0
McCartney

Bigway Wing Loading

Recommended Posts

Not sure if this should go in the canopy section but it's to do with RW bigway jumps in particular.

For 100 way plus jumps, is there a particular range that your wing loading must be within or at least a minimum loading that you must have on your canopy?

Im just thinking from a safety point of view you would not want very slow canopies in the landing patterns with so many canopies opening and landing at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McCartney

Not sure if this should go in the canopy section but it's to do with RW bigway jumps in particular.

For 100 way plus jumps, is there a particular range that your wing loading must be within or at least a minimum loading that you must have on your canopy?

Im just thinking from a safety point of view you would not want very slow canopies in the landing patterns with so many canopies opening and landing at the same time.



Isn't that like saying we should all drive faster on the highway when there's more traffic on the road?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How could it possibly be unsafe to have a lot of slow canopies in the sky?

Are you talking about a wingloading of 1 or less? What would YOU suggest is a maximum size before things get dangerous?

Even if they are all open, by some bizarre quirk, at exactly the same height... even if they all land at exactly the same time.. why would they be unsafe?

They move slowly. In a bigway event, they land over a wide area of ground. Slowly.

I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am genuinely confused here. Unless they are going backwards in a strong wind, I'm trying to figure out what would make them dangerous?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you should take a step back Ouch and actually read my post. It is a question not a statement of my opinion.

With so many canopies landing and in the pattern at the same time it is likely that if you have canopies loaded at 1 and others at 2.5 plus then slower canopies will be caught from faster ones behind.

Obviously a faster canopy catching up on a slower one can go on half breaks etc but this only pushes the problem back up the stack.

So I still have my original question, is there a minimum loading requirement or is this just part if the acceptable and consider risk of bigways.
Maybe someone with experience of organising big events could answer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

For 100 way plus jumps, is there a particular range that your wing loading must be within or at least a minimum loading that you must have on your canopy?



Some big ways I have been told have required wingloadings. Mainly it was below a certain number.

Quote

Im just thinking from a safety point of view you would not want very slow canopies in the landing patterns with so many canopies opening and landing at the same time.



How about flipping that and "Im just thinking from a safety point of view you would not want very FAST canopies in the landing patterns with so many canopies opening and landing at the same time."

I'd rather see everyone on .9 WL's on a big way than 2.0.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McCartney

No Trev, it's like saying you should drive at the same speed as others on the highway so that someone doesn't catch up on you unexpectedly from behind



....When there is congestion on the highway we don't collectively speed up to avoid accidents, we collectively slow down. By your reasoning it would be safer to retrofit rockets to ourselves and go as fast as possible...

Wouldn't it make sense to find some middle ground? a conservative WL range people are comfortable with?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I’ve been on every FAI bigway world record since 1999.

What you’ll find with multi aircraft jumps is that the spot will be less consistent than with regular jumps. This will be because of the demands of positioning the aircraft in relation to each other, the increased altitude and therefore increased freefall drift and in some cases a decision by the organisers position the opening point to influence the canopy pattern.

It will often be undesirable to land in the regular landing areas and in some cases it will be impossible. As a result, you need to treat every jump like a demo/display jump, as there’s a fairly good chance that you’ll need to make an off landing at some point. In places like Eloy this may just be a landing in the desert dodging the cacti and thorn bushes. In other DZ’s you could find yourself in a residential area trying to find a suitable landing area, along with a few dozen of your fellow jumpers.

If you happen to have a reserve ride (and these tend to be more frequent on these events because pack jobs tend to be rushed) then you’ll probably be at a lower altitude and your problems will be multiplied. If you’re on a small, highly loaded F111 reserve that you’ve never landed before then you’ll probably be wishing that you’d made a different choice when placed the order for your kit.

If you do have a mal on a high performance canopy then you don’t really want to find yourself spiralling through a crowded sky full of canopies. When we set the 357 way record I had twists on opening and found myself flying straight towards a one of my teammates with very little ability to do anything about it. Fortunately he was able to take avoiding action and in a few seconds I had the situation under control, but on a more radical canopy that could have been a very different outcome.

The argument that faster canopies help reduce congestion in the landing area only works if those small highly-loaded canopies can guarantee to be down first. This isn’t always the case due to the nature of the beast and you certainly don’t want to encourage the people flying these canopies to be throwing-in 720s to make this happen. Neither do you want people sitting on deep brakes on finals or doing S-turns.

What you look for on bigways is flexibility and consistency. Everyone is familiar with the ‘dress for success’ mantra when it comes to choosing the combination of jumpsuit size and how much lead to wear. We aim for a mid-range position that allows us the range to go faster or slower depending on the circumstances. We should aim to do the same when it comes to canopy choice so that we have a canopy that will get us down safely in whatever situation we’re presented with. If the hardcore canopy pilots find this approach too boring then they should exclude themselves from bigways and focus on swooping events instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Personal opinion, but I think that big way rw organizers can, and should have learned from the big way crw organizers.
100 canopies, from 113's to 218's, all flying to the exact same air space, at the same time in a controlled manner all due to wing loading requirements. Ego's and mad skilz set aside for success and safety.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0