airtwardo 6 #26 March 7, 2012 Please do not be offended if my comments do not apply to you. I just want to be sure that new jumpers do not get overly paranoid that they are going to fall out of their rigs. Quote No offense taken of course, and while i understand your point and agree that being overly paranoid about a seldom seen situation is counterproductive, it's no more-so than complacency. Falling out of a parachute harness is extremely unlikely, however it IS possible, obviously several measures can be taken to lower the possibility even more. Things don't always go to plan and equipment isn't always used as it's designed to be...if a bungee relieves the stress of concern and gives even a small degree of increased safety, that's a win/win ~ I'm all for it. ...that's all I'm saying. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BrianSGermain 1 #27 March 7, 2012 We are both right. I love it when that happens. :-)Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mchamp 1 #28 March 7, 2012 I like your thinking! Feel free to post your leg strap/butt strap idea here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4009846;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; There are some interesting legitimate ideas I saw there. Any sort of idea's in one location I think is great, also allows the manufacturers to see potential improvements and get ideas from the consumers and potentially implement it within their rigs. Actually right around the time I mentioned my leg straps loosening up while in the plane or walking to the plane with my rig a manufacturer offered a non-slip option right around the time I wrote it(already developed but with another manufacturer)! I thought that was amazing having that option!For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #29 March 7, 2012 QuoteWe are both right. I love it when that happens. :-) I've known my wife for over 30 years, and I'm still waiting to hear her say that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #30 March 7, 2012 Let's not discourage people from making their gear safer by rationalizing likelihood.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,421 #31 March 7, 2012 >Let's not discourage people from making their gear safer by rationalizing likelihood. At the same time, let's not make changes that might pose additional problems without thinking about it and evaluating the risks on both sides. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #32 March 8, 2012 "Quote... I will probably have the bungee mod made, but maybe make it so the bungee ties back on itself on each side instead of just relying on a knot that might compress and slip through the fabric loop under force. ..." ............................................................... If you can't tie knots, tie lots. Hah! Hah! Seriously, make the largest and ugliest knot you can think of and it will never pull through the tape loop on your leg pads. I have made a few butt bungees from old Safety-Stows. I just cut them at the end of the doubled section and tie a knot with the doubled section, then tie a larger and uglier knot in the other end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #33 March 8, 2012 Agreed! This problem only appeared after two changes in skydiving fashions. First, hip rings were introduced (1991). Most of the complaints came form SECOND owners of ringed harnesses. Several of these second owners were significantly smaller than the first owners. Secondly, sit-flying fell into fashion a few years later (1994). Now that skydivers were exposing their harnesses to winds - from unusual directions never imagined by harness designers - they started operating "outside the envelope." Every new skydiving discipline creates new challenges for parachute designers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MakeItHappen 15 #34 March 8, 2012 QuoteIf people feel safer with a butt strap, they should attach a butt strap. My point is that it doesn't actually happen all that often. We are making a big deal out of something, but on the whole, it is a non-issue for most people. If your body type, combined with your particular harness, combined with your flying style makes you more vulnerable that the average skydiver, address the issue. The point I was making is that the exception should not be made to appear to be the rule. That is how we lost our right to carry water bottles on commercial airliners. Please do not be offended if my comments do not apply to you. I just want to be sure that new jumpers do not get overly paranoid that they are going to fall out of their rigs. Fly Safe, Brian To the OP & Brian, I am aware that the fall out issue on individual sport rigs is small. The hazard probability of occurrence strongly depends on the jumper-gear match. To ignore that the hazard exists is to bury your head in the sand. The butt strap that I show in my article can be made by any rigger. It's not complicated and only needs one or two measurements. Steering the canopy is facilitated by the butt strap. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Doperope 0 #35 March 10, 2012 Interesting, you have really given me something to marinate on here. I have wondered, from time to time, why parachute harnesses did not have a slide out prevention system and climbing harnesses do. http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Climbing/Harnesses/PRD~5025-325/wild-country-syncro-ziplock-harness-unisex.jsp (Can't make "clicky" FML)Bad decisions make good stories!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #36 March 10, 2012 QuoteInteresting, you have really given me something to marinate on here. I have wondered, from time to time, why parachute harnesses did not have a slide out prevention system and climbing harnesses do. http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Climbing/Harnesses/PRD~5025-325/wild-country-syncro-ziplock-harness-unisex.jsp (Can't make "clicky" FML) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spills 0 #37 March 12, 2012 I just got my new wings this weekend and it came with a little bungee. I had to put it on myself but it came from wings. "Handsome" Dave was jumping and I asked him what he thought about it and I got the usual "that should work, haaaahaaahaaa!". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
BrianSGermain 1 #27 March 7, 2012 We are both right. I love it when that happens. :-)Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #28 March 7, 2012 I like your thinking! Feel free to post your leg strap/butt strap idea here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4009846;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; There are some interesting legitimate ideas I saw there. Any sort of idea's in one location I think is great, also allows the manufacturers to see potential improvements and get ideas from the consumers and potentially implement it within their rigs. Actually right around the time I mentioned my leg straps loosening up while in the plane or walking to the plane with my rig a manufacturer offered a non-slip option right around the time I wrote it(already developed but with another manufacturer)! I thought that was amazing having that option!For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #29 March 7, 2012 QuoteWe are both right. I love it when that happens. :-) I've known my wife for over 30 years, and I'm still waiting to hear her say that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #30 March 7, 2012 Let's not discourage people from making their gear safer by rationalizing likelihood.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,421 #31 March 7, 2012 >Let's not discourage people from making their gear safer by rationalizing likelihood. At the same time, let's not make changes that might pose additional problems without thinking about it and evaluating the risks on both sides. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #32 March 8, 2012 "Quote... I will probably have the bungee mod made, but maybe make it so the bungee ties back on itself on each side instead of just relying on a knot that might compress and slip through the fabric loop under force. ..." ............................................................... If you can't tie knots, tie lots. Hah! Hah! Seriously, make the largest and ugliest knot you can think of and it will never pull through the tape loop on your leg pads. I have made a few butt bungees from old Safety-Stows. I just cut them at the end of the doubled section and tie a knot with the doubled section, then tie a larger and uglier knot in the other end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #33 March 8, 2012 Agreed! This problem only appeared after two changes in skydiving fashions. First, hip rings were introduced (1991). Most of the complaints came form SECOND owners of ringed harnesses. Several of these second owners were significantly smaller than the first owners. Secondly, sit-flying fell into fashion a few years later (1994). Now that skydivers were exposing their harnesses to winds - from unusual directions never imagined by harness designers - they started operating "outside the envelope." Every new skydiving discipline creates new challenges for parachute designers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #34 March 8, 2012 QuoteIf people feel safer with a butt strap, they should attach a butt strap. My point is that it doesn't actually happen all that often. We are making a big deal out of something, but on the whole, it is a non-issue for most people. If your body type, combined with your particular harness, combined with your flying style makes you more vulnerable that the average skydiver, address the issue. The point I was making is that the exception should not be made to appear to be the rule. That is how we lost our right to carry water bottles on commercial airliners. Please do not be offended if my comments do not apply to you. I just want to be sure that new jumpers do not get overly paranoid that they are going to fall out of their rigs. Fly Safe, Brian To the OP & Brian, I am aware that the fall out issue on individual sport rigs is small. The hazard probability of occurrence strongly depends on the jumper-gear match. To ignore that the hazard exists is to bury your head in the sand. The butt strap that I show in my article can be made by any rigger. It's not complicated and only needs one or two measurements. Steering the canopy is facilitated by the butt strap. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doperope 0 #35 March 10, 2012 Interesting, you have really given me something to marinate on here. I have wondered, from time to time, why parachute harnesses did not have a slide out prevention system and climbing harnesses do. http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Climbing/Harnesses/PRD~5025-325/wild-country-syncro-ziplock-harness-unisex.jsp (Can't make "clicky" FML)Bad decisions make good stories!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #36 March 10, 2012 QuoteInteresting, you have really given me something to marinate on here. I have wondered, from time to time, why parachute harnesses did not have a slide out prevention system and climbing harnesses do. http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Climbing/Harnesses/PRD~5025-325/wild-country-syncro-ziplock-harness-unisex.jsp (Can't make "clicky" FML) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spills 0 #37 March 12, 2012 I just got my new wings this weekend and it came with a little bungee. I had to put it on myself but it came from wings. "Handsome" Dave was jumping and I asked him what he thought about it and I got the usual "that should work, haaaahaaahaaa!". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
