how difficult is it to become a vidiot?

[The111 1]

I realize this question is broad and the answers will vary based on a million things (location being the primary), so bear with me and answer to the best of your ability, if you feel like it.

a) With no camera jumps to my name, roughly how much experience with the camera will I need before I go asking DZO's to let me film their tandem and AFF students? I know people learn at different rates, but what tasks/skills should I focus on? I'm guessing film a lot of belly stuff, offer my services for free to new jumpers and new teams if they're interested.

b) What equipment will I need? I'm leaning toward FF2 helmet, HC42 vid, Digital Rebel still, and some sort of camera suit I'd imagine (which I'd also imagine I'll have to learn how to fly). Looks like it will cost me upwards of $2k, but I already knew nothing in this sport is cheap. :(

c) Assuming I have the skills and the goods, how hard is it to actually find work? This is the question I hesitate to ask, because I know there's probably not an easy answer. I'm lucky that I have quite a few DZ's in my area, and I do plan on talking to each DZO in the near future and asking him this question. I'm basically just wondering if anyone out there personally has invested lots of time and money with the hopes of becoming a vidiot, only to be told that the DZ doesn't need anymore and there are already 20 other people asking for the same job. That would suck, and I'd imagine it does happen some places, but like I said since I'm near so many DZ's I feel I have better chances.

edited to add: Does it make it harder if I'm only available on weekends? (because of weekday 9-5 job)

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[PhreeZone 15]

A) Depends on how much time you want to commit I guess. If you put in 100 learning jumps in the next month then you will probally pick up fast, if you mix things up and fun jump and play... its going to take a while longer. If your belly skills are weak, it might take a full year to get good enough to get into a video rotation at some places.

B) Learn to fly just the video alone for a hundred jumps and then add in the stills. I have 300+ video jumps and then just added a stills this weekend. I forgot to hit record on the camera both jumps since I was so worried about the stills. Its super easy to get distracted trying to frame things up. Don't forget the ringsite, the Cam-eye, the extra tapes, the extra batteries, the carrying cases, the replacement parts, the wide angle lenses, and all the little things. Add in stills and you need to remember extra memory cards, CD's, different lenses, bite switches, quick releases, etc. Figure at least another 4-500 in little things to start with.

C) Places like Perris have very high requirements to film tandems... I think you even need to be an AFF or TM there to film tandems. Last I knew they had a waiting list of people wanting to get into the full time rotation. Weekend jobs were even filled for the most part. Deland teams typically have their own video guy or they are paying top dollar to a top video guy so they know every one of their jumps is being used to the max and they can debrief them all. Fun jumping there is different to say the least so I'm clueless as to that there. Some DZ's just don't have the business to employ 20 videographers so they only use the top 3-4 full timers and grab extra as needed. Its all what your DZ's needs are.

Bouncing around DZ's is'nt a great way to get into the rotation since they need people that are there every weekend and they can depend in them being there. Showing up once a month doe'nt help them much.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[airborne82nd 0]

the ff2 is a good helmet but it sticks out a bit and the housing is the same for every cam, so if you have a small hc42 they sell you the insoles for the housing. i have a hawkeye with a box around it aluminum, side mount but hawkeys are hard to find and someone said they are out of business, the boneheads are nice the optik ( need a chin cup and a quick relase is very nice ) you can get a .5 lens and a say .42 very wide for the hc42, quality is great, of course do the manual focus and to infinity and take it out of easy cam mode.
there are other helmets like rawa and these others,
but i turn my head a bit to the side and never get any risor slap on opening now some dont do that but with my canopy its soft opening, so as far as helmet and cams go the hc 92 is better the the 42 i dont know how much money you have to spend.

as far as experience and skill and all that its best to search the threads and see, i can advise anyone on that. people at your dz may tell you how you fly if it is good enough to learn.

now say you fly well enough to say record the skydives you know, like your jumping with your buds and you are all doing a 4way and your part of it and you have your .42 or .38 lens and your just letting the hc42 film ya, its different filming tandems, aff's, rw groups and teams, fre flyers, and oh boy chasing around some of the new freestyle flyers doing splits and all that boy thats challenging.

but i cant tell you since i don know how many jumps and how well you fly and your jump experince and tunnel time and all that ect... but there are some good rules of thumb to follow fo jumping video like 150-200 jumps and some say alot more. but you have alot of jumps id say you could get some cam coaching and some training.

see i was luck with timing and other vidoe people who trained me want to do aff instructing and tandems master so i kind of move in while they move on to other things they want to do.

good luck

[Zoter 0]

Quote

the ff2 is a good helmet but it sticks out a bit and the housing is the same for every cam

True.....but with an FF2 and a low pro lense ( eg Royal Lense) there is practically nothing that can snag a line.....everything is enclosed in a smooth cornered box.
I'm just starting with mine an d did get a couple of riser slaps on deployment to start....but now....my helmet doesnt even get touched by the risers.

The fit on an FF2 made for you is amazing as well.....real comfy

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

At most places, there is no "requirement" to provide stills, Matt. There is certainly no reason to start jumping stills right away as you are learning, that's for sure. I used to shoot a lot of four-way video 15 years ago, then went nearly that long without a camera on my head. Now it's pretty odd that I don't have my camera on. I jump it for all the AFF jumps I do, all the wingsuit stuff, and I get pulled into tandem video rotation when Tony needs me. You know I jump an Optik Illusion with a PC-109 side-mounted on an L-bracket. I didn't like the available D-box sticking out nearly an inch past the camera, so I don't jump my camera "enclosed."

I think the FF2 is a really nice "enclosed" side-mount and I like the Rawa as well. If I were looking for least amount of snag potential of the two I would get the FF2. Katie jumps one and really likes it.

As to flying camera, what you need to work on are three things:
-"head awareness": flying your body around your head so that you keep the subject in frame.

-ability to fly your slot in close proximity to the subject from exit to pull time without washing all around.

-vertical range. The ability (by means of dressing for success and flying ability) to pop up and fly very slow and also do what you have to do to speed up very fast. This is especially true for tandems.

You are going to need to have to get the camera setup and start jumping it for "fun" to get your skill-set up. Since you do a tremendous amount of wingsuit stuff, I can tell you that it's one of the more difficult things to film. Get good at keeping fellow wingsuiters in frame until you are happy with the results you get and then you will find other stuff a piece of cake.

Chuck

[Brains 2]

Wow, you have already gotten some great information from Phree and MonkeyOne. All i have to add is some of my personal experience. I started wearing a camera (video only) and jumping with friends etc to start learning. I then agreed to start jumping with a skysurfer. Wow, talk about re-learning how to fly. You need to be able to accelerate and then virtually stop very quickly. I have found that these skills really come in handy for filming tandems. When that tandem master has a less than perfect exit, and holds that drouge, you need to be able to keep up and then slow down to stay with them when the drouge does deploy. Some freefly skills are very handy to have there. You also need to learn to fly very smoothly, otherwise the video looks like crap. For practice when i wanted to shoot tandems, i started jumping with a tandem master/videographer friend of mine. He knew i was capable of filming them (tandems) so he had me go along and practice when his tandems didn't have/pay for video. He was able to give me hand signals in the air and then debrief me later to help me out. He is my mentor, and i didn't get into the rotation untill he said i was ready.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[riggerrob 561]

a) Your first step is perfecting your skydiving skills beyond the cognitive and associative stages. Don't touch a camera until saving your own life and moving around the sky are second nature (autonomous stage).
In other words, you should not have THINK about opening, you should consistently find yourself hanging under a parachute at the same altitude - on every jump - without consciously thinking about tracking, waving, pulling, etc.
Convincing a senior videographer to mentor you will shave hundreds of jumps off your learning curve.

The same concept applies to camera skills. A few evenings reading the manual for your camera (GASP! SHOCK! HORROR!) and videoing your cat will help prepare you for the fast-paced world of DZ videography. A Twin Otter - on a busy Saturday morning - is the worst place to learn the subtleties of camera switchology.

b) $2000 for a camera helmet sounds about right.

c) Southern California is over-run with part-time videographers. The trick is being more consistent than the part-time wannabees.
Consistency means more than just keeping the student in frame, it means being ready each and every morning, preparing ALL your gear well before the gear-up call and being ready to meet any 5-minute call manifest throws at you.
Plan on paying for your first 24 camera jumps and just chasing your buddies around the sky.
Your second step involves a briefing from a senior camera flyer or senior tandem instructor. Then you have to convince the senior tandem instructor that you are not going to hurt him before he will allow you into the part-time/spec rotation. Once you have sold a few videos on "spec," and consistently shown up every weekend, all season, you can ask for a full-time slot your second season.
As for only working weekends: cool! Most DZs have too many videographers on weekdays and too few on weekends. If you are consistently on-site, bright and early every Saturday morning, then you can earn a part-timer slot.

[quade 3]

Quote

c) Southern California is over-run with part-time videographers.

True and not true.

There are a large number of people that have cameras mounted on their helmets.

There is a shortage of -good- camera flyers.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[avenfoto 0]

hey matt...you may or may not remember me from the hogflop... digitalbase/gta while "roughing it" in the tent.... anyway my .02...
a) w/no cam jumps... getting started will take a while... jump just a video camera for 50/100 jumps or so.. (and be comfortable with it before add your wingsuit... thats alot of variables there trying to kill you..) as far as other skills... primarily fundamental belly stuff... matching fallrates, moving where you want to be and so on.. (freefly cam is a whole different animal...) w/300+ jumps you should have this down anyway.. b) equipment... again id stay away from the still for now... and when you do get that far id go with something smaller than an slr... i know alot of pros jump slr,2vid,flash and so on but thats a ton of shit up there to think about... look into like a digital elph or something similar.. only 3mp but plenty for the standard whuffo.... and about the size of a deck of cards, weighing nothing to boot...
when you do get into full resolutioion stills, id jump the still/or the vid not both at the same time untill youre comfortable.. (just my opinion, but an slr mounted horizontally has all kinds of snag points...)
on a side note.. how come noone manufactures slr dboxes?

c) in about 6mos when youve got all this on lock, youre flying your slot, know what an aperature is/does how it relates to shutterspeed, and youre still alive having always been out at breakoff time,
it shhouldnt be terribly hard to find work. (but i think you need a coach rating to fly vid on afff/coach/student jumps)
especially if youve been doing all this at the same dz,the dzo knows you and the fact that youre looking to start flyingcam... and as far as only being avail on weekends, there are plenty of weekend only operations in this wonderfuld land of sunshine,thunderstorms, and hurricanes .. (not to mention beaches and bikin-clad 20somethings...

[The111 1]

Yeh I remember you... Bryan, right? (ok, I checked your profile but just to see if I was right!)

Thanks for the advice. About the Digital Elph, I actually already have 3MP Casio Exilim that looks like pretty much the same thing. Is it possible to take a camera like that on a skydive? First there's the mechanical lens that like pops out, and I don't know if terminal air/dust would hurt that somehow. I also don't know if it would be adaptable to a bite/tongue/blow switch, but I'll admit I don't know a thing about how those attach to a camera anyhow. And I do plan on taking everyone's advice about not adding stills until after many video only jumps, which was my plan already anyway. :)

Thanks again for all the great replies everybody.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[avenfoto 0]

the elph lens dosent extend.. and as far as a remote shutter release its different for each model/manufacturer but canon's pretty good about having hookupd already installed....

[Albatross 0]

Trust me Quade is Right. There are TONS of people shooting video but when it comes time to compete there are always people trying to get video. Being a competitor and just starting to get a video set-up together, I know how important good video is. A Good camera flier who is there on time, get the exit, keeps a heading, and shoots tight video is a critical and valuable member of any team. Ask Airspeed how valuable it can be.

Chris