alexey 6 #1 February 17, 2003 Hello. I'm rigger and AFF instructor from Ukraine (ex-USSR). In our country there is no certification system for manufacturers of skydiving equipmeng (harness\reserve). Because of that each DZ making own rules, and because of that there are many malfunctions (equipment trobles). 2 month ago at our DZ died AFF instructor - total mal on reserve (wrong construction). After that some DZ owners made working team for developing certification system... Can someone help me: i need info about certification in US, test programs, requirement for material and facilities, ets... Anything about that... Thanks you... Alexey D. Sharadkin Master-Rigger and Chief-Instructor of Association "PARA-SKUF" Tel. +380 44 578-12-69 E-mail: [email protected] WWW: www.paraskuf.com.ua ICQ: 112688137Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 775 #2 February 18, 2003 I don't really know a helluva lot, and I'm not a rigger or anything, but may I suggest doing some searches on 'TSO', both here and on a search engine; google, excite. Good luckI got nuthin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #3 February 18, 2003 http://pia.com/quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #4 February 18, 2003 Sorry to hear about your buddy's death. Please tell us the details of his accident so we can avoid repeating his mistakes. Fortunately there is huge body of knowledge available in the western world. Capitalists are so busy copying each other that few secrets remain. The thing I found most amusing about the 2003 Parachute Industry Symposium was that all the manufacturers - even the Russian manufacturers - are converging. Eventually we will have only two or three designs with minor variations built by a dozen different factories! Your first step should be to get a copy of (American) Federal Aviation Administration Type Standardization Order C23D (FAA TSO C23D). http://av-info.faa.gov/tso/Tsocur/C23d.doc FF TSO C23E will be introduced in a few months, with minor changes. Like most government documents, it can be difficult to understand, so feel free to ask me or any other FAA Master Parachute Rigger to explain the details. For example, how did Australian, Canadian, French and South African companies obtain TSO certification from the FAA? European JTSO and French (EQ 530-03 and QAC 121) parachute certification standards are close to FAA standards. For example, Dan Poynter has published several excellent books on parachute rigging. http://www.parapublishing.com/parachute/resources.html The Australian Parachute Federation has published the most complete list of Service Bulletins. Reading through this list will give you an idea of what works and what does not. Some of Service Bulletins cover quality control issues while others correct design flaws. http://www.apf.asn.au/apf_services/sb_rac.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #5 February 18, 2003 Quote FF TSO C23E will be introduced in a few months, with minor changes. Rob, If you'd been at the Parachute Certification Standards committee meetings before the sypmosium you'd know that a few years is more likely. I doubt the PIA standard will be done this year, even though Manley claims it will be. And the FAA has threatened, unofficially, not to adopt it as the new TSO if they are unsatisfied with the document. I expect with the FAA process of adoption it wil be at least two years for TSO c23E to issue. Everyone would like it sooner but I just don't see it. If there are significant comments to the FAA it may be much longer. Alexey, For now I'd suggest working from TSO C23d, or even b or c, for guidance for a testing program. Also, quality control procedures for the manufacturing process and materials that are used must be part of any plan to improve quality of the equipment used. You can contact Manley Butler, of Butler Parachute Systems, at [email protected]. He is the newly reelected chairman of the PIA Parachute Certification Standards committee. He will be able to update you on the progress of the standard we hope to have adopted as TSO c23E by the FAA.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bruno 0 #6 February 19, 2003 simply adopt the TSO/JTSO At your DZ let jump ONLY TSOed/JTSOed rig/reserve Bruno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #7 February 19, 2003 Quotesimply adopt the TSO/JTSO At your DZ let jump ONLY TSOed/JTSOed rig/reserve Bruno That is easier said than done. Grounding all the non-TSOed gear would ground most of the instructors at many Eastern European DZs. Also consider exchange rates and how not many Eastern Europeans can afford shiny new gear - regardless of certification. Far wiser to use a three-step program. First, ground the worst old-school gear today. Secondly, publiclly inform all jumpers that no new non-TSOed gear will be allowed on the DZ. Finally, announce that after such-and-such a date (two or three years in the future), non-TSOed gear will be banned from the DZ. Since a new generation of fun jumpers pass through the DZ every two or three years, this should be easy. After four years, the only hold-outs will be a handful of POPS. Wise DZOs will sell new gear to POPS "at cost" to encourage them to lead by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #8 February 19, 2003 Quote Sorry to hear about your buddy's death. Please tell us the details of his accident so we can avoid repeating his mistakes. After sufficiently succesfull jump (AFF level 4), student on opening altitude went to spin, frighten to no pull... Instructor catch him, opened his chute at about 500 m, and then at abou 400 m pull his reserve (we have such rules in our old SIM). He tried to kick out reserve to the ground.... Malfunction occured because of badness of construction. Bottom reserve flap and top main flap was made like one rigid detail. Because of that, when main container filled (bag still in container) PC of reserve cant jump out (its holding by bottom flap). Quote Your first step should be to get a copy of (American) Federal Aviation Administration Type Standardization Order C23D (FAA TSO C23D). http://av-info.faa.gov/tso/Tsocur/C23d.doc Is that all? Just 2 pages? Or it is just abbreviated notation? As I understand, requirements about testing I can find in AS 8015B. Have somebody it in file, or link to... And where can I find requirements about materials for manufacturers, strength of the construction, sewing, ets? Thanks for you help, sorry for badly English...Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #9 February 20, 2003 AS8015B has magically appeared in the /uploads/ folder of skydivingmovies.com. It is NOT a free document so therefore will have to be removed. But I'm currently on a break. If anyone should happen to download it, there's nothing I can do. Gee I wonder what rebel uploaded it. Since you're pretty serious about this thing, if you'd like to purchase an official copy, you can get it HERE. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #10 February 20, 2003 One more question... Have manufacturer do test program (like AS 8015) for each model of equipment (test, for example, reserve canopy each size - 106, 113, ets, or rig each size) or testing have to be done only for 1 model in series... Have the manufacturer make tests for main?Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 February 20, 2003 Many material specifications are available on-line at the Parachute Industry Association's website. A few years back the American military-industrial complex tired of maintaining MIL specifications, so they handed the responsibility to PIA. A military specification that used to read: " MIL-1234" now reads: "PIA-1234." http://www.pia.com/ecommerce/ Just because a parachute material does not have a MIL/PIA spec does not automatically exclude it from TSOed parachutes. You should be able to include Communist-Spec materials in TSOed parachutes as long as you can prove tracability. TSO manufacturers do not have to test-drop every single size of a container, different sizes are included in the same TSO as "minor changes." Mind you the definition of "minor change" and "major change" vary widely depending upon who you ask. He! He! Wiser manufacturers repeat tests on their largest and smallest models because opening characteristics change near the edges of the envelope. Main canopies are not covered by TSO. However all manufacturers exceed FAA requirements by doing exhaustive test jumps before they let the public jump new main parachute designs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #12 February 20, 2003 Quote*** Malfunction occured because of badness of construction. Bottom reserve flap and top main flap was made like one rigid detail. Because of that, when main container filled (bag still in container) PC of reserve cant jump out (its holding by bottom flap). *** Bill Booth has mentioned this potential problem before. Badly made Vector copies (or Vectors) could have this problem.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alexey 6 #13 February 21, 2003 Yes, it was "homemade" Vector-copyLexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
alexey 6 #13 February 21, 2003 Yes, it was "homemade" Vector-copyLexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
