Rookie Question

[scaryshari 0]

We had 3 busts in our last TSL jump and can't seem to find them in the video. When building the Hammer as a random, is it directionally specific for Point?

is

[Dionysus 0]

If I remember correctly the hammer is direction specific for point. Keep in mind it is a 270 turn for point and the turn is direction specific, clockwise. So if you start out with a right sidebody you will have to do a 450 degree turn (clockwise) to build the close.
Of course I have been known to be wrong, just ask my teammates .

[scaryshari 0]

All I can say is "uh-oh" and the "assumption" cost us 3 points. My mistake.

If you are right, that it is directionally specific in a RANDOM, my teammates are going to kill me.

is

[Remster 24]

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When building the Hammer as a random, is it directionally specific for Point?

As a random, no, it shouldnt be. As a block, again, its not, but you need to turn 270, so you can mirror image what you see on the dive pool, but again, as long as you turn the 270.

Remster

[Samurai136 0]

What was the draw for the round?

For the Hammer build from a random either mirror image build is correct.

For the inter, one build will have the point of the hammer turning right-270 and the tail turning left-270. The mirror build will have the point turning left-270 and tail turning right-270. If tail doesn't recognize which image is built (they always start with cat grips)their turn could be incorrect, a bust.

Were there any separation busts?

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[AMax 0]

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All I can say is "uh-oh" and the "assumption" cost us 3 points. My mistake.

If you are right, that it is directionally specific in a RANDOM, my teammates are going to kill me.

I don't think they will kill you These medals, aren't they from the same meet your are talking about, girl???

[nitrox100 0]

>> We had 3 busts in our last TSL jump and can't seem to find them in the video. When building the Hammer as a random, is it directionally specific for Point? <<

The top of the block can be built with the point of the hammer facing either way. Since it is simply 3 cats and a sidebody, the direction of that sidebody being reversed would only constitute a mirror. Instead of who goes clockwise/counter-clockwise I like to think of it as the point turns away from the sidebody grip and the tail turns in the direction of the point's head.

A similar random build that some young teams have problems with is a hook. To the point it is similar to a hammer but direction has to be coordinated with the back half.

Hope that made sense.

[dgskydive 0]

Yes it is specific. Must follow arrows on draw sheet!

Dom

[scaryshari 0]

Yes Antone we stole one of those medals from you at the last meet I'll bring it to the DZ and let you touch if it you'd like...

We had some sloppy grips, which could have been a bust. If Dgskydive is serious (I'm vulnerable) the 3 busts are from poor engineering (Hammer) on my part.

is

[rehmwa 2]

Hammer (Block 13) was discussed in detail on skyleague last year.

Like Dom note, per the picture in the dive pool:

The head of the hammer (person facing sideways) must turn away from the 2-way cat - that gives them a 270 to finish on a cat of the 2-way. (if he starts facing 'left', then he turns right, if he starts facing 'right' then he turns left). It's really the only way to turn 270 and finish with cat grips. So that's easy, turn away from the center and finish on the leg grips..

The tail of the cat (last person on the 3-way cat) MUST turn opposite of the point (if the point turns right, the tail turns left - explicit in pic 13i below). Then go 270 to a sidebody presentation. This could be confusing since they could turn either way and still make a 270 ending with a side body preso. So remember to turn opposite to the point move.

The 2 way cat can turn either way. The inter picture implies this (file 13i below) but note that there is no arrow on the 2 way, only the individuals, so the pic is only showing the 2 way as a separated piece - not direction of turn. 13b is the part that requires the finish positions and that's what causes the 2way to turn - for that matter, the 2way could just sit and the individuals could make big moves (provided they also turn relative to each other and end up on the correct grips)

Usually, the 2way will turn opposite of the point - but that's not required.

In other words, do what the card says, but recall that the picture can be mirrored and note that direction is not specified for the 2-way piece in the middle. The only thing specified in the inter pic is that the point and tail 'cog' in direction and go 270 - and that there are 3 pieces. The rest of the inter is defined by the start and finish pictures.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AMax 0]

Bill,

You are deviating from the point. Rookies do not turn the blocks- they only build the tops of the blocks in addition to all other random formations. The question was about the random build.

[AMax 0]

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If Dgskydive is serious (I'm vulnerable) the 3 busts are from poor engineering (Hammer) on my part.

Do not blame yourself Everyone makes mistakes, including you and the judges (whose job was extremely difficult last Saturday because of very fast pace). Without the video it is difficult to guess what happened ...

[Ron 7]

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We had 3 busts in our last TSL jump and can't seem to find them in the video. When building the Hammer as a random, is it directionally specific for Point?

No. You can build ANY point in anyway that allows for all the correct grips.

If that point is a block (and you are turning it) you can build it in any direction you want...But the inter MUST follow the directions.

So in the case of turning the hammer Rem is correct.

However since you do not turn the block you should be allowed to build the random in any manner you wish.

Did you get your score sheets? They will show where the infringment is.

Chances are that you had some seperation issues, but I can't tell that without seeing the video.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[scaryshari 0]

Nah, I don't place any blame on the judges. They did a great job.

There were some questionable grips that did "clear" but may have actually scored as busts... (very close transition from G to the top of 4). I caught myself nearly crawling into that grip, but not 3 times....so, I was assuming it was a particular build that got us. Guess not.

is

[rehmwa 2]

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Bill,

You are deviating from the point. Rookies do not turn the blocks- they only build the tops of the blocks in addition to all other random formations. The question was about the random build.

Good point. Though, I didn't think rookies did any more than the 16 randoms (not the tops of blocks, etc). I'll have to look it up.

Edit: If you look at all the draws from last year, Skyleague rookie postings are 100% alphabet soup. No numbers. Using the top of the blocks in Rookie class must be a TSL thing?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[scaryshari 0]

The postings are not accurate. We have been doing tops of blocks (4, 6, 8, 11, 13, 15, and 16) since TSL 2.

is

[AMax 0]

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Using the top of the blocks in Rookie class must be a TSL thing?

I don't know but I think it's a great idea

[rehmwa 2]

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Using the top of the blocks in Rookie class must be a TSL thing?

I don't know but I think it's a great idea

I do too. I'll suggest it for our region too (our rookie teams always used the NSL rookie draw and never saw anything but A-Q). Rookie class is flexible that way, although using the Skyleague draw is nice compare to other teams.

Nice Draw - fast.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[scaryshari 0]

I like that we have tops of blocks, as it better prepares us for the next step up.

is

[nitrox100 0]

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Using the top of the blocks in Rookie class must be a TSL thing?

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I don't know but I think it's a great idea

The USPA did it back in 1998 at Nationals. They called it Recreation class. Dives were 5 points each. The formations could include any random and the top of ANY block. I thought it was a good idea but USPA did away with it after one year.

[rehmwa 2]

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I like that we have tops of blocks, as it better prepares us for the next step up.

What an even better idea -

Rookie - 16 randoms + the top of the A Blocks
A class - 16 randoms, the A blocks, + the top of the AA Blocks
AA class - 16 randoms, the AA blocks, + the top of the AAA blocks

I like that a lot, then moving up requires learning new "randoms", but the blocks you learn, you already have trained the random move that builds the top......

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[scaryshari 0]

Noted that some of the builds in Rookie, i.e., Zircon, are from the center, then in intermediate P & T have controlling grips. So some things that we did to help us will be modified.

is

[rehmwa 2]

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Noted that some of the builds in Rookie, i.e., Zircon, are from the center, then in intermediate P & T have controlling grips. So some things that we did to help us will be modified.

Good luck with it, I think it's a great way to get exposure to all the builds.

{{There are many ways to skin Block 18 - one has your compressed grips in the middle..... In the end, it doesn't matter which are controlling grips, it's more important that the centers learn to set up correctly and stop - then all the grips are right there however you want to mix it, or which block technique you choose - same goes for them all mostly}}

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AMax 0]

Shari,

I am sure Katy will be very pleased to know that you guys did well Have you e-mailed her?

[scaryshari 0]

Yes, we're sending her one of the medals as a surprise. She's not a DZ.commer, so she'll be thrilled.

WE still talk via email quite often and is aware that we did pretty good.she

is