Best Performance wingloading....

[vdschoor 0]

I have a question about wingloading.

Currently I jump a Sabre2 150 loaded at about 1.6 and I am about to downsize to a Stiletto 135, which will be loaded around 1.77

One of the very experienced canopy pilots at my dropzone, that I have very high respect for mentioned I might be better off on my Sabre2 150 if I want distance out of my swoops, cause I would be "overloading" the Stiletto..
I would like some more feedback on this.. what are the "optimal" loadings for regular 9 cell or eliptical 9 cell canopies? Are there numbers for this out there?

I am not trying to get "another answer" from you guys, the instructor does not have a problem with me going to a ST135, but he was looking at it from a performance standpoint....

Any information would be highly apreciated

Iwan

[davelepka 4]

What do you want to do with your canopy?

Regardless, I would think that difference in disatnce between the two (if any) would be offset by variations of the pilot. If you're not flying the exact same approach every time, and if you're not swooping a measured course for points, the distance angle seems moot.

I think the Stiletto would be more fun, go faster, glide further, carve better, and open better. You could jump a 120 for that matter without 'overloading' it. I've got 1000's of jumps on a Stiletto at 2 to 1, and always thought is was great.

[AggieDave 6]

I noticed a degrading slope in performance on Sabre2s and Stilettos when I put them above 1.7:1 (my wingloading on a 170). I jumped some 150s and it was kind of neat, they were faster, but didn't seem to "perform" as well. However, I know some folks have loaded stlettos up to 2.1 and such and put a shitload of jumps on them...

Demo one, see if you like it. That's the only thing that's going to matter is if you like it or not (and that you're safe, obviously).

If you want a good hoot, load a spectre at 1.9:1...it flies like a damned concrete block at that winglaoding.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[vdschoor 0]

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What do you want to do with your canopy?

Number 1: have fun with it..
But, since I fly a lot of camera I also need a reliable canopy, while still have fun with it.
I love higher performance landings (notice the higher.. not high, since I am not shit hot yet.. I wouldn't call them high performance yet)

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Regardless, I would think that difference in disatnce between the two (if any) would be offset by variations of the pilot. If you're not flying the exact same approach every time, and if you're not swooping a measured course for points, the distance angle seems moot.

I don't know if that is a moot thing, I love beeing able to shoot across the landing area on my landings, and while speed is fun.. I get more reward out of a long swoop, note that I am not competing but this is all for the thrill factor.

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I think the Stiletto would be more fun, go faster, glide further, carve better, and open better. You could jump a 120 for that matter without 'overloading' it. I've got 1000's of jumps on a Stiletto at 2 to 1, and always thought is was great.

The more fun factor.. Yes, the Stiletto is an extremely fun canopy to fly, I've jumped the 135 for about a month and a half end of last year and I loved it..
I also demoed the Sabre2 135, and I must say that canopy at that wingloading is just as much fun to fly as the Stiletto, and I like the recovery arc better.. (I find it's longer, although not much on the Sabre2)

The reason I broke down and chose Stiletto over the Sabre2 is mainly money.. I have two rigs and would like similar canopies in borth.. Sabre2s are a lot more expensive (used) than Stilettos..

Iwan

[vdschoor 0]

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I noticed a degrading slope in performance on Sabre2s and Stilettos when I put them above 1.7:1 (my wingloading on a 170). I jumped some 150s and it was kind of neat, they were faster, but didn't seem to "perform" as well. However, I know some folks have loaded stlettos up to 2.1 and such and put a shitload of jumps on them...

That is EXACTLY what my instructor said too.. 1.6 is about the sweet spot for these canopies, if you start loading them much higher, you lose performance..
Maybe I'll fly another season on my Sabre2 150s.. decisions decisions.. ha ha..

I have demoed them all though, the Stiletto 150, Stiletto 135 and the Sabre2 135..

I must say.. if I had the money right now, I'd call PD and get me two Sabre2 135s...

Iwan

[ianmdrennan 2]

It really is a pity the Katana's not available in bigger sizes yet. Sounds like it'd be a good fit for where you want to go.

I'm assuming you're staying with PD and other canopies are not an option?

Blues,
Ian
edit: I'd choose the Sabre2 135 over the Stiletto. I like the characteristics of the newer canopies more. Personal opinion of course.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[vdschoor 0]

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It really is a pity the Katana's not available in bigger sizes yet. Sounds like it'd be a good fit for where you want to go.

I'm assuming you're staying with PD and other canopies are not an option?

Other canopies are an option, but at this point I can not afford a new one. The Crossfire2 is one of the canopies I'd be interested in as well.
I am a big PD fan though.

I agree on the Katana statement, it would be an option for me to go that route if it were available in a 135.

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Blues,
Ian
edit: I'd choose the Sabre2 135 over the Stiletto. I like the characteristics of the newer canopies more. Personal opinion of course.

Same here.. I do like the Sabre2 135 a LOT, but like I said.. the used prices are a bit out of my range right now.. Maybe at the end of the summer..

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I am a big PD fan though.

Heh, likewise.

Besides the fun factor, is there any reason you can't hold off on the downsize a bit till you've got some cash to get exactly what you want?

Seems like a better alternative than settling for something you'd rather not have.

Tough choices I know. Not sure what I'd do in the same situation
Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[cheneyneel 0]

dude my opinion might not mean much but I get so much more out of a Sabre2 120 than I do a Stilletto 120.. I mean almost 25 to 35 yards more.. the dives on the Sabre2 are just more advanced by technology to have the ability to be pushed harder for more than the Stilleto...
I would stay with the Sabre2 but smaller until you go to something more like the Katana, if you are staying PD.. I think that the Stilleto will put the abilities of your canopy behind the newer designs of canopies and schools of thought on HP landings out there.. But Stilletos are cheap.. I will give them that..

[ianmdrennan 2]

I agree, I'd stay on the Sabre2 myself and save up for the size Sabre2 I wanted.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[hookitt 0]

Knowing Iwan, I'd suggest getting that cheap stiletto for the season and save up for a Velocity.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[vdschoor 0]

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Knowing Iwan, I'd suggest getting that cheap stiletto for the season and save up for a Velocity.

Yeah talk about a chunk out of the budget there!! ha ha..
Decisions decisions.. I really apreciate all your feedback, I will go back to my room and think about it for now..
I'll let you know what's going to happen!

Iwan

[Dazzle 0]

You should be able to get a Stiletto as a zero cost swap for a Sabre2 150 and then wait it out for the Katana. Some noise out of pd about where they are with the 135 and 150 would be nice though

[BrianSGermain 1]

I thing there is something missing from this discussion. In order to advise someone of the right size canopy, we need to know several details:

1) Total Number of Jumps
2) Number of Jumps in the last year
3) Current canopy and size
4) Type of approach
5) Field elevation of drop zone
6) Comfort level with current canopy
7) Time in sport
8) Visual Accuity
9) Psychological Profile
10) Star sign

There is more to downsizing than a number.
+

Instructional Videos:www.AdventureWisdom.com
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com

[AggieDave 6]

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I thing there is something missing from this discussion. In order to advise someone of the right size canopy, we need to know several details:

1) Total Number of Jumps
2) Number of Jumps in the last year
3) Current canopy and size
4) Type of approach
5) Field elevation of drop zone
6) Comfort level with current canopy
7) Time in sport
8) Visual Accuity
9) Psychological Profile
10) Star sign

Brian,

You left out an important question...

11) Penis size.


For some reason small canopies with some people remind me of some folks with sports cars...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[D22369 0]

You left out an important question...

11) Penis size.
***


Dave you left out the most important question....

12) does this individuals balls "clank" when he walks

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[diablopilot 2]

I personaly found the Stiletto to be at it's optimum performance at 1.8 or so. That was on 120's for me.

Are you ready to deal with that kind of loading and the baggage along with it?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[garywainwright 0]

I found performance tailing off above 1.8. (1300 jumps on a 135 at 1.7 - 100 jumps on a 120 at 1.9)
Stilettos are great but they have such a short recovery arc that can make it tough when you switch to something else (i did a training camp doing back to backs with a Xaos21-108, and a stiletto 120)
Have fun!

gary

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[vdschoor 0]

Quote

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I thing there is something missing from this discussion. In order to advise someone of the right size canopy, we need to know several details:

1) Total Number of Jumps

999

2) Number of Jumps in the last year

520

3) Current canopy and size

Sabre2 150, I have demoed a Sabre2 135, Stiletto 135 and a Stiletto 150 as well

4) Type of approach

90-180 left hand pattern front riser approaches

5) Field elevation of drop zone

35ft I believe

6) Comfort level with current canopy

On a scale of 1-10 (10 = most comfortable)
9.99999

7) Time in sport

7.5 years

8) Visual Accuity
20/20

9) Psychological Profile
My doctor says I am doing better lately..

10) Star sign
Virgo

Brian,

You left out an important question...

11) Penis size.

For some reason small canopies with some people remind me of some folks with sports cars...

I don't need to drive a sports car, I drive a Ford Focus, no compensation needed.

12) does this individuals balls "clank" when he walks
Nope, I wear boxer briefs, they keep my stuff in place so they don't clank.


Does this help?

[namdrib 0]

Gonna have to comment on this. Brian brought up a very valid point, those are things that must be discussed. In my experience, I have over a 1000 jumps with a Stiletto loaded at 2:1 and it was great. I fly camera and wingsuit and this puppy never let me down. As far as the swoops, not sure if I just had dialed this canopy in, but I can swoop the hell out of this canopy. I have jumped Crossfire's, Xaos', and Sabre's since. The Stiletto is the one that gives me the best Carve. But there again, probably cause I am used to it. I have since moved on to the crossbraced Xaos and am in love again. I know that there are a lot of people that swear by PD, I am one of them, but beginning to swear by Xaos as well.
What does this all boil down to: DEMO DEMO DEMO!!! Can never go wrong. Just know that every canopy is different, take it conservative at first, learn the damn thing, then tweak the hell out of it.

Unknowing attempting to take out all 4 wheeled vehicles remotely close to the landing area!

[LouDiamond 1]

Well if you look at what the guys who are winning are flying at you will see many of them are in agreement that 2.0-2.2+/- is the max one wants to go and still have the best performance. YMMV of course as you're looking to survive with a camera on your head and have a fun landing. Demoing and finding out what works for you is the best bet. If I understood you correctly, I don't think your overly concerned with distance as much as you are with having a fun zippy landing.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[jeiber 0]

I have a Sabre2 190 loaded at about 1.5, and absolutely love it. I've jumped a friend's Stiletto 170 loading it at almost 1.7, and as far as swooping goes, I'll take my Sabre2 any day, simply because the recovery arc is much longer, and riser pressure is much lower. I just don't like starting swoops that low to the ground, but that's just my personal preference - I know many who don't mind it.

One thing I really like about the Stiletto is the responsiveness of the toggles. It is so much fun to fly! I only have a handful of jumps on it, so looking at the horizon over the tail of the canopy is still such a cool sight to me.

As others are commenting, I too wish the Katana were available in larger sizes. I'm going with a used Vengeance for the time being....

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[blitzkrieg 0]

i have several hundred jumps on a stiletto 120 loaded at about 1.8. for that canopy i think that's about the best performance you can get out of it. it's a great canopy, but old technology. like others were saying, if PD is your thing, i think the katana would perform better under the higher wing loads. but a step down like that would be dramatic.

personally, i'll stay away from the leg breaking openings.

just my .02, which is probably worth less where you live.

[Dutton 0]

The "optimal wingloading" on any canopy is that which makes you look the most in control. Don't be in a big hurry to downsize! The wingloadings being tossed around here are very high considering no one really knows how much experience you have. I have over 4,000 jumps and I have been jumping for 14 years. I put over 2,500 jumps on a St 97 (Its cool to wear out a canopy) and I now jump a Sabre2 107. I could easily handle a Velocity, or a Katana, but I like jumping a canopy that is conservative. You know what though, I can consistently out-swoop most of the jumpers on my DZ who use x-braced canopies. Its not how big it is, but whether or not you know how to use it.