New skyball (deploys load if not caught)

[drenaline 0]

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something that we found out when building our spacedarts is that if you get away from a ball shape and go towards more of a bomb or rocket shape.

It can cause a bit of a problem if it hits somebody even without the leds.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[pairashooter 0]

Where can I find a local dealer for the Vladiball?

Chris Scaife

[Aperion 0]

I wouldn't have any problem with shot raining down on me, as long as it's pretty small. I would hope that you will put a warning advising against something like buck shot. Those suckers would hurt. I can guarantee you that small shot wont affect your canopy any more then rain will. If anyone feels otherwise and finds themselves in north eastern Ohio, then I heartily invite you to my local sporting clays range. Shot rains down, like, well, rain.

[BMFin 0]

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Where can I find a local dealer for the Vladiball?

Wasup Chris !

You can get in touch with the founder of vladiball Vladimir Milosavljevic with this email address:

[email protected]

IF you order one, let me know how it works..

[pairashooter 0]

Thanks. I will let you know if I can ever get my hands on one.

Chris Scaife

[pairashooter 0]

Square1.com carries the Vladiball.

Chris Scaife

[SurfFlite 0]

vladiball.org is Vladimir's website. There are also a few youtube videos of vladiballs being used if you do a search.

As for the concern about the "raining" shot. It is the equivalent of shooting a 12 gauge straight up in the air. The shot dissipates (spreads out) and "rains" down harmlessly. It will not poke holes in a canopy or anything else for that matter.

Think about it. You have a ~2" sphere that weighs close to 2 pounds falling to earth at a terminal velocity of ~150-160mph (like a tennis ball sky ball does). That can and has done some damage.

But with a Vladiball, if you don't catch it, it opens and releases many tiny lead or steel spheres, the shot is about .075 in diameter. These tiny spheres immediately decelerate to it's new terminal velocity which is about 7-9mph for a piece of lead shot as opposed to a 2", 2 lb spheres terminal velocity.

They are safe and I believe last months skydiving magazine stated something like "over 15,000 vladiball jumps logged without an incident." or something like that.

We spent many months testing before the 1st ball was sold, most centered around safety.

Kerry

[DSE 3]

I have several Vladiball jumps, and it's a blast. Only issue we've ever had was someone once removed the rubber band before the plane got to altitude. Shot was in a jumpsuit pocket and so we simply didn't play ball on that jump.
It's a lot of fun. It's dangerous if you don't set some rules about who flies from where to where, how to manage if it goes low, etc. Great training aid, too, IMO. Helps set a fall rate, because the ball is consistent. If you want to practice camera before you have enough jumps...go out and shoot the ball. Fly around it, into it, away from it. It's very steady. Catch it at 5-6 grand, deploy, and band/bag it back up.
Great tool, great fun, IMO.

[ozzy13 0]

so what you are saying is that you have to put it back in a bag or rubber band it after you deploy? Just wondering if that's what you meant If so that's a pain in the ass!!

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[DSE 3]

Why is that a pain in the ass? No big thing at all. Just deploy, hold it, then band it. I've banded it before deployment too... Either way, no big deal.

[ozzy13 0]

Why is that? I thought it was designed to open only at a curtain speed and at a certain altitude.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[DSE 3]

It is. Once it hits altitude, it opens. It doesn't stay closed below its preset altitude.
You could just drop it in a jumpsuit pocket before/after deployment if you wanted to.
think about it....it's a simple pressure device. Lack of air pressure keeps it closed. On the ground, it is open. in the air, it closes.
See a Vladiball jump here This was shot last year. there is a deployment at the end of the vid...it doesn't interfere at all. No different than any other object in freefall; has to be dealt with either before or after deployment. You decide which is easier for you.

[bigway 4]

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But the O.P. said they were making people explain their skydiving experience before being able to purchase one of these.

Spaceballs are not for people who do not have enough jumpsto fly camera. Spaceballs are for experienced freefliers and have a very experienced catcher.

Just because they have made this safer does not mean that people with 200 jumps should be up in the air playing with this as a toy does it?

They have improved the safety on this activity in the rare case that these skilled freefliers do not catch the ball, kind of like a cypres. it is a back up. Just becasue the back up has been put in place, does that mean that anyone should now go an start jumping with these?
I thought the only people who were ever allowed to be in charge of catching the spaceball had to have their A.D. license? Now it has a safety back up, this means anyone can play with one and be in charge of catching one? This use to be a huge responsibility? Do we just throw that responsibility out the window now that it has been made with a fail-safe?


To the O.P.
Excellent job guys. The moment i read the original post i clapped for you guys. it sounds like you guys have found a simple solution for something that had the potential to be such a dangerous object. Well done. It is people like you who are evolving our sport and I am well impressed that you have made this 100 times alot safer than it was.

If memory serves correct, a Spaceball is illegal in the UK. Maybe now this trainning aid/activity might be allowed in the UK.

I suggest you contact Jim Harris, Andy Ford and get them to organize testing of this in the UK and i am sure they will be a great help to you guys and your product in the UK and Spain being leaders in Freefly around the UK and having so much to do with up and coming freefliers over there.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[DSE 3]

Read my post carefully.
I can't see how taking a solo jump with a skyball for someone that has 200 or so jumps, wanting to practice relative work and a camera, is a danger to themselves or others. There are those that fly cameras with tandems at 100 or so jumps (we all know it happens) so I fail to understand how a solo jumper, trying to film a skyball at 100 jumps is in danger or a danger.

As far as the UK goes, I don't know their rules regarding skyballs, so if I've made a recommendation in violation of UK rules, spank me and put me away wet.

[bigway 4]

Im not attacking you mate.

I understand because it is safe now that you do not see the harm in it. However, their were very strict rules about these balls on a worldwide standard.

Am I incorrect that to have the responsibility of being the catcher you have had to have a Atmospheric dolphin license? Is that not a worldwide standard?

Rules for these balls were put in place for good reasons. Just because they now have a back up measure does that mean anyone is allowed to jump them and have the responsibility of being the catcher?

Im not talking about your opinion on what is safe and what is not safe, nor am i talking about my opinion, and I am only asking the question about ever since i was in skydiving i was under the impression that people paid thousands to fly to italy and do Olavs Atmospheric dolphin course to become one of many things being able to be a catcher of the ball? This is not a uk thing, this was a worldwide agreement/rule?

I might be wrong, you might also be out of place suggesting that someone with 200 jumps should take this responsibility or even be concentrating on a falling object while jumping with others (not that you used these words). I just feel you have found something you think is safe for people when there have been a very strict code in place for this activity before.
My question is, just because there is an improved safety device on this activity, does that automatically mean the worldwide standard is just forgotten about?

DISCLAIMER: I am not actually asking you the question DSE. I am letitng you know that their are rules with these balls and i dont think you should be suggesting someone with 200 jumps can now buy one and jump with it, unless you know that this is acceptable. I am asking the question in hopes that someone with more experience in this field than you or I have can answer the question.
I understand you know alot about this sport but i do not believe you know much about the rules of catching a spaceball. I do think you have got on board with the excellence of this ball and maybe spoke a bit too soon about who can use it.
Even the O.P. said that they will require people telling their experience before purchase. he said this because of the past rules and safety concerns i am guessing.
It is nothing personal, and not an attack on you, just pointing something out as i feel you may be givng the wrong impression to some of the unexperienced jumpers without knowing the rules and that seeing you are a moderator they make take your word for ruling.
We all get things wrong at some point. Im not saying you are, i do believe you are though. I could be way wrong.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[bigway 4]

added another paragraph to above post incase you missed it.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[bigway 4]

http://www.1olav.com/en/freefly-ad-license/

This is what i am talking about.

My question is, has this standard now been thrown out the window because some guys have invented a AAD feature to this ball?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[DSE 3]

-the vladiball doesn't fall at 155 mph unless someone has found a higher density shot?
-If someone can't jump with a vladiball at 200 jumps, something is seriously flawed with either the rules or their skillset, IMO.
-I happen to feel it's a great training tool for fall rate and flying around. It's a blast to fly with solo and try to keep in frame, and a great way to try out some new tricks and camera angles where you don't want to risk someone else' safety.


BTW, note the date in this thread...? This is a *very* old thread (2002) People have been jumping with them for six years plus now.

Can it be a distraction? Sure!

[bigway 4]

I did not know it was an old thread.
Ah well, I am guessing the product did not take off as much as it could have.

I am suprised i have not seen them everywhere.

DSE- Just for the record, I 100% agree with your opinion on who can use it and the great training tool it would be for people wanting to get into filming tandems. 100% agree.
The reaosn i was asking the question was purely for an answer as i respect rules in skydiving and the reasons they are put in place. Just ebcause i agree with what you have said, in my mind, that was not an acceptable answer for me to think it was okay for my beliefs and your beliefs to become a reality though.

Anyway, old thread, so whatever it is i think seems to be done and dusted. I just read the thread as if it was brand new and wanted to voice my concern over what seemed to be a dissregard for the rules i knew of.
I have not seen a spaceball since 2001. It sparked my curiosity.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[klingeme 0]

Also to be added, "because Olav said so" does not make a AD for skyball jumps a "worldwide rule" it is a good guideline, because of the HUGE responsibility of being a "Ball Master" but I do not know of any (I could be wrong) national skydiving orginization that says "you can't do this if you did not pay Olav".

Mark Klingelhoefer

[bigway 4]

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Also to be added, "because Olav said so" does not make a AD for skyball jumps a "worldwide rule" it is a good guideline, because of the HUGE responsibility of being a "Ball Master" but I do not know of any (I could be wrong) national skydiving orginization that says "you can't do this if you did not pay Olav".

Mark Klingelhoefer

You might notice i was asking the question if the A.D. license was a rule, not actually saying that IT IS because Olav said so.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[klingeme 0]

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Also to be added, "because Olav said so" does not make a AD for skyball jumps a "worldwide rule" it is a good guideline, because of the HUGE responsibility of being a "Ball Master" but I do not know of any (I could be wrong) national skydiving orginization that says "you can't do this if you did not pay Olav".

Mark Klingelhoefer

You might notice i was asking the question if the A.D. license was a rule, not actually saying that IT IS because Olav said so.

I understand and I was just clarifying it. A DZO might have a "Rule" but I don't think there is a "universal" rule or an "Official" rule.

Mark

[hangdiver 1]

I believe olav was given a prototype skyball to jump in 1996 for the first time. It was not his invention and owns no rights in the U.S.


skyball patent

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[LloydDobbler 2]

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Also to be added, "because Olav said so" does not make a AD for skyball jumps a "worldwide rule" it is a good guideline, because of the HUGE responsibility of being a "Ball Master" but I do not know of any (I could be wrong) national skydiving orginization that says "you can't do this if you did not pay Olav".

Mark Klingelhoefer

You might notice i was asking the question if the A.D. license was a rule, not actually saying that IT IS because Olav said so.

Hey, Bigway - To my knowledge, there aren't really any "global rules" in skydiving - there are some common threads, but nothing that you'll find in the regulation books everywhere.

(I know you have more experience than me - I just wanted to put that out there for others to read/consider. Things in your own country aren't always the same for other countries).

Here in the U.S., as far as I know, the "Atmospheric Dolphin license" is more akin to the SCR/SCS - if you have it, people know you can freefly on all axes proficiently. But it's really not a 'license', as it's not issued by any governing body, and therefore has no authority when it comes to rulebooks. It's more of an 'Award'.

You're actually only the second person I've heard ever mention the AD. The first person was a newer jumper who had been reading about it on the internet. I looked into it, thought it sounded interesting...but ridiculous (both in the name, and in the concept). If an official governing body wanted to do that sort of proficiency training, sure, go for it. But an independent (for profit) body declaring themselves the grantor of 'licenses'? It makes sense to me that it's more 'bragging rights' than anything else.

The AD doesn't make a difference in what you can/can't do at most U.S. DZ's, unless the DZO is a good friend of Olav's and therefore requires it (none do, to my knowledge).

Safe use of a skyball also depends on location - it was different at my old DZ, which had uninhabited desert for 5 miles+ in all directions and doesn't rely on GPS spotting, than at Elsinore or Mile-Hi (surrounded by civilization).

And as for it being only for freefly(TM)ing , I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the idea of passing things back and forth been around since close to the start of RW?

Signatures are the new black.

[bigway 4]

Yeah, i am on the same page as you. When i meant a global rule, i di not mean Law. i just meant common practise.

I do think you will find most of the freefliers that represent their nations have their A.D. license as ridiculous as it might sound.

Anyway, the reason i thought it was a global rule of such or global understanding (not regulation) was because i have jumpeed all over the world and back in 2001 every person that was a ball catcher was always the guy with his A.D. license. These were including guys from norway, NZ, aus, UK, Spain etc. It just seemed like there was an 'unspoken ruke' about it all.


Anyway, im wrong and thats cool. i have no problem beign wrong, i did always say i was unsure if my convictions were correct.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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