372-way formation

[Mirage63 0]

Tony,

Keep the $5.00 and buy yourself a beer when you get over there. Drop me a note and let me know where you are in the formation.

Better yet-save my $5.00 for the 140 ways at z-hills, you can buy me a beer (and act like you know me) and tell me your stories.

GOOD LUCK

Fortson

[Jethers203 0]

I can't believe there is someone with 550 jumps. How did he get that spot? I hope to get on a record some day and would like any info possible.

John D-24352

[Mirage63 0]

1. He/she is a good skydiver
2. He/she jumps with the right people

[flyangel2 2]

What with the advance way of training now a days, i.e.: wind tunnel, good coaching, to me jump numbers don't matter. If the person can fly his/her slot, then put them on.
If you are interested in getting more involved with bigger way formations, check into going to some of the big ways camps that Kate Cooper or Guy Wright put together. Doing the camps is a great learning experience, and if you perform well, you may even get an invitation to be on some kind of event. Most times you'll start out on the "support" team, but with good events, even the "support" team is up in the air continuing to skydive, and waiting for a slot on the event.
Kate wrote a great article for Skydive, I forget what month is was, about how to get on bigger way formations, and once there, what to do.

Fortson, I look forward to seeing you out in Florida, and even though I haven't been invited to share that beer, you can be sure I'll join you

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[bodypilot1 0]

Flyangel2 said it .....

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"Doing the camps is a great learning experience".

This is the best way to get an invite to the BIG ways.
Read Kate's article and send her an email. She would be more than happy to get you on an invite list for the next camp.
If you dont aply yourself and make contacts, I can honestly tell you the invite to the BIG ways will never come.....
Depending on where you jump may mean you have to travel to get on some good jumps also.

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Joyner 0]

I agree with others that previous experience of big-ways is probably the best way to get on BIGGER ways. BUT!!

My take on bigways is that it's not all that difficult from a skills point of view. You don't have to be a skygod to be on a bigway. Basic skills needed are diving (floating), flying your slot and TRACKING.

Other than that the MOST important thing is DISCIPLINE!!!! Flying straight in approaches with no "red zone" violations (crossing someone else's path close to the formation), "sheep doging" your grip (not flying as fast as you can straight to your slot, but instead flying as close to your grip as possible, following that person to the formation). Keep on flying your slot after you take your grip. Being able to think and act as a team also requires discipline. Keeping your cool, even if you know that there are 371 others depending on you to do your job might be a though one!

And then of course there is the "under canopy" part. Most important here is to follow break off procedure, deploying at the correct altitude, and then flying defensively (just as driving your car).

All in all, most of the "skills" many skydivers have at less than 1000 jumps. Discipline is the part many are lacking more than the actual skills.

And also when it comes to bigways the saying "It's not WHAT you know, It's WHO you know that counts!" is more true than ever!

[Ron 7]

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And also when it comes to bigways the saying "It's not WHAT you know, It's WHO you know that counts!" is more true than ever!

And we have a winner....Its who you know, not what you can do most times that gets the invite.

I know plenty of folks with marginal experience (Read: experience, not skills) And some with marginal skills that were on the 120 ways in Zhills. But they did the camps and did well, and drank with the right people and got on.

Its how it works. You have to spend your time and prove yourself.

If I would not do a skydive without a CYPRES, I don't do it with one. And I would not do a 100+ way without a CYPRES. But then again I have already done them.

For me you guys can have the big ways..give me 4way any day.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Joyner 0]

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For me you guys can have the big ways..give me 4way any day.

Right on!! But I do enjoy bigways too, it's just that it gets old pretty quick! I've done a couple of bigway camps, and by the third day I've had about enough. Don't get me wrong, I'd jump on an opportunity to be on the 372 way!

[rehmwa 2]

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For me you guys can have the big ways..give me 4way any day.

Right on!! But I do enjoy bigways too, it's just that it gets old pretty quick!

GO!!
hurry hurry hurry hurry
(or even worse, slowly follow the overly cautious guy's foot in front of you)
lurk lurk lurk lurk
dock
wait wait wait wait
HURRY HURRY HURRY HURRY
open
dodge the idiots
land
walk

all the excitement of tandems with the danger of overcrowded skies (just kidding, completing anything gives a big team-based feeling of accomplishment)

HOWEVER, you can't beat the visual of being inside a great big formation. I'd still rather do 4-way, though.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[flyangel2 2]

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I know plenty of folks with marginal experience (Read: experience, not skills) And some with marginal skills that were on the 120 ways in Zhills. But they did the camps and did well, and drank with the right people and got on.

Its how it works. You have to spend your time and prove yourself.

OMG, I can't believe this. I agree with Ron.
Example: Last year for the two point 120 ways, I really wanted a slot. I have some experience on big ways, but Guy and Boxman didn't know who I was and had never jumped with me. Enter my buddy and friend Patrick. He lives in Florida and was doing lots of camps with both the LOs. I contacted the LO via e-mail, listing the events that I have been on, and the LOs from those events that they could contact. Patrick too let them know that I could hold my own. Without ever having jumped with the LOs, I got a slot on the event. Was it because of Patrick, or because of my past experience? I think it's both. Now this year I have been invited to attend again, because I had proven myself to Guy and Boxman.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Ron 7]

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OMG, I can't believe this. I agree with Ron

Well sometimes you can be sensible

But I was not refering to you...I know several folks on it that had around 500 jumps and had never been on anything bigger than 40way. But they did well at the camps and drank with the right folks. Others with more experience, and had done the same camps didn't get an invite.

Skydiving is a social sport...Many times you will get selected for things not based on skill.

Its the "Kiss the right ass" metality that makes me stay away from big ways. I have seen way to many folks on a big way JUST because they knew people.

That and the simple fact I don't think they have a big enough cost and risk to reward factor for me.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[flyangel2 2]

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But I was not refering to you...

Oh, I know that.

Also, don't you think that the personality of the jumpers have some kind of influence if they get a slot on the dives or not? What I mean by that, a person can be shit hot, fly any slot, do a great job, but because he/she can't keep his/her mouth shut in the dirt dives or in the debriefs, they don't get an invitation.
Keeping the mouth zipped is always good. Don't let the LOs notice you. Stand and be quiet, don't talk unless talked to.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Ron 7]

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Also, don't you think that the personality of the jumpers have some kind of influence if they get a slot on the dives or not?

Totally agree. The trick is to NOT be noticed on the dirtdive, dive, debrief. But to BE noticed while hanging out afterwards.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 1,623]

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But I was not refering to you...

Oh, I know that.


I think he was referring to me


Also, don't you think that the personality of the jumpers have some kind of influence if they get a slot on the dives or not? What I mean by that, a person can be shit hot, fly any slot, do a great job, but because he/she can't keep his/her mouth shut in the dirt dives or in the debriefs, they don't get an invitation.
Keeping the mouth zipped is always good. Don't let the LOs notice you. Stand and be quiet, don't talk unless talked to.

I know one very good and experienced skydiver that didn't get a slot on the 120 way sequential because she was consistently late to dirt dives at the try-outs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Mirage63 0]

It's interesting to me the different paths people take to get on the big ways.

Since I come from a small dz my only option was to travel.

It took me:
1. Tony and Kate big way camp (May of 2001)
2. Pop's at Eloy
3. Pop's at Eloy (again)
4. Texas state record attempt
5. Pop's at Perris
6. Z-hills 2-point record (April 2003)

so (if my math is right) it took me +25 months to get my completion in my log book. Assuming that each event to around 5 days thats 30 days off from work and god knows how much money.

Funny thing happened along the way, I went from loving big ways to hating them to loving them.

At times I was sitting around listening to all the other people talking about there number of +100 completions (and there are a boat load of people out there who have LOT's of them) and it drove me NUT's. Hell I just wanted ONE and then I was never going to do another. To much pressure, way to many ego's, and time away.

Then I got more comfortable, realized I wasn't going to stop till I got it and started to really meet the people. I use to get mad when I meet someone who had 300 jumps and had already do a completed 100 way. But after awhile it hit me that the whole thing was about getting to know other people.

Long story to say that sometime a longer path to a goal can in the end be better in some ways.

sorry to get off topic, the thread just got me thinking..........

Fortson

[Ron 7]

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I think he was referring to me

I was not referring to you Doc. We all know you would just physics it all out and make the LO feel stupid and he would have to let you on.

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I know one very good and experienced skydiver that didn't get a slot on the 120 way sequential because she was consistently late to dirt dives at the try-outs

And I once got cut from the Javelin 110 way since we needed to bring our gear to the debrief. The packer didn't have it packed yet, so I didn't bring it. The LO had buddy lurking so the LO cut me and put him on. However since Derrick invited me, he put me back and I got a better slot anyway.

Perfect example of the politics....The LO didn't care that my gear was not packed. He was just looking to cut someone to let a buddy on.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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At times I was sitting around listening to all the other people talking about there number of +100 completions (and there are a boat load of people out there who have LOT's of them) and it drove me NUT's. Hell I just wanted ONE and then I was never going to do another. To much pressure, way to many ego's, and time away.

I think everyone should try to do one. There is a coolness to being in the air with 100 other people. When it builds and everyone knows it..There is a very cool feel to it almost like an electric charge......Then break off comes and all hell breaks loose.

I don't do them simply for the fact that they are expensive, take time off of work, and are more dangerous than 4way. I can do a good 4way training camp for a big way attempt.

But then again I have done them.

Javelin 110. I was 24 and had 600 jumps.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Mirage63 0]

"Javelin 110. I was 24 and had 600 jumps."

Surely your not counting a 110 way as "big way", besides ANYBODY can do a four way.

The cold hard fact is that for some people big ways are easy to get to the upper levels than four way.

Don't get me wrong good four way is MUCH, MUCH harder-they aren't even close. But if you can't get into the four way scene (I can't train two weekends a month but I can plan a trip to do big way) big ways are a fun way to be different.

Plus it watching one come together is cool

[Ron 7]

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Surely your not counting a 110 way as "big way", besides ANYBODY can do a four way

Oh geeze...Well it was then. Now I consider anything that takes more than one plane as big.

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The cold hard fact is that for some people big ways are easy to get to the upper levels than four way

Yep, thats why they are so popular.

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Don't get me wrong good four way is MUCH, MUCH harder-they aren't even close. But if you can't get into the four way scene (I can't train two weekends a month but I can plan a trip to do big way) big ways are a fun way to be different

I can train two weekends a mth, and the cost of a big way and those two weekends is close to the same....So I can do 10 big ways, or 30 4ways for about the same cost. FOR ME the 4way is better.

I have told folks that when I get old I plan on doing more big ways

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Plus it watching one come together is cool

Cool, scary...same thing. It is neat when it works, and exciting when it does not work.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Mirage63 0]

Hell Ron -you are OLD

[jlmiracle 7]

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I know one very good and experienced skydiver that didn't get a slot on the 120 way sequential because she was consistently late to dirt dives at the try-outs.

That is actually a very good reason to not get invited. If you can't or won't give 100%, be there on time, commit to the whole time the event will take, then why should they give that person a slot.

I had to try out for the 1999 Women World Record. I met Kate and Tony in San Carlos Mexico and Tony suggested that I try out so I did. I went to Sebastian for 124-way and then to Chicago for 100 ways. I was given a slot on the alpha team after Sebastian and was give a slot on the formation after Chicago.

If they don't know who you are, you won't get an invite.

Now, Ron, stop with the 4-way is better crap. Skydiving has enough division with different disciplines. We don't need to divide up the RW people even further.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Ron 7]

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Hell Ron -you are OLD

Im only 31..I only ACT old.

Its not my fault that big ways scare the shit out of me....They are all out to kill you.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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Now, Ron, stop with the 4-way is better crap.

I never said it was better (Even though it IS)..I said it was better for ME.
Big ways can be cool...If you like getting the crap scared out of you.

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Skydiving has enough division with different disciplines. We don't need to divide up the RW people even further

Oh don't get me started on the freaks

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jlmiracle 7]

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Big ways can be cool...If you like getting the crap scared out of you.

Isn't this why we skydive - to get the crap scared out of us?

I get kicked in the head alot when I do 4-way - I'm changing my slot or maybe I will do big-way all the time, or I guess I could always just do solo's.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Mirage63 0]

Jeez, I'm sorry last time I saw you..........well you LOOKED a lot older. Must be all that four way stress