I got a crossfire2 119!

[Jskydiver22 0]

I love getting new things. Well actually its not brand new, but new to me anyways. Im looking very forward to jumping this canopy.

Is there anything i should know about this canopy, or any advice. I do realize that i moved a little fast for only having 250 jumps, but im gonna take it easy and be under some close watch.

My wingloading is going to be 1.22 : 1. I previously jumped a sabre2 135 and did quite a few hook turns on it.

Man...i cant wait until it gets here. Looking forward to many high hop-n-pops

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[jjiimmyyt 0]

have your insurance upto date?

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[Jskydiver22 0]

gee thanks...

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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have your insurance upto date?

I guess you would know how that flies with your 75 jumps, eh? .

Dude, congrats on your new canopy! Seek knowledge and canopy courses. That's going to be a LOT more hp than your SA2, so keep that in mind. I am always excited when I get new stuff, too. I can barely help but share, but I did not post here when I first got my Sam105, that's for sure (see above comment for reason why).

-A

[Jskydiver22 0]

Thanks for not making another smartass comment like the guy before
I do plan on taking a lot of canopy courses and getting coaching.

Yeah i kind of regreted posting that here. I realized it was moving fast and would probably get some post that i wouldnt care much for. I do however accept constructive criticism. But i dont know how constructive "have your insurance up to date" is.

Thanks for your input

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I have close to 400 jumps on Crossfire2 canopies and as long as you're responsible, smart and don't try to bite off too much when you're learning this canopy, you'll have lots of fun with it.

1) The riser pressure on the Crossfire2 119 will be lighter than on your Sabre2 135 (likely more influenced by the higher wing loading).

2) The Crossfire2 will dive longer than the Sabre2. But it will recover (it's not a cross-braced canopy after all).

3) The bottom end flare will be very powerful on the Crossfire2.

4) The openings should be soft, but get ready for some squirelly openings (the canopy will search for a direction to go when it opens).

There's bound to be more, but that's all I have for now. Seek some canopy control training ASAP. At 245 jumps (and you say you're doing HP landings), I have to wonder if you're self taught or if you've had formal training. Play with your canopy up high and figure out your setup altitude (don't forget to include the canopy's recovery arc plain out in the final altitude). My Crossfire2 was in the 500-600 foot setup range. But yours may differ based on the lower wing loading.

Finally, remember that while swooping rocks, it is unforgiving of many errors that we make and you have the rest of your life to get better. So don't bite off more than you can chew right now. I'm in the same boat you are in terms of jumping a new canopy.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Jskydiver22 0]

Thanks...i do plan on getting some canopy coaching as soon as i can. Our DZ doesnt really have anyone who could coach. But...i do plan on traveling over to another DZ nearby where they do.

As for learning how to swoop...it was kinda half me teaching myself and half me getting advice and coaching.

Im going to completly start over and bring it in nice and slow...then once i get comfortable with that, maybe do a little double front riser approaches... and so on. I also plan on doing a LOT of high alti. hop-n-pops.

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[jjiimmyyt 0]

Angela

I've already responded to the orginal poster via PM as he did to me, but just for public record i was in no way having a go at him, rather the people who would have responded without the use of the cliche tags. i've sent him a PM but seeing as you didn't PM me like he did i've responded here.

Blues

James

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[billvon 2,435]

>Is there anything i should know about this canopy . . .

In general -

it's going to take a lot more finesse than you are used to to keep it going straight in the flare. Practice flying straight and also making very small turns (small!) in the flare to get you used to controlling it.

Do all the usual practice up high (flare turns, flat turns, deep flares etc.) If you're going to start swooping, start with straight in front riser approaches and keep the toggles firmly in your hands.

Make sure it's trimmed correctly, and that the lines haven't shrunk. Check the length differences when you're packing and compare them to the mfr's manual. Also make sure you have 2-4" slack in your brake lines when flying full-flight.

Get ready for more weight-shift issues on opening. During opening, keep your body symmetrical and get on the rear risers quickly. If you consistently turn in one direction on opening, try body steering in the other to counteract.

[AggieDave 6]

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Get ready for more weight-shift issues on opening. During opening, keep your body symmetrical and get on the rear risers quickly. If you consistently turn in one direction on opening, try body steering in the other to counteract.

To add to what BillV wrote, I've found that as long as the canopy isn't trying to spin up, sitting neutral in the harness helps with the openings and heading control. However, with that said, my ass has been saved by being quick on the rears when the canopy was trying to twist up on me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ccowden 0]

Xfire2 can be a sweet canopy. Can also bite ya.

billvon covered it pretty well.

You are stepping it up a notch with canopy choice here. Step BACK a notch on your aggressiveness and inputs close to the ground and for landing. Figure that baby out and work back to where you were slowly AFTER you get the feel for the Xfire2.

Personally, not a canopy I would recommend to a jumper with 245 jumps, but that is just my opinion and in no means a smart ass remark towards you.

Have fun, be safe!

[AggieDave 6]

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Personally, not a canopy I would recommend to a jumper with 245 jumps, but that is just my opinion and in no means a smart ass remark towards you.

I would agree with you as well. I went to a XF2 at around 800 jumps and even then it has proven to be a handful at times. Of course I'm jumping at a much higher wingloading, BUT its still a high performance canopy...one of the highest performing non x-braces out there.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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one of the highest performing non x-braces out there

I'm under the impression that the Crossfire2 and Katana are the two top HP canopies out there which are not cross-braced. I loved my old Crossfire2. But my new canopy is well ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Jskydiver22 0]

Yeah, thats really what i plan on doing...i want to figure the flight characteristics first and get comfortable flying it...then start to working with front riser landings.

I understand where your coming from in saying that you wouldnt recomend it to me. Ive talked with 3 people (all with over 1000 jumps) that have watched me all throughout my skydiving career that feel that i can handle it. I understand also that it can bite me. Im going to be extreemly careful with it.

Thank you all for your input.

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[ianmdrennan 2]

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but im gonna take it easy and be under some close watch.

And

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As for learning how to swoop...it was kinda half me teaching myself and half me getting advice and coaching.

And

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Ive talked with 3 people (all with over 1000 jumps)

Contradictory statements and my guess is that in you're in over your head. For the record I've known plenty of people with well over 1000 jumps who've put people on canopies that they weren't ready for and broke themselves. If 3 people are saying what you want to hear and 20 are saying what you don't want to hear, my guess is you're going to listen to those 3.

Still you've made your choice. It's not an unsurvivable one but if you're "learning to swoop" you'd have been fine (and better off) under your original choice.

Be careful. Think carefully. Be AHEAD of the canopy. Know where you're going, know where others are going and make sure you can keep up with the quickly changing environment.

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Im going to be extreemly careful with it.

And these are FAMOUS last words, yet I hear them often. Don't "wait to get coaching"...You could afford the 1500+ dollar canopy, you can afford to fly somewhere for coaching. Doing it now will make you a better pilot.

Good luck.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[blitzkrieg 0]

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that have watched me all throughout my skydiving career that feel that i can handle it.

this is partially why i never posted questions like this when i was starting out. i only listened to people who knew me and that i trusted. there's always someone out there to tell you what you don't want to hear. while what everyone here is saying is right... it's still ultimately up to you.
i don't know you, but i don't doubt for a minute that you can "handle" it. i only had about 150 jumps when i started jumping my first eliptical at a WL of 1.5-1.6. i handled it fine. it's when you think you know the canopy enough after even 100 jumps that you start pushing it more and more when maybe you don't. just be careful, get the fast and crazy stuff out of your system up high, take it in easy down low, even after you "think" you know the canopy. trust yourself first, not what others say they think you can do. only you will know what still intimidates you.
just my .02

edited to add: currency is more key than jump #s in my opinion. back then i was also doing an average 50jumps a week.

[Jskydiver22 0]

When i said i was half teaching myself that was the old canopy that i had. On this one, i dont plan on teaching myself at all. I already have a plan to go and get some canopy coaching.

Im from a small DZ...and those 3 people are the most experienced there...one is my mom, one is my step-dad, and the other is my step dads best friend.

Im getting coaching for sure.

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[PhreeZone 15]

Well, just a few DZ's away I know that at least 2 of them had Scott Miller up for training last year and Scott just sent out an invite for events for this year.

Talk to Scott about coming up to your DZ for a weekend and teaching the entire DZ. Its really not that expensive and its a hell of a lot cheaper then a hospital trip

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[gus 1]

I downsized from a Sabre2 to Crossfire2, here's what I found:

Higher front riser pressure
Much more divey coming out of toggle and riser turns
More oversteer coming out of turns
Better openings
Flare 'sweetspot' is lower in the toggle stroke
Significantly higher descent rate

Some of those differences are down to the step up in wingloading but the Crossfire2 I demoed was same size as my old Sabre2 and most of it stills holds. The Crossfire2 demands your attention, make sure you give it.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[jeiber 0]

That's not an overly aggressive wing loading for your number of jumps if you ask me, but I don't know your skill level, so I'll leave it at....

Be careful (duh!), and have fun!
Don't take the responses too personally - it's easy to misunderstand 'tone of voice' on here. I don't think he meant any real harm. Besides, you have to feel sorry for those who's only sense of power in life comes from slamming others on a skydiving message board!

Jeff

edited for PC

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[ccowden 0]

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Besides, you have to feel sorry for those who's only sense of power in life comes from slamming others on a skydiving message board!

Dude, you are not going to make many friends making statements like this. Not to mention, YOU are the one "slamming" someone. Ian was offering his advice and insight, just like anyone else, and he is entitled to it. Ian knows ALOT about canopy flight and is someone I look up to very much in his efforts to do it the right way and to teach others. He has seen the effects of someone getting in over their heads. But you are right, we should just sit back and not say anything if we think someone might be moving too fast.

This isn't about personal attacks, this is about offering advice and stating our opinions that 245 jumps is too soon to be on a Crossfire2. I personally don't think it matters what the wingloading is. It is a high performance canopy and is the type of canopy that should not be used at this stage. With 245 jumps, you may be a good pilot, but you certainly have not done enough landings on a previous, less performance canopy to be ready to know what to expect in all situations. You need more experience with canopies, plain and simple.

I have been there. I hurt myself on jump 999 doing a simple 180 front riser to landing, because I got behind the 8 ball and wasn't prepared to know what was happening. Looking back now, I can see exactly where things started to go wrong, but at the time, my experience level wasn't enough to see it. And let me tell ya, I was as confident as anyone of my abilities and NO ONE would have said I couldn't handle myself. Luckily, that was on a Sabre 150 and I got away with it. Had it been on a Stiletto, Vengeance, or Crossfire, I am not so sure.

I watched my best friend and teammate die right in front of me on a landing. I now know where he went wrong. He had over 1,000 jumps and had jumped a Crossfire2 loaded at about 1.8 for 600 jumps prior. He was a great canopy pilot, smart, and respected things greatly. Then he went to a Velocity loaded at about 1.9. Again, no one would have said he couln't handle himself under this canopy. But on one particular day, we did a hop n pop and with some wind and traffic complications, he found himself having to fly his approach in a manner that he wasn't used to. He got behind the 8 ball with a canopy that doesn't allow it, just like the Crossfire2, and he never jumped again.

Now, through my own experience, and through learning all these things over time, I can tell people about these types of things so tha they might learn from it and be more prepared for what to expect. If they don't listen, fine. But I will be damned if I am going to sit back and not say anything at all!

So, in my opinion, a Crossfire2 is a terrible choice for someone with 245 jumps OR someone with any amount of jumps at this same stage of learning canopy flight. Regardless of wingloading.

I have learned by mistakes. I have learned by seeing others make mistakes. I will do everything I can so that others might not make those same mistakes. A Crossfire2 at 245 jumps is a mistake. Can he get away with it? Sure. And I hope he does. I don't want to see anyone get hurt.

[Jskydiver22 0]

I dont think he was slamming ian. I didnt feel like ian was slamming me either. I think he was refering to the second comment made in this post.

Thanks for your adivice. I dont know ian rather than off dropzone.com but I know hes a great canopy pilot and i respected his advice and took it into consideration.

Maybe you just took that post wrong?
Once again...thanks for the advice

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[ccowden 0]

If his comment wasn't directed at Ian, whch is very possible, I apologize. And I agree, the second post in this thread was pretty lame with nothing constructive at all. I don't feel that this is the place to make jokes.

That said,atleast it allowed me to get some more thoughts/advice/comments out on the subject.

[Brains 2]

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That said,atleast it allowed me to get some more thoughts/advice/comments out on the subject.

I personally thought it was well worth the read

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[Darius11 12]

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That said,atleast it allowed me to get some more thoughts/advice/comments out on the subject.

I personally thought it was well worth the read

I agree

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain