachute. In addition, if done well that one time tandem passenger's video can be an incredible marketing tool for the dropzone. QuoteSo maybe I see a video and a cd of 40 still shots as special, and and not to be taken for granted, by a first timer. It's the cherry on the Ice cream sundae, and decades ago,, we were WELL satisfied with a simple small taste of the ice cream.....that's all.. I started jumping awhile after you did; I got a still picture of my first static line exit and it's one of my favorite pictures. I didn't see a video camera in freefall until I had 100 jumps. That video and cd of still shots is special. We don't really know how the one-time tandem passenger feels about it; I'd guess that they think it's pretty special too. I've told numerous first time jumpers how much I wish I could have had a video of my first jump - whether you do it once or you go on to do 10,000 skydives, you can only do your first jump once. I'm happy that the option is available for those who can afford it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #14 April 4, 2006 QuoteAgreed! Let's fleece the first-timers to pay for our turbine addiction. ...I'm guessing this statment is made in jest with just a twinge of truth, but fact is.... they aren't getting fleeced..They get a hell of a deal at a real fair price....especially when you include all the camera coverage...and reasonably priced keepsakes like logbooks tee shirts bumper stickers etc... Turbine proliferation really has come as a result of tandem and of the ability to work with many students at a time.. and Turbines are GOOD for everyone!!! When talking about "who supports the plane" however, do NOT discount the importance of the weekend fun jumper... Many people spend thousands and thousands a year on skydives and they are the ones who fill the loads, they are the ones who are there because they love jumping, they are the ones who wait at boarding, for the tandems .. and in the long run contribute consistantly to the revenue stream..Think of just the handful of friends who make 250 or 300 or more jumps a year. Dz's would be hurting in many ways, without them, because unlike staff members ( who DO work and work hard for their $$ or jumps or flight time ) the fun jumper does not draw revenue away from the dz each weekend...and sometimes the fun jumper brings a tandem student !!! skydive softly, skydive often, skydive with friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #15 April 4, 2006 QuoteDz's would be hurting in many ways, without them, I disagree, and I think that the fact that there are many "tandem factory" dz's out there shows it. It's entirely possible for a dzo whose prime goal is profit as opposed to promoting skydiving as a sport to operate without allowing fun jumpers at all. While I don't agree with this approach, I can see it's appeal - allowing fun jumpers adds substantial risk to the operation. The positive thing that we as fun jumpers do for a dz is help to bring those first jumpers back to do more skydives. We do this by showing them that skydiving can be something more than a once-in-a-lifetime experience; it can be something that "regular people" do for fun, just like other regular people ride dirt bikes, snowboard, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
davelepka 4 #5 April 3, 2006 I guess if you want to 'screen' customers for can skydive and who can't, then by all means, go ahead. Skydiving isn't for evryone (which I thank god for). People want to jump for different reasons. I'm not here to judge those reasons, I'm here to make sure that they get a chance to make a jump in a fun and safe enviornment. What they want to do after that is up to them. Either way, if they want to get a video, then I'd say shoot the video. I can see what you're saying, but offering the propect of a paying for video as a ploy to get a second jump out of some one seems a little far fetched. I can see a coffee shop offering a puch card for a free cup after 10 cups. Alot of people drink alot of coffee everyday. They will all drink ten cups within the next week or two. The free cup will pay off. We're talking about jumping out of an airplane more than once. To the general public, the cost, as well as the act itself is a big deal. There are people who will jump once. People who will jump twice, and people who will make thousands. No amount of video (or lack off) is going to change that. QuoteSell the video to everyone you can. And the stills. And T-shirts. And whatever else you can. Most of the time it's a one-shot deal with customers. They come, they jump, and you never see them again. Reply.....True... and that is sad and that hurts retention and then we become slaves to the "customers" I'm not sure how that hurts retention. It's not an uncomfortable high-pressure sales situation. You tell them about video, they make a choice. Stills are available. T-shirts hang on the wall and sell themselves. Again, being able to buy a T-shirt, and making a second jump are not relates. As fas as being a 'slave' to the customer, you could say it that way, if you wanted to put a negative spin on it. How about some customer service, or customer appriciation? How do you spin that? The tandems and students are the ones who keep the Otter flying, and keeping the Otter flying is an imortant part of my life. They're the ones who show up and spend several hundreed dollars to make one jump. Sometimes I even get a cut of that, but even if I was a fun jumper and didn't work at the DZ, the tandems and students still foot the bill for the plane and DZ I use every weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pope 0 #6 April 3, 2006 QuoteAre we shooting ourselves in the foot ,, by giving (selling) First jump tandem students, a state of the art "mini-documentary" Video of their T1? As a professional videographer, my point of view is more like we're shooting ourselves in the foot by NOT giving people a T1 video. Let's be honest...most Tandems don't/won't ever want to do this again, and want to show their peeps that they "did it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #7 April 4, 2006 I think a better way to bring people back would be to get them more involved...make every tandem a 'working tandem', or at least the possibility of one. That would engage them more in that initial jump, and give them the empowerment of "having done it themselves". JMO, of course...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #8 April 4, 2006 At my DZ, every tandem is offered the chance to pull the drouge release. They have altimeters, and the TM's reveiw the dive flow in the plane, and discuss canopy control during the canopy ride. After the jump, they have the chance to purchase a second jump at a greatly reduced rate, without having to make the jump that day. I don't think the marketing effort is whats keeping the return business down. It's the product. It's easy for us, as skydivers, to overlook it, but making a jump is a huge deal for the average person. Not something to take lightly, or something they could even consdier doing again. On top of that is the cost factor, which for a new jumper is pretty significant. Look around the DZ. See what a mix of people there are? Thats because the formula for making a skydiver is such a random one. Take a guy who has the mental component of being a skydiver, now you have to get him to a DZ, at the right timein his life, when he has the time and money to put towards taking up a new venture. This why you see people of all ages and backrounds at the DZ. This is also why it's tough to market skydiving. Who do you target? What age group? What economic group? I'm not saying to give up improving the marketing effort, I'm just saying be sure to keep in perspective what you're selling, and the limitations is creates. Edit: A quick example is the college student. We gat a shitload fo them to do tandems. Many of them would liek to do AFF, but can't afford it. Alot of them want video, but can't swing the cost. Of the ones who do get video, you see some heads up guys, really having fun, and when they land you can see that they could do it. They could follow through, and make a good skydiver, but guess what, no money. End of story. On the flip side, we all know the middle age guy who shows up one day to jump, does OK to fair, and dives in head first. Pays for the program in full, buys a helmet and alti, and is already looking at gear. Two weeks later, after the 8th try at AFF lv 4, the idea of taking up golf comes up in the debrief. As it turns out he stopped golfing to skydive, and his clubs are in the trunk. This guy had the time and money, but not the ability. It's a tough combination to nail down. When it's going to happen, it'll happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #9 April 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteAre we shooting ourselves in the foot ,, by giving (selling) First jump tandem students, a state of the art "mini-documentary" Video of their T1? As a professional videographer, my point of view is more like we're shooting ourselves in the foot by NOT giving people a T1 video. Let's be honest...most Tandems don't/won't ever want to do this again, and want to show their peeps that they "did it." My thoughts exactly. 80 year grannies skydiving (tandem) on TV has led to many people believing there is nothing to skydiving. They want to try it. I'd say of the 500+ tandems we did last year 90% knew before they ever set foot in the DZ it was going to be a one shot thing. 80% of the remaining 50+ thought it'd be cool, but other things like finances kept them from doing more. 80% of the 5-10 that did another tandem or took AFF never came back. I seriously doubt the video made any difference in their decision. They either got the bug and made the $ work or not. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #10 April 4, 2006 thanks to all, for the realistic and straightforward feedback..... I pretty much expected most of the points which were made... The One Jump tandem is a fickle customer and so it does seem sensible to do the best we can for them, the one time they visit a dz...and if that includes making them the star of the show,,, then OK... I only wished that others might agree with me,, that maybe those first timers need to give US a little more ( like the willingness to make TWO jumps) before we treat them like a movie star. Maybe my position is based on having come from a time when video wasn't even a consideration. Hell I had over 1,000 jumps before I ever had even a snapshot of myself in freefalland THAT was taken by a fellow jumper using a hand held, throw-away camera. hahahahaha So maybe I see a video and a cd of 40 still shots as special, and and not to be taken for granted, by a first timer. It's the cherry on the Ice cream sundae, and decades ago,, we were WELL satisfied with a simple small taste of the ice cream.....that's all... jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 April 4, 2006 Agreed! Let's fleece the first-timers to pay for our turbine addiction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #12 April 4, 2006 QuoteLet's fleece the first-timers to pay for our turbine addiction. Why does everyone restate what I say in the most negative possible? Anyway, thats the reality of a DZ these days. The students and tandems make up the bulk of the profit for the business. As far as fleecing them, pricing is set to allow the DZO to operate his business and turn a profit. If he deciedes that operating his business means an Otter, and a rack of new Sigmas, then the pricing will reflect that. Yes, the first timers are footing the bill for the stuff we have. Are they being fleeced? Maybe in the sense that DZO's are charging them so they can have a nice DZ with nice facilities, where if the DZO would scale down his operation and overhead, he could save the student some money (provided he passed the savings along. Not likely in my opinion). Like I said, everyone has to pay in the beginning. The longer you hang out, the more jumps you make, the more you'll get back. I'd say thats fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #13 April 4, 2006 Quotethat maybe those first timers need to give US a little more ( like the willingness to make TWO jumps) before we treat them like a movie star. They're giving us plenty by showing up and paying a large chunk of change to do that one skydive. I have issues with how many dz's market tandems but I honestly believe that if it weren't for tandems most of us would still be jumping 182's instead of turbines and paying far more for the privilege than we are now. They're also paying a high price for the privilege of being the star of their own show, and that high price allows many people to make their living with a camera and a parachute. In addition, if done well that one time tandem passenger's video can be an incredible marketing tool for the dropzone. QuoteSo maybe I see a video and a cd of 40 still shots as special, and and not to be taken for granted, by a first timer. It's the cherry on the Ice cream sundae, and decades ago,, we were WELL satisfied with a simple small taste of the ice cream.....that's all.. I started jumping awhile after you did; I got a still picture of my first static line exit and it's one of my favorite pictures. I didn't see a video camera in freefall until I had 100 jumps. That video and cd of still shots is special. We don't really know how the one-time tandem passenger feels about it; I'd guess that they think it's pretty special too. I've told numerous first time jumpers how much I wish I could have had a video of my first jump - whether you do it once or you go on to do 10,000 skydives, you can only do your first jump once. I'm happy that the option is available for those who can afford it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #14 April 4, 2006 QuoteAgreed! Let's fleece the first-timers to pay for our turbine addiction. ...I'm guessing this statment is made in jest with just a twinge of truth, but fact is.... they aren't getting fleeced..They get a hell of a deal at a real fair price....especially when you include all the camera coverage...and reasonably priced keepsakes like logbooks tee shirts bumper stickers etc... Turbine proliferation really has come as a result of tandem and of the ability to work with many students at a time.. and Turbines are GOOD for everyone!!! When talking about "who supports the plane" however, do NOT discount the importance of the weekend fun jumper... Many people spend thousands and thousands a year on skydives and they are the ones who fill the loads, they are the ones who are there because they love jumping, they are the ones who wait at boarding, for the tandems .. and in the long run contribute consistantly to the revenue stream..Think of just the handful of friends who make 250 or 300 or more jumps a year. Dz's would be hurting in many ways, without them, because unlike staff members ( who DO work and work hard for their $$ or jumps or flight time ) the fun jumper does not draw revenue away from the dz each weekend...and sometimes the fun jumper brings a tandem student !!! skydive softly, skydive often, skydive with friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #15 April 4, 2006 QuoteDz's would be hurting in many ways, without them, I disagree, and I think that the fact that there are many "tandem factory" dz's out there shows it. It's entirely possible for a dzo whose prime goal is profit as opposed to promoting skydiving as a sport to operate without allowing fun jumpers at all. While I don't agree with this approach, I can see it's appeal - allowing fun jumpers adds substantial risk to the operation. The positive thing that we as fun jumpers do for a dz is help to bring those first jumpers back to do more skydives. We do this by showing them that skydiving can be something more than a once-in-a-lifetime experience; it can be something that "regular people" do for fun, just like other regular people ride dirt bikes, snowboard, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skybytch 259 #15 April 4, 2006 QuoteDz's would be hurting in many ways, without them, I disagree, and I think that the fact that there are many "tandem factory" dz's out there shows it. It's entirely possible for a dzo whose prime goal is profit as opposed to promoting skydiving as a sport to operate without allowing fun jumpers at all. While I don't agree with this approach, I can see it's appeal - allowing fun jumpers adds substantial risk to the operation. The positive thing that we as fun jumpers do for a dz is help to bring those first jumpers back to do more skydives. We do this by showing them that skydiving can be something more than a once-in-a-lifetime experience; it can be something that "regular people" do for fun, just like other regular people ride dirt bikes, snowboard, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
