Requirements to flying w/camera?

[Chivo 0]

Hi all. I don't jump with a camera, and don't intend to anytime soon. But I've read posts about ppl with a few jumps getting flamed because they want to fly a camera, and most of the responses are to wait till he has 200 jumps. Now I'm curious, are there any requirements/reason for that?

Is someone with 200 jumps more cualified to handle an emergency than someone with 100 jumps? Isn't the training the same? (I mean, to handle emergencies.)

I bet that someone with 200 jumps will probably be able to fly better, track better and have better canopy control. But for someone who jumps for fun (is not looking to video teams or tandems), can this jump difference improve his emergency handling procedures?

In your opinion, does that depend more on the training? Or on number of jumps?

I'm just curious... why is the recomended number of jumps 200? Why not more? Why not less?

Thats all for now.
L8r,
Chivo

[jdhill 0]

I started jumping with a camera at about 400 jumps... USPA does not have a requirement or recommendation for when on can or can't jump camera... there are a few Tandem manufactures that have called out requirements for when a camera person is qualified to jump with one of their tandem instructors, but I have rarely seen thos guidlines followed...

There are a lot of reasons people say wait until over x number of jumps...

As you sighted, the training for someone with 100 jumps is likely the same as someone with 200 jumps. But someone with 200 has likely been around the sport longer, is more comfortable in the air, should have more awareness and flying skills, and may be less prone to freak out in the event of an emergency...it is important that one can remain calm and be very deliberate in their actions when dealing with and entangled helmet, and it is not likely that someone with 100 jumps can do that (or 200 jumps for that matter). Also, when flying in differnet camera locations, a flyer is very close to be in someone's burble or causing someone to be in theirs, you don't want to be the guy that drops on someone's head and knocks them out (or visa versa), so skills and awareness are key. Someone with 100 jumps just is not likely to be there.

Noone should approach staping a camera to the side or top of their head lightly. UNfortunately, many people think it is just falling straign down and no big deal because they have never seen a camera entanglement. I've seen one, and it ain't pretty.

Just my opinion.

Josh

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[quade 3]

Quote

I'm just curious... why is the recomended number of jumps 200?

I have a couple of reasons, but let me quote some stuff I've written a LOT of times.

Quote

First and foremost, you should be at least a pretty competant skydiver before strapping a camera on your head. I don't mean that you need to know how to crank 20 points, but you should at least be able to fly your body to anywhere in a formation and HOLD IT without side-sliding or back-sliding around the sky. If you can't control your body in flight, then ---YOU--- are the biggest danger.

You'll also want to be a fairly competant parachutist. If you can't manage consistant, accurate, stand-up landings in no wind conditions, then you sure as heck shouldn't be putting extra gear on your head to snap your neck when you biff in.

I would recommend you hold a USPA D license or your country's equivilent.

So, that in a nut-shell is it.

Besides, if you begin your "specialty" of camera flying before you learn all of the other things you really should know for your "D", then you're just short changing yourself.

If you have any more questions about this, or want to talk about camera flying, look me up over at Perris.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Cajones 0]

Very nice summary JD... There is no substitute for actual skydives to open up your awareness. Flying should become second nature, before adding in the extra factors of a camera. If you have to think about how to fly, you don't have the bandwidth to recognize when something else might be "wrong." This is the root of why Tandem manufacturers made rules about jump numbers. I know that numbers aren't the only factor. There are jumpers with 200 jumps that are more aware than some with a thousand. This' the best guideline we have, though. Until someone comes up with a chart that takes more factors into account, we just have to play by the rules...

The laws of physics are strictly enforced.

[Chivo 0]

Thx, I'd like to talk about this and other skydiving related stuff. I'll see you at the dz sometime.

Chivo

Oh, and thanks to Josh and to Cajones for your replies.

[diverds 0]

JD has some great points. One thing I would add is that it is very easy to get really involved with "getting the shot". You are thinking about many things at once. Is this framed the way I want it? Where is the light? How can I position myself to get the best angle? Etc. Etc. I have found myself low on more than 1 camera jump because of one or a combination of the above items. An audible helps, but can be forgotten on the ground or not turned on.

IMHO, the best saftey net is a solid foundation of skydiving experience that could take many more then 200, 300 or even 500 jumps depending on the person. In short, be 100% comfortable with your skydiving skills before adding outside pressures like "getting the shot".

Skydive Radio

[SniperCJ 0]

What they said!

Plus I really like the fact that I had 2 cutaways before I started camera jumping. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to have dealt with 2 situations pre-camera before having to deal with one with a camera. Tandem masters are required to have had a live cutaway or an intentional cutaway before getting a rating.

I know that would be tough on a lot of people given that I know many people with a couple thousand jumps and never had a cutaway.

Just something else to think about.

JC

[AndyMan 7]

I think one point that has been missed is that you really need to get to the point where saving your life is second nature - instinctual.

What do I mean by this? For example, you need to recognize pulltime instinctively, because you generally won't be looking at an altimeter, and audibles can fail without warning. You need to be able to judge altitude without the aid of any external devices.

Also, for example - If you're flying above a formation and see a pilot chute come loose, you need to be able to fly your body out of the path of the deploying canopy ON INSTINCT. If you need to pause even for a second and consider options about what to do... you're eating nylon.

Reactions to non-standard situations need to be decisive, and quick - second nature.

This is a level of confidence that can be acheived only through training AND experience.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[jimmytavino 16]

Right On Andyman,,,,,
one should be very much at ease during a skydive, and very comfortable with the FEEL of deployment, very familiar with the geography of the area surrounding the DZ,,,(comes in handy when you're the last tandem out the door,,, on an exit that has 6 or 7 different "groups".) and confident
in all aspects of the skydive,,,, from gearing up..... to daisy chaining your lines upon landing.....
Only then,,, may you,, and should you, add to the mix,,,,,,, the weight, the components, the responsibility and the complexity that goes along with videography ,,,at the level necessary to justify the effort.... There ARE now TWO basic types of Video,,,,,if you will.....the "Pro" stuff,,video for pay,,,,, such as tandem vid... Aff Vid.,, 4-way vid.,,, etc.... and then there is the pleasant growth of jumpers who simply want a video log of their own personal jumps...(freeflyers, freestyle teams, surfer/video teams, etc.)
If your interest can be met with smaller, lighter, camera gear, such as the side mounts, the PC series etc.. then , the weight factor, the bulk factor, indeed the entanglement factor, can be kept to a reasonable level..... The top mounts, the dual camera set ups, the bulkier helmet rigs.... all these DO require, greater care, greater caution, and maybe a bit more experience......but like all things in our sport.....go slow and easy,,, learn and then learn some more,,,, and watch out for yourselves and your pals............jimmytee.......
when people ask me
"Wow,,,, How Much does that camera helmet weigh!???"
I usually say,,,, "in freefall it's weightless!!!!!!,,,,,, but
at opening it's 4 G's..!!!..