nepalaw 0 #1 February 23, 2006 I'm just wondering what people think about the Stiletto vs. the Crossfire2 vs. the Katana. I currently am jumping a Stiletto 150 with a wing loading of 1.6, and I am looking to downsize. Right now the Katana is probably not an option due to the fact that its largest production size is 120, but I'd still like to know how people compare them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kimblair13 0 #2 February 23, 2006 Fast, Faster, and Fastest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #3 February 23, 2006 Any way you slice it, the Xfire and Katana will dive almost twice as far as a Stiletto. Keep that in mind if you are going to downsize, and switch canopies. I know they make some bigger Xfires, like 139 or 129, those might be good. The Katana is pretty hard core, and going straight to a 120 might be a bad idea. If you jump one of the Xfires for awhile, then maybe go to the Katana from there. All of this is dependent on your not being a dumbass. Ask some of the swoopers at your DZ (and loook for the older ones who have been around awhile), and ask them what they think, and in terms of your abilities. Maybe have them watch a few landings to see where you're at now, becasue that has everything to do with what canopy to consider. You could always just buy a Stiletto 135 and jump that too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #4 February 23, 2006 If those are the only canopies you want to try, go with the Crossfire 139 / 129, don't go straight to the Katana. If you're at 1.6 on the 150, you'll be really close to 2.0 on the Katana 120 Have you tried any other types? I came from a Sabre2 150, demoed a Stiletto 150 and did about 100 jumps on a Stiletto 135 and finally decided on another Sabre2, this time a 135.. Try out as many different canopies as possible, and then make up your mind.. I'll preach for the Sabre2 135 over the Stiletto 135 when it comes to learning to swoop.. (The S2 has a longer recovery arc) Also the Crossfires are really good parachutes, but I havent flown one yet so I can't give you an opinion on those.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #5 February 23, 2006 well having flown 2 out of three I would say crossfire2 over stilletto in a heart beat... but that is such a personal choice go out and fly em although the katana in its largest size might be a bit of a jump for you at your jump numbers wouldnt want to have to sell you one of my "got titanium?" shirts Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #6 February 23, 2006 QuoteI know they make some bigger Xfires, like 139 or 129, those might be good. You can get a Crossfire2 in sizes up to a 189. There's also the Samurai, available in sizes up to a 170. edit: and I hate to be the fun police, but 400 jumps, 100 jumps/year, and wanting to go higher than a 1.5 wingloading is a scary combination. You may have difficulty getting a manufacturer to sell you a small XF2 or Katana without references from folk who know you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #7 February 23, 2006 Like someone else here has said, please be carefull in your selection of canopies to fly. No canopy is safe but some are more aggressive than others. Personally I believe the differences between the Katana Crossfire2 mostly boil down to personal preference. I dont think on is "more extreme" than another. It all depends on your flying style and what you want out of the wing. Personally and heavily biased I prefer the Crossfire2. Fly both (if they are both available in sizes you feel comfortable jumping) and see for your self. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nepalaw 0 #8 February 23, 2006 Thanks to all for your input so far. Even though I don't plan on downsizing til much later this season, after a couple more hundred jumps, I'm really interested in people's opinions on the differences in the flight characteristics of the three canopies. The katana is not a possibility for me at this point, but I've heard some rumors that PD will be making them in larger sizes in the near future. Although I know the best way to truly know a canopy is to fly it (and I love the demo programs), everyone's opinions are helpful, especially because our DZ does not have many Crossfire or Katana flyers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #9 February 23, 2006 QuoteThe katana is not a possibility for me at this point, but I've heard some rumors that PD will be making them in larger sizes in the near future. The "real soon now" rumor has been around since at least 2004. Don't hold your breath . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaggyFord 0 #10 February 25, 2006 Quote edit: and I hate to be the fun police, but 400 jumps, 100 jumps/year, and wanting to go higher than a 1.5 wingloading is a scary combination. You may have difficulty getting a manufacturer to sell you a small XF2 or Katana without references from folk who know you... I bought a Katana 107, loaded at 1.8 when I had about 500 jumps. No one has ever asked for my experience level when buying a canopy. Previous canopy was a Crossfire 109. Katana is sssooo much better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vidiot 0 #11 February 25, 2006 QuotePrevious canopy was a Crossfire 109. Katana is sssooo much better. Why? Just curious...My Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShaggyFord 0 #12 February 27, 2006 Well, I guess I forgot to mention that it was a Crossfire 1. The Katana has just as soft, or softer openings, the toggle response is much better, and the flare is stronger. The only downfall, if you consider it a downfall, is the Katana has a much steeper, longer dive than the original Crossfire. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #13 February 27, 2006 Thats why I believe the Crossfire2 has a much broader range. It is not as steep. Anyou can get it to dive just as much. The flare power on the Crossfire2 is amazing. Personally I think the front riser pressure on the Katana is used like a crutch when it comes to learning your approach and diving techniques. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenkincb00 0 #14 February 27, 2006 QuotePersonally I think the front riser pressure on the Katana is used like a crutch when it comes to learning your approach and diving techniques. You actually believe this? so is the lite front riser pressure of a Xaos in comparison to a VX a crutch? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #15 February 27, 2006 When people say it dives more because of the front riser pressure. Just because I cant hold a front riser down as long doesnt mean I cant make a canopy dive. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenkincb00 0 #16 February 27, 2006 QuoteWhen people say it dives more because of the front riser pressure. Just because I cant hold a front riser down as long doesnt mean I cant make a canopy dive. ok, but that doesn't answer the question. Do you or do you not believe that lite front riser pressure is a crutch? Because I believe it to be more of a "tool" and a useful one at that, not a crutch. And I would venture to say that most canopy pilots/manufactures would agree I haven't seen a manufacture advertise "highest front riser pressure on the market" as a marketing tool yet, I have seen it the other way around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #17 February 27, 2006 No but it is only one tool. And to get that tool I feel you sacrifice overall performance. But when a newer swooper can get any turn to the ground regardless of ability of set up skill, it creates "lazyness". Again this is just my personal opinion. Front riser pressure has never meant that much to me. I jump a canopy with probably the highest front riser pressure around. And I would not change that because I love the way the canopy flies. If another canopy could do what this does with lighter, I wouldnt complain, but if it sacrificed preformance, I would. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #18 February 27, 2006 I'm in today agreement with your stance on this subject. Virtually all canopies will load up regardless of their size/design and there is so much more to getting that canopy diving than just pulling down on the front risers. Ultimately it comes down to how well the pilot knows their canopy in the different weather and altitude environments we jump in. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenkincb00 0 #19 February 27, 2006 But just because you let up because of pressure doesn't mean the canopy stops diving and you can't just hold the fronts down because of the lighter front riser pressure. And if you do you actually slow the canopy. I know when you hold a riser down past a certain point on my Katana I can feel it actually slow down. Letting up actually serges the canopy this is why your argument to me doesn't make sense. you can't just "get any turn to the ground because of the riser pressure" that is just total bs. The canopy is actually more responsive so you have to hone your set up even more it makes it more challenging for the perfect set up IMHO. If it was that simple then no one would jump a VX everyone would jump a Xaos for the margin of error that it would provide. and I wouldn't be jumping a katana I'd be jumping a XF2. Final point, if any1 gets "lazy" under a Katana or XF2 they will be injuried or worse, they are not X-braced but they are fast diving machines and just because you let up doesn't mean the canopy will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #20 February 27, 2006 Most of the people I see jumping Katanas use the front risers like a steering wheel. And they hold them to get it to the ground. I never said it was efficient. But it is real. Its not BS. I could do a 270 on a Katana at 1000 feet and get it to the ground. I dont mean lazy dangerous, I mean they can turn at any altitude and get to the ground. I had a freind have this happen to him and was super disappointed in a Velo! He wanted his Katana back. Since then he has refined his setups and remarked on how little he had to do to swoop his Katana. He also said how limiting it was. Pople might not jump the canopies with the lighter front riser pressure because you lose a lot to get it. Front riser pressure isnt everything. Every canopy is designed with certain physical limitations. It's all give and take. I personally think the Katana to steep to compare in overall performance with some other canopies. But people who do a lot of mostly front riser approaches love them. But they dont swoop as far as others on more well rounded canopies. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #21 February 28, 2006 What would you consider a more well-rounded canopy? /just curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #22 February 28, 2006 I think the Crossfire2 is more well rounded canopy than the Katana. Not well rounded as in everyone should jump one. Well rounded as in it doesnt sacrifice on thing to get another. It does everything very well. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenkincb00 0 #23 March 1, 2006 QuoteI could do a 270 on a Katana at 1000 feet and get it to the ground. I would like to see video of that, I think you are way over exagerating both the lightness of the front riser pressure and the canopies ability to dive. I don't know how many Katanas you have jumped nor their sizes or wing loading but I haven't had that experience on my katana. The wing recovers much quicker and the riser pressure does build to the point that you can't effectively hold the risers down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #24 March 1, 2006 At a higher WL, with a slow 270, it could happen. 1.45 is pretty low for a Katana, get it up around 1.8 or 1.9, and it will burn through some alti. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #25 March 1, 2006 I jumped a 120 loaded at about 2.0 and could do 3 360's in one direction and then start in the other direction. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
