How does a X-fire 2 perform if slightly underloaded?

[BlindBrick 0]

I should be hitting 300 jumps around next April and am considering increasing winglaoding at that point to about 1.35. This is slightly less than the suggested minimum for the X-Fire 2, and I was wondering what kind of things I could expect if I loaded one at that level?

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[FreeflyKiwi 0]

Although on the lower side I dont think you will have any problems.

I have over 400 jumps on my Xfire 2 and love it. I have nothing bad to say about them and the openings are superb.

Dale

two time New Zealand gumboot throwing champ.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Now if you're trying to max out a Crossfire2 that's a different story, but don't ever let people tell you that you need to load up Crossfire2 canopies to jump them. They're still very sporty and fun to jump at any wing loading.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[bmason81 0]

I have put about 100 jumps on my 149 loaded @1.2 and it still cooks in so there is no reason to push it.

pull low, fly fast, PLF!

[amir1967 0]

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I should be hitting 300 jumps around next April and am considering increasing winglaoding at that point to about 1.35. This is slightly less than the suggested minimum for the X-Fire 2, and I was wondering what kind of things I could expect if I loaded one at that level?

-Blind

Hi
if you jump now safire-2 269 @ 1.23 you'r exit wight is about 330
to get W.L. of 1.35 the canopy has to be 240 or so
I think they dont make the crossfire in that size but again maybe I'm wrong

AM67

[BlindBrick 0]

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if you jump now safire-2 269 @ 1.23 you'r exit wight is about 330
to get W.L. of 1.35 the canopy has to be 240 or so
I think they dont make the crossfire in that size but again maybe I'm wrong

They will make canopies in a non-standard size if you ask, that's how I got my Safire II. AFAIK, unitl I asked, the biggest they'd ever made was a 239.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[kansasskydiver 0]

All I can say is overloading a xfire2 isn't worth it, you'll really notice it's not performing as well as it could be

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[meatbomb 0]

overloading? or did you mean underloading??

---
Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii!
Piccies

[Casquito 0]

I notice many similar posts in other forums regarding underloading aggressive canopies for some reason.
Why? I'd personally rather fly a canopy that opens well and flies well (eg Pilot, Safire, etc) at the wing loading it was designed for than fly an aggresive canopy with twitchier openings at low loadings.
Isn't it like driving a Ferrari Enzo slowly? What's the point? If it's just an ego thing to fly a "high performance elliptical" then it seems like a high price to pay. Why not fly better behaved canopies to their limits first before subjecting oneself to the idiosyncracies and risks of aggressive canopies if you can't take advantage of them... which is tough at wingloadings that low.
Or is it because there is so much emphasis (rightly so) put on not advancing wingloading too quickly that people think another option for "performance" is to fly an aggressive canopy at low loadings?
I just don't understand the mindset there.
I'm sure a skilled pilot could spank me on a Sabre2 against my Katana. I think learning the skill to fly a canopy well, not changing canopy designs is the path to performance.
My two cents, but what do I know at this stage in my learning...

[BlindBrick 0]

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I notice many similar posts in other forums regarding underloading aggressive canopies for some reason.
Why?

I can't speak for everyone, but I do have a very clear idea why I want to go to a lightly loaded X-Fire 2.

I am a big guy who flies a 269 sf Safire 2 right now. I'd call it the perfect canopy for my current skill level if it wasn't for one thing. Safire 2's tend to have high front riser pressure, and when you combine that with the sheer size of my canopy, and a moderate wing loading, they are virtually impossible.

I have a very definite goal of one day becoming a very high performance canopy pilot doing high performance landings. I feel that learning front risers is very crucial to that. After discussing this with my CC mentors, I feel that at this point in my progression, a lightly loaded Crossifre 2 is likely my best bet. The light loading will would be in line with my skill level while the lighter riser pressure should counteract the sheer size of the wing and thus allow me to begin learning front riser techniques.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[Canuck 0]

You will find the front riser pressure as high, if not higher, on a Crossfire 2 as you do on your Safire 2. So there goes that.

Find ways to work the front risers of your Safire - it's do-able, assuming some of your body weight is due to muscle...

Canuck

[br0k3n 0]

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Safire 2's tend to have high front riser pressure,

I just did a bunch of jumps recently on a Safire 2 107, and first off how nice are the openings, I thought I had a streamer at first it snivelled for that long..

Anyway as far as front riser pressure goes, That and my current Safire 119 has very light front riser presure.

The one thing however with the safire is that it doesnt dive, as soon as you let off those risers it will plane out. which means to maintain your speed for a swoop you have to come in on fronts all the way to almost 15 - 20 ft...

Its more then likely it is the size of the canopy that is making the front riser pressure high, not the type.

How do you find the front riser pressure when applying it from a full brakes, as apposed to a full speed?? Try going into full brakes, then as you release the brakes apply a front riser turn.... see how that goes

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[BlindBrick 0]

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Why not downsize to a smaller Safire first???

Things in my size have to be custom built. With the exception of you and Canuck, everyone's told me that the Crossfire 2 has significantly lower riser pressure than an equally sized Safire 2. I only have enough money for one new canopy. If I get the smaller Safire 2 and it retains the high riser pressure, then I'm in roughly the same boat, as I'm in now, of not progressing in a crucial area of my discipline.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[br0k3n 0]

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Why not downsize to a smaller Safire first???

Things in my size have to be custom built. With the exception of you and Canuck, everyone's told me that the Crossfire 2 has significantly lower riser pressure than an equally sized Safire 2. I only have enough money for one new canopy. If I get the smaller Safire 2 and it retains the high riser pressure, then I'm in roughly the same boat, as I'm in now, of not progressing in a crucial area of my discipline.

-Blind

All im saying is that i have a lot of jumps on a Safire 134, 119 and 107 all of which have low front riser pressure. Thats why if you are experiencing high pressure then it is probably down to the shear size of your canopy...

Now it would be nice if it was possible for you to demo a bunch of canopies, but thats seems unlikely, so what do you do. Risk buying a crossfire with the hope that pressure is less?? I dont know. your call...

At what point do you find the riser pressure to high to hold??? can you do a 90 turn from full drive?? can you do a 180 from full drive?? what about from half brakes and full brakes??

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[chachi 0]

i think you should demo the canopies before you buy. if you cant pull your risers down you need to find alternate methods to help you. ie. flaring before initiation to relieve the pressure or using your harness input a lot more. get some coaching.

[BlindBrick 0]

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At what point do you find the riser pressure to high to hold??? can you do a 90 turn from full drive?? can you do a 180 from full drive?? what about from half brakes and full brakes??

Right now, I can pull down the risers less than an inch. The resulting turn rate is less than what I see with harness shifting. I've also tried the brake trick which yielded a very minimal improvement. I'm am not the most in shape guy, but I have no trouble doing front riser turns on larger canopies. There is just something about my current setup that makes it impossble. This canopy just wants to fly straight and level. I can bury a toggle and physically lock my arm straight down, and at about 300 degrees in, despite my arm being locked and me expending all my stregnth to resist, the canopy begins to lever my arm back up.

-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."

[jakee 1,280]

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Safire 2's tend to have high front riser pressure,

Eh?

I've got to agree with Brok3n here, I demo'd a Safire2 150 for 20 jumps and it had the lowest front riser pressure of any canopy I've tried, so much so it felt like I needed to pull it to my chest to get a decent turn rate. How many other canopies have you flown in your current size range, how did their riser pressure compare?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Casquito 0]

I've done a hundreds of jumps on safires and xfires, but have to agree that the front riser pressure is higher on the xfire at the equivalent size. I thought the safire actually flew better until loaded above 1.6 or so. At 1.7 or 1.8 the xfire started to really fly and felt solid with a little lighter pressure than when lower loaded. That said the safire still had lighter pressure when loaded 1.8 but just didn't feel as solid and confident as the xfire at that loading. Until then though, I'd have to say the safire would be my pick with great openings, great range, great flare, great handling, and actually a pretty good swoop (not really qualified to make that last statement, but it goes pretty far).
I'd demo the canopies first before you disappoint yourself. Or explore the canopy you have to the fullest given its limitations, then downsizing gradually until you fly canopies in sizes readily available then demoing everything out there...

[chachi 0]

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I'm am not the most in shape guy,

honestly, you should treat your physical health in this game just as important as the canopy training you get. swooping is a sport not tolerent of out of shape. just my $.02

[Widgeon 0]

I would have to agree with Canuck on the riser pressure issue as well. I'm talking about the full spectrum of front riser pressure, not just what you feel initially to get the canopy turning. You might feel that the safire is heavier in the beginning of your turn but it doesn't build up at the rate of the crossfire. By the time you pass 180 degrees of rotation and really have it diving HARD, you'd be pretty hard pressed to budge the risers any more to complete the turn.

Enter the harness shift.

A smooth transition from front risering to harness is a very powerful technique an one you'll have to learn once you get a crossfire so why not stick with the safire for now to make things easier? There are ways to overcome the initial riser pressure. If you've tried the brakes technique without any success or noticeable difference, try again: you're doing it wrong. Going from about half brakes to the dive loops has to be done swiftly or the canopy's natural surge forward will negate any attempt on your part to get it diving any more.

If you want a crossfire, get a crossfire. The safire, IMHO will provide you at this level a bigger learning curve. I went through this proggression and learned alot from both canopies, but the crossfire flies like a crossbraced that doesn't dive near as much. But it will get you ready to fly a crossbraced, it's an excellent transition canopy.