riggerrob 558 #26 January 8, 2003 Quote: "If the rigger that did the work doesn't make a note of it on the reserve card, then how would the FAA find out? I bring this up not as a way of doing illegal rigging work and how to get away with it but because I recently had to send a Javelin back to Sun Path. It was an old one, but in terrific shape. It was brought to me for a re-pack, but I noticed that the main closing loop toungue grommet was facing the D-bag and had a plastic stiffener in it, so that the SB couldn't be applied. Sun Path replaced the toungue, but made no notes on the reserve card that I was careful to include with the rig or on the container's data label. I expected them to make a notation on the card and the container's label indicating the work performed." end quote. Rigging Innovations rarely notes factory repairs on packing data cards. R.I. claims that a note attached to archived production records is enough to satisfy TSO requirements. On the other hand I have seen updates and Service Bulletins done by Senior Riggers that were never written down. Mind you those updates were done so neatly that they were indistinguishable from factory sewing. Hint, if you are going to "exceed your certificate" do it so neatly that people cannot tell the difference between your sewing and factory sewing. That is ultimately the best way to cover your butt. I too have an old Javelin - with a plastic stiffener in the main loop anchor-, but the owner is too cheap to mail it to the factory. Since I am a Master Rigger (with extensive experience at container repairs) I plan to update the main loop anchor myself. Now let's start a flame fest about whether I should copy Javelin's current production standard or install a Wings style main loop anchor. I believe that the Wings style anchor is more snag-resistant and as an arrogant Master Rigger I am allowed to "substitute similar TSOed components." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #27 January 8, 2003 Quote Quote: Now let's start a flame fest about whether I should copy Javelin's current production standard or install a Wings style main loop anchor. I believe that the Wings style anchor is more snag-resistant and as an arrogant Master Rigger I am allowed to "substitute similar TSOed components." OK. I'd be hard pressed to interpret "substitute ... components" as including sewn in features. Bring it up at the Rigger Forum in Jacksonville. It out to be good for about an hour.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #28 January 8, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The FAA defines a major repair (or alteration) as something - that if done improperly - could interferr with the inflation or flying characteristics of the parachute. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, if you take that to its logical (illogical?) conclusion, only a Master Rigger can pack a main. I don't think even the FAA has thought of that (yet). Packing a main is NOT a repair or alteration to the harness/container/reserve system... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,644 #29 January 8, 2003 New question: I have some frayed stitching on the flap of my main D-bag. Can I stitch it myself, or must a rigger do it? (I'm not a rigger).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadDog 0 #30 January 9, 2003 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The FAA defines a major repair (or alteration) as something - that if done improperly - could interferr with the inflation or flying characteristics of the parachute. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, if you take that to its logical (illogical?) conclusion, only a Master Rigger can pack a main. I don't think even the FAA has thought of that (yet). Packing a main is NOT a repair or alteration to the harness/container/reserve system... Really?? I'll bet you know someone who works for the FAA. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #31 January 9, 2003 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The FAA defines a major repair (or alteration) as something - that if done improperly - could interferr with the inflation or flying characteristics of the parachute. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, if you take that to its logical (illogical?) conclusion, only a Master Rigger can pack a main. I don't think even the FAA has thought of that (yet). Packing a main is NOT a repair or alteration to the harness/container/reserve system... Hmm the dudes got a point... Its not a repair but if packed improperly "could interfear with the inflation and flying characteristics". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #32 January 9, 2003 <QuoteNew question: I have some frayed stitching on the flap of my main D-bag. Can I stitch it myself, or must a rigger do it? (I'm not a rigger).> Legally, no a non-rigger is not allowed to re-sew/over-sew anything on your d-bag. Officially over sews are reserved for FAA Senior Riggers. Heck they can even oversew hip joints on Vectors (as per Service Bullletin XYZ, yada, yada). If you plan on re-sewing your own d-bag, do it so neatly that people hav difficulty differentiating between your sewing and factory sewing, ie. use the same color of E-thread at the same number of stitches per inch, closely following the old stitiching, following the factory practice of back stitching at both ends of the repair, etc. But don't melt the severed ends of the thread because Relative Workshops does not melt ends. He! He! The bottom line is, if you are going to "exceed your certificate" do it so neatly that people cannot distinguish your sewing from factory sewing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #33 January 9, 2003 QuoteReally?? I'll bet you know someone who works for the FAA. My Ex wifes family is full of em....two heads at FSDO's in IL, and two who work in Kankakee FAA regional office....so yes...you could say I know them. Two of them are also Senior riggers...and would NOT agree with your idea that packing a main is an alteration or repair of the harness/container/reserve system. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadDog 0 #34 January 10, 2003 QuoteQuoteReally?? I'll bet you know someone who works for the FAA. My Ex wifes family is full of em....two heads at FSDO's in IL, and two who work in Kankakee FAA regional office....so yes...you could say I know them. Two of them are also Senior riggers...and would NOT agree with your idea that packing a main is an alteration or repair of the harness/container/reserve system. I don't mind you putting words in the mouths of your ex-in-laws, but don't put them in mine. You are the one who added the words "harness/container/reserve system", not me. And I really think you are missing the big picture here; meaning the fact that it was a sarcastic comment that was meant to stimulate thought and amuse but was not meant as an expression of an opinion or a conclusion. I deal with the interpretation of laws and regulations on a daily basis, and things are seldom black and white, especially when the laws and regulations are written by a committee of people with limited knowledge of the subject and then interpreted by people with even less knowledge. Logic may or may not prevail. I guess the same is true here in the forums. Anyway, blue skies to you. Time to bury this thread? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #35 January 10, 2003 I think the point being missed here is that the FAA is only concerned about TSO'd components of a rig...that is, the Harness, Reserve deployment system and the Reserve Canopy. Other than that, you can pretty much do what you want, as long as the mfg. doesn't say you can't. Now, this doesn't mean that it would be smart to install a Cordura BOC. As an aftermarket part, I'm not sure it will work as well as if it were built in (as on the Reflex). Spandex does the job just fine. Just keep tabs on it. We replace BOCs all the time, it's not a big deal and it goes a long way to staying safe if you decide to jump a throw-out. Personally, this argument is just another reason I jump a pull-out...less maintenance... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #36 January 10, 2003 Wait a minute!! What do you mean a non-rigger cannot sew on their own D-bag??? There is nothing ANYWHERE, that I'm aware of, that says ANYTHING about work being done on non-emergency parts. You can buy aftermarket pilot chutes, d-bags, risers, whatever...and they're all perfectly legal to use. None of those parts are certified, which means they can be made by ANYONE, yourself included. Continue that line of thought and you can certainly sew on your own d-bag...but not your freebag, as it's TSO'd. If you're so inclined you can jump a bedsheet tied on with shoelaces...as long as the system you're intending to use a your back up (ie - not used intentionally on this jump) is TSO'd and packed in accordance with the mfg. instruction by a properly rated rigger! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
