4way training question

[borgy 0]

Hey guys I was curious of opinions about the best way to improve 2nd point times for our team. we're an ausy 4way intermediate team members have between 800 to 300 jumps and we're doing about a 10 average. the 2 schools of thought that have been put forward to us are:

1) brake straight off the door on every random exit and fix it afterwards. we were told the point is to make everyone fly their slot straight off the door instead of just hanging on for the ride.

2)Don't rush it brake the first point when it is comfortable, faster exit breaks and 2nd point times will come with time.

Both obviously make sense but we're not sure what approach to take we've got about 100 jumps before our next comp and want to make the most of them, any oppinions???

Borgy

I only trust two people in this world, one of them is me and the other one aint you.
Nicolas Cage as Cameron Poe in "Con Air"

[AMax 0]

my humble two cents:

Work on:
1) Your exits - the solid exit is a key to a quicker second point

2) Good eye contact between cross partners right off the aircraft (unless you're a point launching block 4 )

3) Anticipation of a second point - go through the whole page when you practice the exit on the ground and visualize the whole page after you do your exit count in the aircraft


Edit to add:
You might find this thread useful ... especially Kirk's post at the end


http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=140146;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

[damion75 0]

It totally depends on the quality of your exits! Option (1) seems like a bit of a risk...

Quote

brake straight off the door on every random exit and fix it afterwards

You would on average almost certainly spend more time 'fixing afterwards' if you break straight out of the door. Also bear in mind that the camera needs to get a shot of that first point for you to score it.

I would (within the limits of my own experience!) tend towards option (2). Definitely don't rush, but as your exits get better and more precise then also don't hang around in a perfectly stable 'hill' formation - get on to the next point.

Its a progression thing, start slow and guarantee the exits, then pick up the pace and shorten the time spent in the exit point as your exits get better.

The key thing (as the other thread mentioned) is to accept the differences of working on the hill, and not to try and flatten out too quickly, or the level issues will kill your average!!

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[bob.dino 0]

I'd replace the Outside Centre. That'd fix all your problems .


More seriously, maybe you could spend a day or weekend where every jump has the same exit? Because you're keeping the exit point the same, everyone can focus on the other details - focus on eye contact between yourself and the IC the whole way through the exit and having everyone calm and relaxed. The key will naturally speed up because everyone's awareness increased.

Then, when you bring the extra awareness back to the other exits, you'll find errors getting fixed more quickly and more accurately, allowing your keys to come faster.

Just my opinion, but then I'm not all that much more experienced than you guys...

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Quote

1) brake straight off the door on every random exit and fix it afterwards. we were told the point is to make everyone fly their slot straight off the door instead of just hanging on for the ride.

2)Don't rush it brake the first point when it is comfortable, faster exit breaks and 2nd point times will come with time.

Agreed with above that it depends on how good your exits are... I've been on teams where each option was better.

If your exits are very good (very steep, and little/no tension) I'd say the first option. My most recent team was VERY good on exits and the hill, and breaking right out the door really helped us... we were 20 points behind the top intermediate team at nationals (still an 11.6 average), but we beat them to the 2nd and 3rd points on almost every jump. Watching the videos, we beat a lot of advanced class teams too.

On the other hand, if your exits need work (still have some tension or rotation, or if you're a bit flat and breaking right out the door results in vertical separation) then I'd say you need to work on exits first and not start breaking right out the door just yet. Most of those teams that beat us would hold their weaker exit for 1-3 more seconds than us to let it settle, and take the first few points easy... then they'd kick our asses in the last 20 seconds of the dive. I noticed it in particular on the AF teams... horrid exits, but all that tunnel time had them slaughtering us once they got going.

Good luck!

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[billvon 2,400]

>2)Don't rush it brake the first point . . .

Break the first point when it is flying well. Breaking too soon will cause wasted time while you try to rebuild, and in some cases will cause funnels as X gets over Y because X was on the upswing when the key came.

[borgy 0]

Everyone seems to be of the same oppinion, its what we've been leaning towards anyway. Our team is not that aggresive in its approach which is why I think we were told to brake straight off the door but I guess each team has to take an approach that works for them.

Thanks for the advice


Borgy

I only trust two people in this world, one of them is me and the other one aint you.
Nicolas Cage as Cameron Poe in "Con Air"

[rehmwa 2]

perhaps your exits are a bit better than you think - it's normal for a second or so to be lost if anyone has a bit of 'exit' rush (easy to see, even if the team breaks right away, that member will pause, or turn to the middle and just look for a sec, or something like that). I see one or two on most any team. They need that second point to focus on so the exit is just something in the background of the real mission.

"thinking" about breaking right away will give that member (those members) something to think about so they don't 'pause' just following the exit.

I like a calm exit - go-lock it-break. Calm does NOT mean slow, just that you have a job to do and a cadence that the team is familiar with and you don't piss away any unnecessary time. That means if you present the formation correctly right away, you can break right away and it doesn't feel rushed.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Samurai136 0]

Focus on #2 and have a coach to debrief the jumps.

Try to learn something each jump that will improve the team's ability to turn more points after the hill. As you develop a team rhythm the pace will pick up on it's own. Eventually the confidence & anticipation of turning lots of points off the hill will begin to creep into faster transitions on the hill.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[bliston 0]

This article might be helpful, there's a section on exits...

http://www.collegeskydiving.com/content/view/78/373/

-Ben

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!

[UKFSChick 0]

You might find this article helpful:

http://www.onthelineskydiving.com/files/Train_Smart_AV_3_1_.pdf

Have fun :)