josheezammit 0 #1 February 14, 2006 ok kids, how does a crossfire 2 perform vs, a same size sabre 2? How big of a difference is there between these two canopies? Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 February 14, 2006 Its a significant difference, especially when comparing recovery arcs. That applies to toggle turns as well as front riser turns. The control stroke is a bit longer on the XF2 as well. What size are you looking at and at wing loading?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #3 February 14, 2006 Hey Dave, I am looking at a Crossfire 2 189 loaded at 1.49 to 1.51 depending on how much beer i have had and how close to the weekend Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 February 14, 2006 That's a significant canopy and wingloading; however, knowing you I don't see why you couldn't jump it. I would fully recommend that you do a handful of altitude clear and pulls to work it out. Are you signed up for Scott Miller's course happening at my DZ in March?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #5 February 14, 2006 i will see if i can get that weekend off and thanks dave! I will do a ton of Hop and pop's when i get her, i shall name her princess, cause like any girl she can make or break you, any other advice let me know! Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 February 14, 2006 Instead of looking to guys like me, look to guys like Eric Butts. He's one of the best canopy pilots in TX and he's at your DZ! I'm a newbie trying to become a very competitive swooper. It should also be said that as with any canopy size or type change, you should be very careful. Don't be an idiot with the canopy, fly it conservatively and set yourself up with success with the type of jump you do (i.e. don't let your first few jumps on a canopy be jumps where you will land off or open low in traffic). You know, common sense type things that a lot of people don't tend to pay attention to sometimes.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #7 February 14, 2006 What weekend in March is the course? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #8 February 14, 2006 QuoteI'm a newbie No you're not. QuoteIt should also be said that as with any canopy size or type change, you should be very careful. Don't be an idiot with the canopy, fly it conservatively and set yourself up with success with the type of jump you do (i.e. don't let your first few jumps on a canopy be jumps where you will land off or open low in traffic). Agreed ... in fact it's a good idea to dedicate some jumps to canopy control when flying a new wing. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #9 February 14, 2006 The XF2 is a rocket, massively different to a sabre 2. A freind of mine is recovering from a broken hip after botching a landing with a XF2 at a similar WL. He had over 700 jumps. I don't know what your skills are or what courses you have taken, but a few people here seem to vouch for you, which gives you a head start. Please be carefull and get training. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #10 February 14, 2006 I told him the same thing. With his approach to canopies being the way it is, i feel confident that he will show her the proper respect to the new learning curve. Meatbomb, this means more solo's, not two way h&p's taken down to 3K Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #11 February 14, 2006 OK I truly can't wait, Jeff as Always, thank you for your confidence in me, I promise to pull right out the door Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #12 February 14, 2006 Quote What weekend in March is the course? I don't remember, but if you e-mail Kathy or call the DZ you'll get the scoop. [email protected] 979-778-5867--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mikki_ZH 0 #13 February 14, 2006 My advice, don't listen to anyone who tells you a XF2 loaded 1.5 is fast. See enclose some pictures of my last landing with a XF2 loaded 1.5.. It happend 4 month ago and I'm still recovering... By the way, my last canopy was a sabre 2...Michi (#1068) hsbc/gba/sba www.swissbaseassociation.ch www.michibase.ch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #14 February 14, 2006 Look. Any canopy can put you into the dirt at a high rate of speed. A sabre 2 will break you just as fast as a Crossfire 2 will. The best thing to do is to not fuck up when flying canopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #15 February 14, 2006 I am in definite agreement, I will make my risk as calculated as possible Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #16 February 14, 2006 QuoteThe XF2 is a rocket, massively different to a sabre 2. Agreed! I upsized to a XF2-129 for a few dozen jumps and that thing is a machine. Not a VX, but you can make it go the distance. Then again, look at the guys swooping their asses off under Saber2's, doing better then some under x-braced canopies. You'll see that it's not the canopy... it's the pilot. QuoteA freind of mine is recovering from a broken hip after botching a landing with a XF2 at a similar WL. He had over 700 jumps. Needless to say that he could have been under a PD190 and have the same results, right? can happen under ANY canopy...SoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #17 February 14, 2006 DID NOTSoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #18 February 14, 2006 QuoteNeedless to say that he could have been under a PD190 and have the same results, right? can happen under ANY canopy... So we may as well start training students on crossfires right? Same results, can happen under any canopy...... Just my opinion, but some canopies require more skill than others in order to survive the landings. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #19 February 14, 2006 QuoteSo we may as well start training students on crossfires right? Same results, can happen under any canopy...... Perhaps you're right... But consider this: You remember when Roger Nelson put his students under Safires like 6-7 years ago? Everyone thought it was a huge mistake, SEMI ELIPTICAL FOR STUDENTS??! They will surely kill themselves... Or when some DZ put thier students on "hot" square canopies many years ago? That was before my time, but i heard everyone thought it was going to kill them too. Seems that every progressive step forward meets some type of opposition from the more inert or perhaps "more" safety oriented population. You chose how you want to look at it. QuoteJust my opinion, but some canopies require more skill than others in order to survive the landings. Of course, no student should EVER be on a canopy he cant handle! I agree with you. But if a man with 400 jumps is "surviving" his landings, may be he should consider another activity? Edited to add that i am not referring to the originator of the post when i say itSoFPiDaRF - School of Fast Progress in Downsizing and Radical Flying. Because nobody knows your skills better than you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #20 February 14, 2006 Maybe you are right I dunno, but as I said earlier, the big plus point for the original poster was that a few people here with experience vouched for him. Also it appears he has already, or will be, taking a canopy control course. All plus points in his favour. The minus point is when you look at Brian Germains wingloading chart. Still, hope he has fun with it. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #22 February 14, 2006 Frost the way that i understood it i was within the wingloading parameters of the bigairsportz.com list? If I have overlooked one or more factors that applies to my situation please let me knowEdited to add: I just read the WHOLE chart and footnotes and I see what you refer too, thank you for you diligence Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #23 February 14, 2006 why doesnt anyone mention that things go wrong a lot faster too ;-) For Instance... 2.5 line twists which immediately puts you on your back looking at the sky doing rotations losing altitude quickly... not saying you shoudlnt fly one...just throwing that out there...I love mine to death loading it abround 1.6 Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #24 February 14, 2006 Quote2.5 line twists which immediately puts you on your back looking at the sky doing rotations losing altitude quickly... I have shown him the video of my XF2 doing exactly that. We have also gone over extensive training of deployment sequence/technique and training on habits and body position during deployment. Trust me when i say he is asking all theright questions of all the right people while choosing canopies. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josheezammit 0 #25 February 14, 2006 Just to give y'all insight to who Jeff is mentioning here QuoteTrust me when i say he is asking all the right questions of all the right people while choosing canopies. I go to people like Eric Butts, Jeff Standley, Perry Perkins, and Dave Smithers. They don't always agree with each other, but they all think that the xf 2 is a good choice. Ahh, what a wonderful world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
